ECT The Sovereignty of God?

[Cross Reference]

Question: Why God could not have simply redeemed man. How come? Why Jesus?

 

[Tigger 2]

Question: Why God could not have simply redeemed man. How come? Why Jesus?

God cannot die. Instead, a heavenly spirit person who could come to earth as a perfect human (the firstborn Son) made the sacrifice as a repayment of what man had lost.

 

[Cross Reference]

God cannot die. Instead, a heavenly spirit person who could come to earth as a perfect human (the firstborn Son) made the sacrifice as a repayment of what man had lost.

So yu believe that addresses question of God being sovereign and perhaps just choosing a way to get a job done . . perhaps passing the buck?

 

[Tigger 2]

So yu believe that addresses question of God being sovereign and perhaps just choosing a way to get a job done . . perhaps passing the buck?

Are you suggesting that the Almighty God, the Father of all creation, is required to redeem an extremely tiny piece of His own creation with His own life (if it were possible to do so)?

 

[Cross Reference]

Are you suggesting that the Almighty God, the Father of all creation, is required to redeem an extremely tiny piece of His own creation with His own life (if it were possible to do so)?

I suggested nothing of the sort. I did say He that if He was sovereign then, why Jesus?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Question: Why God could not have simply redeemed man. How come? Why Jesus?

Man is redeemed through hearing Christ/ the Spirit, and believing.

If you believe the Light of GOD then you abide by It. To not is to doubt and to waver and to love the material more than the Spirit.

Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of all. And because of that; we all have the potential to find/ hear, and believe, and we have an example to go by in the Way.

Jesus didn't question the will of GOD as He knew GOD was Truth and that the sake of man did depend on Him to show the way to GOD.

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[Faither]

Man is redeemed through hearing Christ/ the Spirit, and believing.

If you believe the Light of GOD then you abide by It. To not is to doubt and to waver and to love the material more than the Spirit.

Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of all. And because of that; we all have the potential to find/ hear, and believe, and we have an example to go by in the Way.

Jesus didn't question the will of GOD as He knew GOD was Truth and that the sake of man did depend on Him to show the way to GOD.

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Hi pops , i'm interested in hearing your testimony , any chance you'd share that ? I'll always respect it no matter what .

 

[popsthebuilder]

Sorry

 

[Faither]

I tried to delete some messages and sent it to you privately to no avail.

I will post it here and then delete it shortly after because there is already a copy of it on this board website and I do not want to bring attention to myself.

I hope you understand.

Please feel free to ask me anything.

peace

(This is a copy that I wrote to someone who had inquiries about two years ago I guess.

Please ask anything and give honest opinion.

Okay. A little back ground is in order I suppose.

From early childhood up until what happened I was an atheist or agnostic. I remember thinking at a young age that there couldn't be a God because pain and suffering seemed to be observable everywhere. At some point I did consider the Sun to be a higher power of sorts as no life that I knew of could live without it. I remember asking my father once if he thought there was a God. After careful consideration he replied that he did not know. I lived with my mom. We didn't go to church much; maybe a handful of times in early childhood. She wasn't really spiritual or religious that I could tell. I do recall my grandmother being a believer because at family gatherings she would insist that someone said grace or have thanks to God. Anyway, I went through life in relative solitude, always being somewhat odd or different I guess. At an early age I recognized pain as an electronic signal of sorts. In doing so I was able to train myself to endure quite a bit of it. I turned myself off emotionally somehow, letting little really affect me. I began to realize that anger and pain could be channeled and used as strength and motivation. Not being spiritual in any way, I guess I didn't realize the ramifications this could have later.

