The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK

[Jefferson]

The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK

This is the show from Tuesday November 30th, 2010.

SUMMARY:

* Why God Likes the Christmas Tree: Some Christians Have Been Taught: because there are pagan symbols and origins for various Christmas and Easter traditions, therefore believers should not celebrate such religious feast days, should not use pagan terminology, and should certainly not partake in any custom that has pagan roots.

* Seven Lines of Evidence: Pastor Bob Enyart of Denver Bible Church looks at seven lines of evidence from Scripture showing that it is not inherently sinful to use pagan terms. Further, rather than being necessarily dishonored by such, God actively permits and He even employs, along with His people, the use of pagan terms. Finally, the Lord even permits His people to engage in certain superficial pagan practices. Of course God NEVER condones immorality. God would never regulate sin, because He is not double-minded, and because He would never send such mixed messages, and because God would never agree to His people hurting themselves. But then, how could a Christian use various symbolic pagan terms and practices, and yet sin not? Consider:

1. Pagan names for months of the year used in Scripture Neh. 2:1, and all Christians use pagan week day names
2. The Bible uses pagan names for Daniel’s associates. The Book of Daniel
3. Jesus went to Jerusalem for the apocryphal Maccabees’ Feast of Dedication, Hanukkah. John 10:22
4. Pagan philosophical terms co-opted. Hebrews: shadow, types, substance; John: logos
5. God allows us in the Body of Christ to eat meat sacrificed to idols. 1 Cor. 8:4
6. Those who are more mature can even go to, and eat in, an idol’s temple. 1 Cor. 8:10
7. Extra-biblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help. Colossians 2:20-23

1. Biblical Calendar, Hebrew Month Names: Scripture uses the Hebrew names of the months eight times. Ex. 13:4 (Abib, the first month); 23:15; 34:18; Deut. 16:1; 1 Ki. 6:1 (Ziv), 37, 38 (Bul), 8:2 (Ethanim, the seventh month)
Babylonian calendar, pagan names: used in Scripture 16 times. Neh. 1:1 (Chislev); 2:1 (Nisan, the first month); Est. 2:16 (Tebeth); 3:7 2x (Adar, the 12th month), 13; 8:9 (Sivan), 12; 9:1, 15, 17, 19, 21; Ezra 6:15; Zech. 1:7; 7:1
European and Roman Pagan Names: Sun-day, Moon-day, Thor’s-day; Saturn-day, etc.

2. Daniel 1:6-7: "Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel (75x) the name Belteshazzar (10x; see Dan. 10:1); to Hananiah (5x), Shadrach (15x); to Mishael (5x), Meshach (15x); and to Azariah (5x), Abed-Nego (15x)." For example, Daniel 2:49 says, "…Daniel petitioned the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego over the affairs of the province of Babylon…" So the Babylonians took the language that God gave them, and perverted it with symbolism and pagan meaning, not unlike homosexuals taking the color pink, and even, being selfish, taking the entire rainbow, so that now pink symbolizes homosexuality, as does the rainbow itself. But we can take back the rainbow. And we can take back the color pink. So the names of Daniel's associates had pagan origins, and pagan meanings, but regardless, the Holy Spirit inspired Daniel to use those pagan names, because God is holy, but He's not uptight!

3. Jesus went to Jerusalem for the apocryphal feast of Hanukkah: The apocrypha at 1st Maccabees 4:56–59 states: “For eight days they celebrated the rededication of the altar. Then Judah and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the rededication... should be observed... every year... for eight days.” Jesus was a Galilean (Mark 14:70, Luke 23:6; etc. of Nazareth (northern Israel) with His base in Capernaum [Luke 4:23; etc. 16x]) and He would go to Jerusalem to minister for the feasts (John 2:13; etc.). Yet the Gospel of John says that Jesus also went to Jerusalem and even the temple during for the apocryphal feast which the Jews celebrate around Christmas time with the Menorah, the candlestick with nine branches. “Now it was the Feast of Dedication [Greek: renewal; inauguration] in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked into the temple…” (John 10:22-23). Some may criticize a Christian for even attending a religious festival other than an explicitly biblical one, whereas Jesus made it His custom to go to Jerusalem, for ministry purposes, during the Feasts, and He also went for this apocryphal feast.

