The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !

[beloved57]

Romans 9:13


13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:23


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in Ps 5:5 are the very same !
​

 

[beloved57]

Jn 3:16 tells us of God's Love for the world, but never specifically states that God loved all mankind as individuals without exception, that has been read into the text by those who care little about the Truth of God.

And such a verse as Jn 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Must and should be explained by other verses of scripture that speaks on the same subject as God's Love of People.

First lets look at at an OT scripture that speaks to God's Love to a People Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

We find here something extremely important about an immutable God and His Love. That God's Love is set upon a people He chooses look at Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Notice too that His Love is set upon the fewest of all people.. This should be a big eye opener for us, God Loves not the masses of mankind, for those He Loves are the few of mankind.

Remember Jesus stated about finding the road that leads to life that few find it Matt 7:13-14

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Those few, are and will be those God Loved.. So God so loved the world, means He loved a few , chosen ones in the world, His own special ones.

Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

The jews would have known from Deut 7 that God's Love was exclusive for only some, but what they did not know was that some was not limited to them, for God loved some as well of different people groups, outside of their race; but His Love was nevertheless limited to a certain people, but just not to a limited location or race, it was the world at large that this special loved and certain people would be located..
​

 

[oatmeal]

You have made an interesting point.

However, in the context of the entire word of God, God is love, His love reaches to all. However, not all have responded in kind. Since God is love, for him to say that he hates certain people is figurative. Surely, he is not pleased with the hearts of many.

God's love certainly flows most abundantly to those who love him back. But God's love extends to all. Salvation is made available to all. That is God's love.

Did God hate Esau or his works?

That there are those who live contrary to God's will is clear. Yet salvation is available to all.

God is love.

oatmeal

 

[beloved57]

oatmeal:

However, in the context of the entire word of God, God is love,

To His own..

 

[beloved57]

Its God's Love that moved Him to choose His People in Christ and make them a special people above all others Deut 14:2

2For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

This is a exclusive Love for His chosen ! The Chosen are all those regardless of race, who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God Loved His People so much, He ensured that they will be made Holy and Without blame before Him in Love.. Thats what God's Love does, it ensures this outcome..

 

[Nick M]

God can still love somebody while being despised by them. Take you for example. You godless piece of trash.

 

[The Horn]

God loves all men? What about women?

 

[beloved57]

God can still love somebody while being despised by them. Take you for example. You godless piece of trash.

Halieua Matt 5:11

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

 

[beloved57]

So, we see specifically that God's Love causes Him to choose a people. That would lead us to understand, that the world of Jn 3:16 consist of those so loved and Chosen of God..

Gods Love = Chosen ones to be recipients and benefactors of it.

Those God Loved, also is specifically designated His Church Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now, is the church everyone in the world without exception ? It would be foolish to say yes to that question..

The word church is the greek word

ek klēsia:

It simply means to call out, the called out ones..

1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The church has been called out of darkness, and secondly, into His Marvelous light..

Its not a half done process. Its a calling out of and into.

These are the objects of God's Love in the world, the called out ones, the Church of Jesus Christ.

Paul calls them the called as in Rom 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Rom 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Rom 9:24

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Now nowhere in scripture can these things apply to all mankind without exception.

The world that God Loved is a called world. Remember one of the definitions for the word world kosmos is:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

So the called of Jesus Christ as in Rom 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

So the collection of the called of Jesus Christ is the world God so Loved !

This just simply cannot be denied !​

 

[depthdeception]

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

Try reading the rest of the passage. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion of God loving "individuals." The writer's entire argument in this passage is that of counterpoint. The "Jew/Gentile" and "Jacob/Esau" dichotomy is what the Judaizers of the day appealed to in their insistence on the adoption of the Jewish cultus of worship by Gentiles who were being incorporated into the church. The writer here, however, debunks their claims, showing that God's purpose in salvation history has all along been to bring all peoples into God's kingdom, even the "hated" of Esau. This is why the writer later suggests that it is wholly appropriate that the hated, "not my people" (Gentiles, descendants of Esau, etc.) become "my people"--for God's mercy is not based on identity (election), but solely on the mercy of God which has, in the writer's arguments, been shown to extend to and encompass all peoples (Jew and Gentile alike).

