ECT The New Covenant de-complicated for 2P2P-ers

Interplanner

Well-known member
The new covenant is not complicated. But 2P2P is very complicated. So here is what the new covenant was about.

Christ is the new covenant partner. 'I will make you a covenant for the nations.'--Isaiah. He acts on behalf of that part of mankind that believes. They are welcomed to make use of his righteousness to be accepted and blessed by God.

"This is the new covenant in my blood" he drank, after saying that the next time he drank it, it would be fulfilled.

Except in 2P2P, it is a standard Christian belief that the blood of Christ was shed for all mankind. Not that they all recieve it, though. But there is not a separate way of worship or reconciling with God.

In 2 Cor 3-5, it is spoken of more as a ministry but that's only because it becomes a ministry. The new covenant for all mankind is now a message to be proclaimed. It replaces the old covenant, 3:10. It brings righteousness (justification) to men who believe. That is the treatment for the debt problem.

The new covenant is part of the new creation, which is Christ; Paul did not mean all the individual events; he meant those 'in Christ--the new creation.'

Christ and the new covenant are also the age of grace and favor that Isaiah spoke of in 49 that would come after the law.

Hebrews has the most detail on the new covenant's presence. As you can see from the book, all the old accoutrements of Judaism are let go of; the features of the new covenant are universal, saving all who believe. 2:14+ This was always bound to happen because Christ is of the priest-line of Melchizedek anyway, not Aaron. The new covenant is now and fulfilled in Christ and is far superior in cleansing a person from sin. There is no longer any sacrifice for sin, 10:18.

The obnoxious system of 2P2P is entirely at odds with 8:13; this is found every week here at TOL. Because 2P2P is the fraud that God is operating some other system with Judaism around and behind the back of Christ.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Isa 60
60 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Christ and the new covenant are also the age of grace and favor that Isaiah spoke of in 49 that would come after the law.

The New Covenant was only promised to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is also evident that it is not now in effect because this prophecy has not been fulfilled yet:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

This prophecy is in regard to the physical descendants of Jacob because this prophecy says that their "fathers" were the ones who broke the Lord's covenant which was in place when He brought them out of Egypt. That can only be referring to the "physical descendants" of Jacob so since their "fathers" were the physical descendants then so are they.

And when the New Covenant will be in effect then all the physical descendants from the house of Israel and the house of Jacob will know the Lord, "from the least of them unto the greatest of them," and they will all have their sins forgiven.

Since this prophecy has never been fulfilled then it is obvious that the New Covenant is not now in effect!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Completely answers the question of whom the new covenant was made to.



Yes it looked like that until you get to the NT and what Christ said about it. That is the final word on it.

what STP said is to go back to Judaism; the last time that happened it meant not believing that Jesus of Nazareth was Messiah, which is to say, it was the spirit of antichrist, in I John 2 and 4. Myself, I'd rather not be on that side of things.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member


Shame on you: the passage was about christ as is all of Moses and the prophets. There is no indication in the NT that we are to go back to the Judaistic way of viewing these things, which of course eliminates the conflict. Paul's final on this was in the hearing in Acts 28 and said that what Israel was looking for was fulfilled in the resurrection, but THEY KEEP LOOKING FOR IT!!! That's you!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
IP's method of "de-complicating" the New Covenant is to tell us that Jer 31:31 and Heb 8:8 DO NOT MEAN WHAT THEY SAY!

:idunno:

I think IP does not know the New Covenant from a hole in the ground.


Yes there are times when the NT uses the OT and the main figure in the quote is actually Christ or the new Israel or the mission of the Gospel. Get used to it. Literalism is a Pharisee problem; it is found 20x in the account of John itself.

The Seed to whom the Promise referred was Christ, not 'many people' (Israel). Gal 3:16. That's the model of the NT that you have all missed.

By comparison, 2P2P is loaded with complications and exceptions one end to the other. I've even heard teachers say that they think Christ will be sacrificed all over again--trying to make the 2 programs fuse into one after all.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Yes there are times when the NT uses the OT and the main figure in the quote is actually Christ or the new Israel or the mission of the Gospel. Get used to it. Literalism is a Pharisee problem; it is found 20x in the account of John itself.

The Seed to whom the Promise referred was Christ, not 'many people' (Israel). Gal 3:16. That's the model of the NT that you have all missed.

By comparison, 2P2P is loaded with complications and exceptions one end to the other. I've even heard teachers say that they think Christ will be sacrificed all over again--trying to make the 2 programs fuse into one after all.

:chuckle:
 

Right Divider

Body part
The new covenant is not complicated. But 2P2P is very complicated. So here is what the new covenant was about.

Christ is the new covenant partner. 'I will make you a covenant for the nations.'--Isaiah. He acts on behalf of that part of mankind that believes. They are welcomed to make use of his righteousness to be accepted and blessed by God.
I asked you to quit CHAPTER BLASTING..... so you now you're BOOK BLASTING?

BE SPECIFIC.... don't make us have to GUESS which verses you're talking about!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The idea laid out in the prophets is that Israel would rise with their New Covenant, and the Gentiles would seek God through them.

Paul writes from the perspective of a fallen Israel, however.

It's not complicated.



Nope, you have a Judaistic idea of 'rise'; that is 'kata sarka' (according to the flesh) 2 Cor 5:16. That's what he's saying: he once saw Christ/Jesus that way. That is what is to be discarded. You have missed what happened in the new covenant age. You are not aware that none of those things show up again when the NT talks of the New covenant. That's the complication of 2P2P; it's foundation is a fraud but they believe it is 'there.'
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The idea laid out in the prophets is that Israel would rise with their New Covenant, and the Gentiles would seek God through them.

Paul writes from the perspective of a fallen Israel, however.

It's not complicated.



You are half right about seeking Christ through Israel; it was the source of the first missionaries to the world. That's what I'm saying about Acts. It is made final in Acts 1 that the whole business is not about a Davidic kingdom. It is about a power to speak to all nations. Which happened many times in Acts and continues.
 
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