4. Pagan Philosophical Terms Co-opted by God: Shadow, type, substance, logos (Heb. 8:5; 10:1; Rom. 5:14; John 1:1, 14; etc.) (See also Bob Enyart's Bible Studies and Bible Tours!)

5. Acceptable for Christians to Knowingly Eat Meat Sacrificed to Idols: 1 Co. 8:4

6. Acceptable for Christians to Eat in an Idol's Temple: Members of the Body of Christ may even go into an idol's temple and eat a meal there, paying our money to pagan priests, of Corinth, etc., even though they use our money to promote the worship of false gods like Apollo, etc. 1 Co. 8:10

7. Therefore, If You Died With Christ: from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col. 2:20-23).

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[csuguy]

The problem with the Christmas tree as being pagan is that it stems completely from paganism. Its one thing if the tree had some special meaning within Christianity itself - so that its pagan use was coincidental, but that is not the case. Rather, the Christmas tree is only present because of paganism.

Of course Christmas as a whole is just paganism+commercialism with a little bit of twisted Christianity sprinkled on top - it is not just the Christmas tree but the whole holiday which should be done away with. Some argue that we should take back this day for Christ. Fine - but in the process of doing so you would have to do away with all that the holiday has become to begin with. Getting together with family and buying your friends presents is nice and all - but there is nothing fundamentally Christian about it.

If the purpose of Christmas is to celebrate Christ then you need to do as Christ commanded on this day: go help those in need. This shouldn't be a day when Christian families gather together and have a meal amongst themselves or buy presents for their kids - rather they should go out and feed and clothe the people on the streets, give them gifts.

 

[Cracked]

You know, I really appreciate Christmas. I think that it is a profound time of the year. Certainly, it has been misused. That doesn't mean you or I have to misuse it.

Can one celebrate the birth of Christ with all the pagan stuff all around? I think so. You can find aspects of paganism in the core of Christianity as well (as has been pointed out). If you tried, you could not remove all the pagan influence from your life, I would suppose. Thus, it comes down to what you do with what is presented to you. If you can use if for God's glory, then do so. If you can not, then discard it. However, never assume that just because you can't no one else can.

 

[Granite]

It's so very, very gracious of Christians to "give back" the holidays and symbolism they stole from paganism in the first place.:rotfl:

 

[Sherman]

There is a lot of Biblical wisdom in this article. Too many Christians get their knickers in a twist over things that just are not important.

 

[Todah]

Jeremiah chapter 10 sounds like a prohibition against cutting a tree down from the forest and bringing it into your house, fastening it so it will not totter, and decorating it with silver and gold.

In context if one reads it carefully without prejudice, it is talking about making a Totem pole and believing it has magical and even Godlike qualities.

Jeremiah 10:3 says it is not just a tree cut down, but one fashioned by a craftsman with a cutting tool. That is....a Totem Pole! "For the customs of the people are delusion, because it is wood cut from the forest, the WORK of the hands of a craftsman, with a cutting tool." {A chisel}

Verse 5, It is set out in a field, like a scarecrow, not in a house.

Also verse 5 it is feared because it is thought that it can do harm, and also supposedly bring good if properly reverenced or feared.

Verse 10 explains that there is only one true God, and these Totem poles are not gods.

Verse 8 explains that it is an idol or an image of a false god, or gods.

The rest of the chapter goes on to explain the greatness and power and majesty of God, compared to the weakness and deceptiveness of anything fashioned by man, no matter how skillfully.

My conclusion is that unless you fashion a tree into a form of some other god or if you think that the Christmas tree represents God as an idol:{A violation of the second Commandment}
Or, unless you "fear" your Christmas tree, then Jeremiah chapter 10 is not talking about Christmas trees and it is your liberty to have one.

I do decorate my tree with silver and gold ornaments, but I have never thought that it has power, nor do I worship it.

Rather; when the days are done, I throw it in the alley for the trashman, and the dogs pee on it while it lingers there.

I would hardly do that to a god, or anything that I feared or respected, in and of itself.

The only people that I know who are truly afraid of Christmas tress are Messianics like myself, of which I am the odd duck, so to speak.

If you are afraid of them by all means do not get one, nor should you even speak of them?

The second greatest miracle that I personally believe in, is the incarnation, when God became flesh through a virgin. The angels came down from heaven to celebrate His birthday with the shepherds. If it was good enough for the angels to celebrate, in a unique and glorious way, than why shouldn't we.