Fast forward to mid twenties. All lessons I learned the hard way, taking no advice from any, finding out for myself. Personal failure and disappointment on a constant level made me self loathing. Severe drug addiction made it worse. Though I had strength I couldn't stop by my own will seemingly. I hated pretty much everything, but most of all, myself. I awoke angry and fell asleep angry for years, even before serious drug addiction. I fought myself for a couple of years trying to change the direction I was witnessing myself going. I used to park at graveyards and contemplate death. I fervently wished I had the strength to kill myself, and hated myself that much more for being too cowardly to go through with it. Throughout my life, but mostly throughout my addiction, I had a lot of time to contemplate things, and view my own actions or the lack there of retrospectively. Somewhere in the midst of all this I recall sincerely swallowing my misplaced pride which was all but gone already, and asking for help. I pleaded to GOD, Christ, Jesus, whatever. I did this once. I realized that regardless of what I thought and how strong I thought I was, I couldn't seem to be able to make the change for better happen. Down, at my lowest point, I recall seeing what most likely would have been explained away by anyone(including myself) as a smudge on a window. There was light coming through. Regardless, the smudge had the vague form of an Angel. I don't know exactly why, but seeing that gave me an inkling of hope. I was still severely addicted though I had lost almost everything I had ever cared about. A woman I had a child with had taken me in at this point and the three of us were struggling pretty bad. She told me she was moving back home and said I could come. I did. I vaguely recall seeing something again when we moved. I don't even remember what it was, but I do remember that it reminded me of what I had seen on the window, and again that misplaced hope surfaced. Months went by. Her, my son, and myself moved in together in her home town. I had not used since we moved. I made a trip back home and used for one night. I returned and went back to not using. Throughout this time I still had all the same hate and anger that I had before. Though I was doing better as far as my drug addiction was concerned, she wasn't really trying to change. Our son was in the middle. This and other things brought great tention on our relationship. I went to jail for a somewhat unrelated reason. I got out about a month later I guess. When I returned home with her and my son I realized she had been doing some really messed up things while I was gone. I was so worried for the upbringing of my son that I justified killing her and going to prison, because I thought my son would be better off. I chased her for about a half an hour, methodically. She couldn't leave because I had her car keys. For those minutes I did intent to take her life with my hands. Thankfully, I eventually have her her keys and she left.

Okay, so that was a lot of back story. Sorry if it bored you. I've never went into that much detail about it but it seemed necessary to convey the state of mind I was in.

I'm not sure if it was the next day or a couple of days later.

I'm driving home from work on a usual road. Listening to the radio as I drive. The radio fades out to silence. This never happened before. I adjust the station and volume to no avail whatsoever...silence. Suddenly and inexplicably I feel this great weight, this huge burden lifted from me. My anger, pain, and hatred are removed all at once. I am overwhelmed with joy as tears flow freely from my eyes( something that previously just didn't really happen). I am utterly and wholly grateful and thank GOD. Many things begin to come into my mind. Things I never even fathomed. I am shown, in my mind, how GOD was with me through all things I had endured. I was shown how every step in my life had been for a reason and that GOD had been ever present through it all regardless of my obliviousness to it. I was shown how GOD was there before my conception and through my troubled birth. I was shown that I was here for a reason and that all I had been through was too, for a reason. Many understandings and revelations took place. Then things stopped coming into my mind. An utter peace never thought possible was with me. A joyous expectation of life filled me. The radio fades back in to the same station and volume it had been at. I felt the strong edge to write down what had taken place. When I got home, I found the nearest utensils at hand and began writing. I had intended to describe the happenings that had taken place. What I wrote is more of some sort of moral code. This all happened when I was thirty in 2011. I never really looked at those writings again for about four years. At which time I started reading the bible. For some reason I don't recall I found this invoice book that I had written in years before. When I read it it was as if it had been taken out of the bible or something because of the nature of the written material.

I had never read the bible or really even heard it prior to writing what I wrote.


In the past couple of years other things have happened and changes have taken place. But that is a different story I suppose. Regardless of what happens to me for whatever reasons, I will never forget the miraculous event that took place in my life by the grace and mercy of GOD.
All praise and thanks is to GOD.)






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Thanks Pops . Keep going , i don't think your epistle is finished yet !

 

[popsthebuilder]

Thanks Pops . Keep going , i don't think your epistle is finished yet !

How very warm and kind on this dreadful day.

Thank you so very much for helping me to refocus on what matters.

peace friend.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[marhig]

I tried to delete some messages and sent it to you privately to no avail.