 

[freelight]

casting 'god' .....................

casting 'god' .....................

Romans 9:


13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

​

Sounds like casting 'God' in the light of human feelings, emotions, perhaps making 'God' in man's image? Also, how could Real God hate anyone? - especially before they were born, or apart from anything they have ever done or merited? (unless the soul of Esau in past lives earned the 'dislike' of God, yet still...God is just and merciful, not willing that any perish). I dont think a 'god' hating for nothing but hatred's sake, is worthy of adoration or worship.



pj​

 

[beloved57]

depth:

Try reading the rest of the passage. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion of God loving "individuals."

So are you denying that Esau was an Individual ?

 

[beloved57]

If God Loved all men without exception, whats the Point of Jesus telling His disciples this ? Jn 14:21

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.

 

[freelight]

responding love...............

responding love...............

If God Loved all men without exception, whats the Point of Jesus telling His disciples this ? Jn 14:21

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.

Consider 'God' as Infinite LOVE. - Its immensity is greater than any human mind can fathom. This infinite Love includes all that exists, for nothing can exist outside its providence.

The verse above is relating the response of love, for those who hear the word of God. It is in the response of love that its full realization is known in the relationship of the persons involved. The infinity of God's Love still exists for those not yet responding.


pj

 

[beloved57]

Consider 'God' as Infinite LOVE. - Its immensity is greater than any human mind can fathom. This infinite Love includes all that exists, for nothing can exist outside its providence.

The verse above is relating the response of love, for those who hear the word of God. It is in the response of love that its full realization is known in the relationship of the persons involved. The infinity of God's Love still exists for those not yet responding.


pj

If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.

 

[Sealeaf]

God loves all men? What about women?

Well if God loves men and does not say he loves women, then God must find men more attractive. If God is male that makes Him a homosexual. But we have no proof God is male so perhaps God is straight but female.

 

[oatmeal]

oatmeal:



To His own..

Indeed the effect of God's love is most evident in those who love God.

God does not withhold good from anyone who believes, but not all have believed, have they not?

It rains on the just and the unjust alike.

Rain is representative of God's goodness to all mankind.

Not all mankind has chosen to love him who first loved us.

God's focus is on those who love Him. The others remain in His "peripheral" vision.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Try reading the rest of the passage. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion of God loving "individuals." The writer's entire argument in this passage is that of counterpoint. The "Jew/Gentile" and "Jacob/Esau" dichotomy is what the Judaizers of the day appealed to in their insistence on the adoption of the Jewish cultus of worship by Gentiles who were being incorporated into the church. The writer here, however, debunks their claims, showing that God's purpose in salvation history has all along been to bring all peoples into God's kingdom, even the "hated" of Esau. This is why the writer later suggests that it is wholly appropriate that the hated, "not my people" (Gentiles, descendants of Esau, etc.) become "my people"--for God's mercy is not based on identity (election), but solely on the mercy of God which has, in the writer's arguments, been shown to extend to and encompass all peoples (Jew and Gentile alike).

Well said.

 

[beloved57]

oatmeal:

Indeed the effect of God's love is most evident in those who love God.

Indeed, because He first Loved them, thats what effected their Love to Him 1 jn 4:

We love him, because he first loved us.

All for whom Christ died for, will Love God, because His death shall make them righteous rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That being made righteous includes being given a Love for God..

So those not Loving God, is indicator that God does not Love them, and neither did Christ die for them..

 

[beloved57]

If God Loved all men without exception, Christ words in Jn 14:21,23 are meaningless which are:

Jn 14:21,23

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Again, if God loved all men without exception, that means that even though men do not Love and obey Christ can be assured of the Fathers Love, as indicated in Jn 3:16​