I consider myself a poor shepherd in a sense, and if I am to celebrate with joy my own children's births, each and every year, why would one like I, not celebrate the greatest birth of the greatest "man" ever born.

It seems appropriate to me to celebrate it with one of His creations, an evergreen tree, and with lights, which symbolizes light and life, coming out of great darkness and cold.

He was probably, but not necessarily born around October first and not around January First, but no one knows for sure.

Whichever the date I still think that lights and green life is one of the best ways to celebrate His birth.

 

[Hilston]

What follows is a brief response to Jefferson's post regarding Bob Enyart's broadcast, The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK. I have not listened to the broadcast, so my comments pertain solely to what is written above.

Christ-Mass Trees and Abortion Instruments
Bob Enyart's argument for why God "likes" the use of Christ-Mass trees for celebrating Christ-Mass is, in principle, like arguing for why God "likes" the use of instruments used to perform abortions. The problem in both cases is that God opposes the overall behavior, regardless of what symbols or instruments one chooses to facilitate that behavior. God's Word teaches that it is sin to murder an unborn child, regardless of what instruments are used. The Scripture also teaches that the observance of religious holy days is sin and dishonors Christ as Head of the Body, regardless of what decorations are used.

Pagan vs. Religious

Some Christians Have Been Taught: because there are pagan symbols and origins for various Christmas and Easter traditions, therefore believers should not celebrate such religious feast days, should not use pagan terminology, and should certainly not partake in any custom that has pagan roots.

While the Bible does not prohibit the use of pagan symbols for secular purposes, it does prohibit them for religious purposes (the cross, for example, is entirely a pagan, post hoc symbol co-opted by early corrupt religionists). The Bible also prohibits all religious feast days, whether pagan or Christian. Whether or not a custom has religious roots is not relevant or prohibited as long as that custom is not itself religious (such as using the word "Wednesday," which happens to be named after the pagan viking god, Woden, i.e. "Odin's Day"). However, the Scriptures are clear that observances of Mosaic ceremony (the "rudiments of the Mosaic Order" Col. 2:8), indeed any religious ceremony, ritual, feast, etc., -- Mosaic or not -- are expressly and biblically prohibited. Further and detailed elaboration on these principles can be found in many posts I've offered on this forum.

'Inherently sinful'

... it is not inherently sinful to use pagan terms.

It should be noted that nothing is inherently sinful. Take any sinful behavior and strip it from its context, and you will find there is nothing that is essentially, inherently sinful. For example, for King David to murder Uriah -- an unjustified killing -- is a sinful act, whereas the execution of a man who willfully violated the Sabbath was a righteous act. Thus, killing is not inherently or essentially sinful. Similarly, decorating a tree is not sinful. But decorating a tree for religious reasons, in order to observe a religious holy day is sinful. Thus, tree decorating is not inherently or essentially evil.

... God is holy, but He's not uptight!

I've heard this phrase used several times over the years of discussions here on TOL. It is customarily used whenever someone objects to a claim that God has established a law and wants it to be obeyed. However, the same people who use the phrase would never object to God being "uptight" about abortion. So, when you boil it down, the phrase is actually meaningless, intended to be provocative, and is wholly irrelevant to any discussion of what God wants in terms of obedience to His Word. What is germane is what the Scriptures say about God's requirements of His people, and not anyone's opinion about what appears to be "uptight" or not.

Extrabiblical or Mosaic?

7. 7. Extra-biblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help. Colossians 2:20-23... Therefore, If You Died With Christ: from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col. 2:20-23).

Enyart makes the mistake of assuming that the regulations referenced in Galatians and Colossians are "extrabiblical" (i.e., outside of the Bible). They are not. Further, Enyart seems to think that those who abstain from such practices are opposing Paul's warnings about "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle." On the contrary, Paul is emphatically warning the Colossians not to return to religious ordinances via Moses, as they practiced in a pagan manner formerly, because they all amount to angel worship. Stated another way, all religious ceremony and ritual, whether pagan or Mosaic, were tantamount to angel worship. Paul's reference to the rudiments of the Order, regulations, asceticism, and the commandments and doctrines of men are in contrast to the non-ceremonial, non-priestly, non-angelically-administered One Faith (Eph 4:5) given to members of the Body of Christ, who sit with Christ above the angelic realm and their ministery. Paul has prohibited, for the Body of Christ, any and all religiously ceremonial practices, religious holidays, Mosaic ordinances -- all of which were attended by the angelic ministry of Israel -- which the Colossians and the Galatians were being beguiled into observing.