I will post it here and then delete it shortly after because there is already a copy of it on this board website and I do not want to bring attention to myself.

I hope you understand.

Please feel free to ask me anything.

peace

(This is a copy that I wrote to someone who had inquiries about two years ago I guess.

Please ask anything and give honest opinion.

Okay. A little back ground is in order I suppose.

From early childhood up until what happened I was an atheist or agnostic. I remember thinking at a young age that there couldn't be a God because pain and suffering seemed to be observable everywhere. At some point I did consider the Sun to be a higher power of sorts as no life that I knew of could live without it. I remember asking my father once if he thought there was a God. After careful consideration he replied that he did not know. I lived with my mom. We didn't go to church much; maybe a handful of times in early childhood. She wasn't really spiritual or religious that I could tell. I do recall my grandmother being a believer because at family gatherings she would insist that someone said grace or have thanks to God. Anyway, I went through life in relative solitude, always being somewhat odd or different I guess. At an early age I recognized pain as an electronic signal of sorts. In doing so I was able to train myself to endure quite a bit of it. I turned myself off emotionally somehow, letting little really affect me. I began to realize that anger and pain could be channeled and used as strength and motivation. Not being spiritual in any way, I guess I didn't realize the ramifications this could have later.

Fast forward to mid twenties. All lessons I learned the hard way, taking no advice from any, finding out for myself. Personal failure and disappointment on a constant level made me self loathing. Severe drug addiction made it worse. Though I had strength I couldn't stop by my own will seemingly. I hated pretty much everything, but most of all, myself. I awoke angry and fell asleep angry for years, even before serious drug addiction. I fought myself for a couple of years trying to change the direction I was witnessing myself going. I used to park at graveyards and contemplate death. I fervently wished I had the strength to kill myself, and hated myself that much more for being too cowardly to go through with it. Throughout my life, but mostly throughout my addiction, I had a lot of time to contemplate things, and view my own actions or the lack there of retrospectively. Somewhere in the midst of all this I recall sincerely swallowing my misplaced pride which was all but gone already, and asking for help. I pleaded to GOD, Christ, Jesus, whatever. I did this once. I realized that regardless of what I thought and how strong I thought I was, I couldn't seem to be able to make the change for better happen. Down, at my lowest point, I recall seeing what most likely would have been explained away by anyone(including myself) as a smudge on a window. There was light coming through. Regardless, the smudge had the vague form of an Angel. I don't know exactly why, but seeing that gave me an inkling of hope. I was still severely addicted though I had lost almost everything I had ever cared about. A woman I had a child with had taken me in at this point and the three of us were struggling pretty bad. She told me she was moving back home and said I could come. I did. I vaguely recall seeing something again when we moved. I don't even remember what it was, but I do remember that it reminded me of what I had seen on the window, and again that misplaced hope surfaced. Months went by. Her, my son, and myself moved in together in her home town. I had not used since we moved. I made a trip back home and used for one night. I returned and went back to not using. Throughout this time I still had all the same hate and anger that I had before. Though I was doing better as far as my drug addiction was concerned, she wasn't really trying to change. Our son was in the middle. This and other things brought great tention on our relationship. I went to jail for a somewhat unrelated reason. I got out about a month later I guess. When I returned home with her and my son I realized she had been doing some really messed up things while I was gone. I was so worried for the upbringing of my son that I justified killing her and going to prison, because I thought my son would be better off. I chased her for about a half an hour, methodically. She couldn't leave because I had her car keys. For those minutes I did intent to take her life with my hands. Thankfully, I eventually have her her keys and she left.

Okay, so that was a lot of back story. Sorry if it bored you. I've never went into that much detail about it but it seemed necessary to convey the state of mind I was in.

I'm not sure if it was the next day or a couple of days later.