When Enyart says "Extrabiblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help," he has misplaced Paul's prohibition. Again, the Word of Christ via Paul is not saying that those who preach against religious holy days are imposing regulations, but rather that members of the Body of Christ, having died with Him, having been circumcised in Him and baptized in Him, are to avoid religious ceremony (circumcision, baptism), holydays (Mosaic, pagan and religious), all of which may have an appearance of wisdom and religiosity and humility and spirituality, but are actually the worship of angels (Col 2:18). And the Body of Christ, which is seated with Christ above the angelic realm, ought not to have anything to do with such things.

Keep the Mass in Christ-Mass, and then chuck the whole thing
Hilston

 

[Pam Baldwin]

What follows is a brief response to Jefferson's post regarding Bob Enyart's broadcast, The Pagan Christmas Tree is OK. I have not listened to the broadcast, so my comments pertain solely to what is written above.

Christ-Mass Trees and Abortion Instruments
Bob Enyart's argument for why God "likes" the use of Christ-Mass trees for celebrating Christ-Mass is, in principle, like arguing for why God "likes" the use of instruments used to perform abortions. The problem in both cases is that God opposes the overall behavior, regardless of what symbols or instruments one chooses to facilitate that behavior. God's Word teaches that it is sin to murder an unborn child, regardless of what instruments are used. The Scripture also teaches that the observance of religious holy days is sin and dishonors Christ as Head of the Body, regardless of what decorations are used.

Pagan vs. ReligiousWhile the Bible does not prohibit the use of pagan symbols for secular purposes, it does prohibit them for religious purposes (the cross, for example, is entirely a pagan, post hoc symbol co-opted by early corrupt religionists). The Bible also prohibits all religious feast days, whether pagan or Christian. Whether or not a custom has religious roots is not relevant or prohibited as long as that custom is not itself religious (such as using the word "Wednesday," which happens to be named after the pagan viking god, Woden, i.e. "Odin's Day"). However, the Scriptures are clear that observances of Mosaic ceremony (the "rudiments of the Mosaic Order" Col. 2:8), indeed any religious ceremony, ritual, feast, etc., -- Mosaic or not -- are expressly and biblically prohibited. Further and detailed elaboration on these principles can be found in many posts I've offered on this forum.

'Inherently sinful'It should be noted that nothing is inherently sinful. Take any sinful behavior and strip it from its context, and you will find there is nothing that is essentially, inherently sinful. For example, for King David to murder Uriah -- an unjustified killing -- is a sinful act, whereas the execution of a man who willfully violated the Sabbath was a righteous act. Thus, killing is not inherently or essentially sinful. Similarly, decorating a tree is not sinful. But decorating a tree for religious reasons, in order to observe a religious holy day is sinful. Thus, tree decorating is not inherently or essentially evil.
I've heard this phrase used several times over the years of discussions here on TOL. It is customarily used whenever someone objects to a claim that God has established a law and wants it to be obeyed. However, the same people who use the phrase would never object to God being "uptight" about abortion. So, when you boil it down, the phrase is actually meaningless, intended to be provocative, and is wholly irrelevant to any discussion of what God wants in terms of obedience to His Word. What is germane is what the Scriptures say about God's requirements of His people, and not anyone's opinion about what appears to be "uptight" or not.

Extrabiblical or Mosaic?7. 7. Extra-biblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help. Colossians 2:20-23... Therefore, If You Died With Christ: from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations; "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using; according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col. 2:20-23).
Enyart makes the mistake of assuming that the regulations referenced in Galatians and Colossians are "extrabiblical" (i.e., outside of the Bible). They are not. Further, Enyart seems to think that those who abstain from such practices are opposing Paul's warnings about "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle." On the contrary, Paul is emphatically warning the Colossians not to return to religious ordinances via Moses, as they practiced in a pagan manner formerly, because they all amount to angel worship. Stated another way, all religious ceremony and ritual, whether pagan or Mosaic, were tantamount to angel worship. Paul's reference to the rudiments of the Order, regulations, asceticism, and the commandments and doctrines of men are in contrast to the non-ceremonial, non-priestly, non-angelically-administered One Faith (Eph 4:5) given to members of the Body of Christ, who sit with Christ above the angelic realm and their ministery. Paul has prohibited, for the Body of Christ, any and all religiously ceremonial practices, religious holidays, Mosaic ordinances -- all of which were attended by the angelic ministry of Israel -- which the Colossians and the Galatians were being beguiled into observing.