I'm driving home from work on a usual road. Listening to the radio as I drive. The radio fades out to silence. This never happened before. I adjust the station and volume to no avail whatsoever...silence. Suddenly and inexplicably I feel this great weight, this huge burden lifted from me. My anger, pain, and hatred are removed all at once. I am overwhelmed with joy as tears flow freely from my eyes( something that previously just didn't really happen). I am utterly and wholly grateful and thank GOD. Many things begin to come into my mind. Things I never even fathomed. I am shown, in my mind, how GOD was with me through all things I had endured. I was shown how every step in my life had been for a reason and that GOD had been ever present through it all regardless of my obliviousness to it. I was shown how GOD was there before my conception and through my troubled birth. I was shown that I was here for a reason and that all I had been through was too, for a reason. Many understandings and revelations took place. Then things stopped coming into my mind. An utter peace never thought possible was with me. A joyous expectation of life filled me. The radio fades back in to the same station and volume it had been at. I felt the strong edge to write down what had taken place. When I got home, I found the nearest utensils at hand and began writing. I had intended to describe the happenings that had taken place. What I wrote is more of some sort of moral code. This all happened when I was thirty in 2011. I never really looked at those writings again for about four years. At which time I started reading the bible. For some reason I don't recall I found this invoice book that I had written in years before. When I read it it was as if it had been taken out of the bible or something because of the nature of the written material.

I had never read the bible or really even heard it prior to writing what I wrote.


In the past couple of years other things have happened and changes have taken place. But that is a different story I suppose. Regardless of what happens to me for whatever reasons, I will never forget the miraculous event that took place in my life by the grace and mercy of GOD.
All praise and thanks is to GOD.)






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I went through a lot of suffering too, I was bullied as a child because I was in a school where there were many wealthy children, but we didn't have much money, so I was bullied because I was poor and I was bullied from a very young age, (although my mum was a brilliant mum, she went without to look after us and we were always fed and clothed and she loved us, we just didn't have much in a material way), and I then went through ten years of hell as an adult, but I did believe in God and I used to pray hard. Then one day my whole life changed and I was taken out of the situation I was in, then over time many things happened to me and I started to see God clearly and know him. God showed me in my heart that he was there, and I know he had heard my prayers. I too at one time in my life thought that if I took my life then the pain and suffering would stop, but then I thought of my children and my mother and I knew it was wrong to do so before God, so carried on through it. I went through unbelievable suffering, but now I know that it's something I had to be bare, and I now have more empathy for others than I think I would have had if I hadn't been through all that, and because I've been through suffering and I've been brought low, I'm now grateful just to have a roof over my head, food and drink and to get by every day, and I take each day as it comes, but most importantly I'm blessed with God in my heart and I thank him always for blessing me and for even looking at me.

I believe that we go through suffering for a reason, and when we do God strengthens us if we have true faith. We will all suffer in this lifetime, satan is the prince of this world so we will suffer at his hands, especially if we get involved in the things of the world, but I've learned that it is better to suffer for well doing for Christs sake and live by the will of God, than to suffer at the hands of satan by living by the will of the flesh, because without God, we will just go deeper and deeper into hell.

I'm not interested in building up in the world anymore, or in wealth, politics, worldly interests etc. I'm only interested in God and sharing his word, and I hope one day that my family all believe, thankfully my husband believes as I do, so does my mum and we have a little house meetings that we go to and read the Bible and talk about the things of God, (I think you would love it pops), and every time I go I get a lift in my heart, I love hearing the things of God

 

[popsthebuilder]

I went through a lot of suffering too, I was bullied as a child because I was in a school where there were many wealthy children, but we didn't have much money, so I was bullied because I was poor and I was bullied from a very young age, (although my mum was a brilliant mum, she went without to look after us and we were always fed and clothed and she loved us, we just didn't have much in a material way), and I then went through ten years of hell as an adult, but I did believe in God and I used to pray hard. Then one day my whole life changed and I was taken out of the situation I was in, then over time many things happened to me and I started to see God clearly and know him. God showed me in my heart that he was there, and I know he had heard my prayers. I too at one time in my life thought that if I took my life then the pain and suffering would stop, but then I thought of my children and my mother and I knew it was wrong to do so before God, so carried on through it. I went through unbelievable suffering, but now I know that it's something I had to be bare, and I now have more empathy for others than I think I would have had if I hadn't been through all that, and because I've been through suffering and I've been brought low, I'm now grateful just to have a roof over my head, food and drink and to get by every day, and I take each day as it comes, but most importantly I'm blessed with God in my heart and I thank him always for blessing me and for even looking at me.