When Enyart says "Extrabiblical regulations may have a superficial appearance of wisdom but do not help," he has misplaced Paul's prohibition. Again, the Word of Christ via Paul is not saying that those who preach against religious holy days are imposing regulations, but rather that members of the Body of Christ, having died with Him, having been circumcised in Him and baptized in Him, are to avoid religious ceremony (circumcision, baptism), holydays (Mosaic, pagan and religious), all of which may have an appearance of wisdom and religiosity and humility and spirituality, but are actually the worship of angels (Col 2:18). And the Body of Christ, which is seated with Christ above the angelic realm, ought not to have anything to do with such things.

Keep the Mass in Christ-Mass, and then chuck the whole thing
Hilston

Hilston- I agree that the Body of Christ is not to sumit/subject to any religious ceremonial/rituals. In fact, I do not participate in any of the religious days/events myself.

But I have a question.
You say "nothing is inherently sinful." That statement is true.
So, you do agree that "laws" are written that apply to certain groups/persons and not to be taken as imposed on everyone in all times?

I ask because in your post, you state the prohibition that Paul wrote was to the Colossians and Galatians, and to the Body of Christ at large.

Here's my question:
?If the prohibiton is written to the Body of Christ, will the NON-Body of Christ be judged for not obeying a command to the Body?


Thanks!

 

[CabinetMaker]

Seems to me that it boils down to a question of why you do something. It is not sinful to eat meat sacrificed to a pagan idol because the mature believer knows the pagan idol is nothing and the food is simply food.

Do you decorate a tree as an act of worship? If so, you have crossed the line. If you decorate it because it holds certain memories of first homes, vacations, children's births and milestones and because you like the festive feel it brings t the house, then you are probably not anywhere close to the line.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Hilston- I agree that the Body of Christ is not to sumit/subject to any religious ceremonial/rituals. In fact, I do not participate in any of the religious days/events myself.

But I have a question.
You say "nothing is inherently sinful." That statement is true.
So, you do agree that "laws" are written that apply to certain groups/persons and not to be taken as imposed on everyone in all times?

I ask because in your post, you state the prohibition that Paul wrote was to the Colossians and Galatians, and to the Body of Christ at large.

Here's my question:
?If the prohibiton is written to the Body of Christ, will the NON-Body of Christ be judged for not obeying a command to the Body?


Thanks!

We're saved from the law or were we saved to the law? In other words, is a believer judged by the law?

 

[Cracked]

It's so very, very gracious of Christians to "give back" the holidays and symbolism they stole from paganism in the first place.:rotfl:

How long has Christmas been Christmas? Actually, Christmas is a Christian holiday. Whatever it was before doesn't really exist anymore - neo paganism gropes in the dark for any information on various eclectic practices this time of year. The fullness of whatever it was before is long gone.

Certainly, many non-Christians celebrate Christmas minus Christ. I did for a long time. You can keep your tree and wreath anyway you like. That has nothing to do with my "graciousness".

 

[Granite]

How long has Christmas been Christmas?

The holiday as we know it these days hasn't existed for very long; Dickens had a hand in popularizing it.

Whatever it was before doesn't really exist anymore - neo paganism gropes in the dark for any information on various eclectic practices this time of year. The fullness of whatever it was before is long gone.

Celebrating the symbolic rebirth of the sun is pretty well documented. You do know why it's held on December 25th, right?

Certainly, many non-Christians celebrate Christmas minus Christ. I did for a long time. You can keep your tree and wreath anyway you like.

I plan on it!:cheers:

 

[Cracked]

Celebrating the symbolic rebirth of the sun is pretty well documented. You do know why it's held on December 25th, right?

Yes. Now, could that have any Christological implications?

The paganism that is practiced today is mostly guess work.

 

[Pam Baldwin]

Seems to me that it boils down to a question of why you do something.