I believe that we go through suffering for a reason, and when we do God strengthens us if we have true faith. We will all suffer in this lifetime, satan is the prince of this world so we will suffer at his hands, especially if we get involved in the things of the world, but I've learned that it is better to suffer for well doing for Christs sake and live by the will of God, than to suffer at the hands of satan by living by the will of the flesh, because without God, we will just go deeper and deeper into hell.

I'm not interested in building up in the world anymore, or in wealth, politics, worldly interests etc. I'm only interested in God and sharing his word, and I hope one day that my family all believe, thankfully my husband believes as I do, so does my mum and we have a little house meetings that we go to and read the Bible and talk about the things of God, (I think you would love it pops), and every time I go I get a lift in my heart, I love hearing the things of God

I no doubt would love it very much dear sister.

I know we haven't spoken much lately but am glad that I am able to witness the truth reflected through your words.

peace sister

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[marhig]

I no doubt would love it very much dear sister.

I know we haven't spoken much lately but am glad that I am able to witness the truth reflected through your words.

peace sister

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I think I need to read other threads, I don't get much time on here, so I don't read everything. But I enjoy reading your posts too, and even if there are things we don't always agree on, (which isn't often) we don't insult one another. I believe it's right to battle for the truth, but some here attack eachother personally and say things that are unnecessary which is a shame. Anyway, I'll have to get reading a few more threads and posts

 

[Cross Reference]

delete

 

[Cross Reference]

Man is redeemed through hearing Christ/ the Spirit, and believing.

If you believe the Light of GOD then you abide by It. To not is to doubt and to waver and to love the material more than the Spirit.

Jesus sacrificed himself for the sake of all. And because of that; we all have the potential to find/ hear, and believe, and we have an example to go by in the Way.

Jesus didn't question the will of GOD as He knew GOD was Truth and that the sake of man did depend on Him to show the way to GOD.

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Indeed Jesus did die for the sake of all mankind. Unlike salvation, "Redemption" is a fact independent of man's will. Salvation on the otherhand, which redemption provdes for, does depend upon mans will by faith by believing the account of the life of Jesus Christ who died for his sins and then acting upon the facts. Although believing is faith in action which secures one to Christ it must be emphasized that it is that same faith which must sustain him for salvation to be worked; to be perfected his life. He must learn this to desire it. John 1:12 (KJB) speaks of the power that is imparted when one who has been saved sets his face towards God in his desire to know Him per John 17:3 (KJB). His salvation provides for such a desire when the 'why of redemption' is made real/clear to him. The choice is then his but he must first count the cost as Jesus directed him in His word.. John 17:3 is but the beginning of a Christian's life.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Indeed Jesus did die for the sake of all mankind. The that He did makes Redemption a fact independent of man's will. Salvation, which redemption provdes for, does depend upon man believing the account of the life of Jesus Christ who died for his sins.

And believing the example and Way.

To believe, for me, is to live as if a thing is true.

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[Faither]

Pops , can't PM you ,. Your in box is full .

 

[Cross Reference]

And believing the example and Way.

To believe, for me, is to live as if a thing is true.

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Many Reform live as it being true but don't believe they need to change the life style they have always enjoyed.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Many Reform live as it being true but don't believe they need to change the life style they have always enjoyed.

Change is expressly spoken of...instant upon receiving Faith, and patient perseverance in GOD'S Word more and more over time because of love of GOD, and willingness to do because of belief.

This is wholly in my own words and may not seem scriptural to some, but I believe it to be for a multitude of reasons, least of which are not faith in GOD and the truth of the Word, both manifest and written.

peace

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[popsthebuilder]

Pops , can't PM you ,. Your in box is full .

I know. I'm sorry. I have repeatedly gone through it and made space, but it isn't helping for some reason. Human error no doubt.

I will try do clear out more room to see of that helps.

Im sorry.

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