CabinetMaker:

I have to ask then, why did God have any laws written down then since the Law doesn't matter, just the "why"?

 

[Granite]

Yes. Now, could that have any Christological implications?

Nope, not really. The date was recognized well before you guys appropriated it.

 

[Cracked]

Nope, not really. The date was recognized well before you guys appropriated it.

Yes, of course, unless we are correct. In that case it seems like an ideal time to celebrate the birth of Christ.

Some seem to be operating under the delusion that unless something is completely original it detracts from the truth. Amazingly, the opposite is often true. They say, "Ha ha! Christmas has pagan stuff in it!" as if that somehow lessens the gospel. I say, it is quite amazing that the whole world reflects the sovereignty of God - a God so great and so apparent that no one is without excuse.

 

[No Sheep Here]

This shouldn't be a day when Christian families gather together and have a meal amongst themselves or buy presents for their kids - rather they should go out and feed and clothe the people on the streets, give them gifts.

I completely agree with you here. What a wonderful holiday Christmas would be if Christians actually used it in unity with their own beliefs. If Christianity believes that baby Jesus was a gift to mankind, then maybe the day should be used for those in need by clothing and giving gifts to mankind. Too bad no one actually cares about the holiday's supposed meaning; people are too interested in their own selfish traditions.

I wonder what one world united effort in a Christmas of charity could do for the world. Wouldn't it be wonderful if some of the larger Christian organizations promoted this concept one year? Since Christianity borrowed the holiday anyway, why not try to improve it.

 

[TomO]

The problem with the Christmas tree as being pagan is that it stems completely from paganism. Its one thing if the tree had some special meaning within Christianity itself - so that its pagan use was coincidental, but that is not the case. Rather, the Christmas tree is only present because of paganism.

Of course Christmas as a whole is just paganism+commercialism with a little bit of twisted Christianity sprinkled on top - it is not just the Christmas tree but the whole holiday which should be done away with. Some argue that we should take back this day for Christ. Fine - but in the process of doing so you would have to do away with all that the holiday has become to begin with. Getting together with family and buying your friends presents is nice and all - but there is nothing fundamentally Christian about it.

If the purpose of Christmas is to celebrate Christ then you need to do as Christ commanded on this day: go help those in need. This shouldn't be a day when Christian families gather together and have a meal amongst themselves or buy presents for their kids - rather they should go out and feed and clothe the people on the streets, give them gifts.

I completely agree with you here. What a wonderful holiday Christmas would be if Christians actually used it in unity with their own beliefs. If Christianity believes that baby Jesus was a gift to mankind, then maybe the day should be used for those in need by clothing and giving gifts to mankind. Too bad no one actually cares about the holiday's supposed meaning; people are too interested in their own selfish traditions.

I wonder what one world united effort in a Christmas of charity could do for the world. Wouldn't it be wonderful if some of the larger Christian organizations promoted this concept one year? Since Christianity borrowed the holiday anyway, why not try to improve it.

Just out of curiosity; if I did these things throughout the year would it be bloody well okay with you good Christians if I enjoyed Dec. 25th with my family.....just wondering. lain:

 

[The Berean]

I like how many think they speak for all Christians. Why people assume that not one Christian ever feeds the poor during the the holidays or give financial support is beyond me. I know plenty of people that spend hours tirelessly feeding the poor and some even bring homeless people to their church or homes to share a Christmas meal. Most do this year around actually. If these people never see others feeding the homeless maybe this speaks more about them than anything else? :think:

 

[No Sheep Here]

Just out of curiosity; if I did these things throughout the year would it be bloody well okay with you good Christians if I enjoyed Dec. 25th with my family.....just wondering. lain:

What does it matter if you do it throughout the year. i give gifts throughout the year to people and I do it on birthdays and Christmas; i also do charity. It's not about being a bad or good Christians, it should be about being consistent with your beliefs. Your tradition says you give gifts to celebrate Christ who was a gift to the world. WELL GIVE GIFTS TO THE WORLD. You needed a savior and there are tons of people who need to be saved from poverty and everything else. I just said that it would be nice if Christmas was turned into a world charity event. Just think of what impact it could make. I may actually have a bit more respect for the Christians at that point who aren't maxing out credit cards to spoil kids or wives while a good portion of humanity is homeless and starving.