revhleonard
New member
I have read what you posted to C-More, and i still diasgree. I have considered your proofs, and i still disagree. No biggie, i just disagree.
The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
c.moore
New member
kevin
Quote :c.moore
Ja that right just accepting.
Yes, but obeying commandments is not salvation.
Quote c.moore
I might sound like the Rev Leanord, but here we go Joh:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Quote c.moore
that why we are under grace.
I didn`say we should not obey Christ commandment , all I believe and agree with the bible that this is not salvation and has nothing to do with the grace of salvation or being elected righteous childrens.
This is not doctrine what I believe this is bible. sorry Kevin.
Quote c.moore
I can`t just think about it and I know it`s foolish to you because the bible says:1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Again obedienece is not salvation , it the thing you do after believing and recieved the new birth.
Quote c.moore
I am glad you at least admit the truth about this:I'll agree that it was because of their faith in God that they obyed what He told them to do, but belief only didn't save them... it was their faith
notice the faith came first, and without the faith nothing else can happen. Of course if I believe a chair will hold my body I will seat in the chair, but without the key thing blief alone you can not move me. You said ;
Do you actually believe that they could have believed and not obyed God (not building the ark or getting into it), and still be saved?
This is my point about the chair that I explain, first believe, and the believing will make you want to do the do, but I don`t do the do withouit belief coming first and being the most important part to make me what to work.
Remember the soldier that ask Jesus to heal his servant without any works, and Jesus said so great of FAITH have I never seen, and the manifestation toke place because of FAith only.
Quote
Let me get the communication right on this.
COLOR=red]What do you think through is in the verse???[/COLOR]
I here the Jehovah witness say they go through Jesus to get to Jehovah but I found out they are going pass Jesus and really kicking Jesus to the side and they are walking proudly to God on their own works and powers.
This is why I must ask you the question.
One other question that is very important is what does the the meaning Jesus in you , and you in Jesus mean to you or the Holy Spirit IN YOU mean????
c.moore Quote
I am not trying to say, I will say it in red we are saved before baptism by faith and trust Jesus not myself.
Quote c.moore
When Can we use the Blood of Jesus to free us from sins kevin???
We do we start to believe the resurrection of Jesus after baptism???
Quote c.moore
You said the key to the good new message of the gospel in your verse you gave and that is;He had a good conscience towards God because he had heard
The peopel followed Jesus in the thousands is because they heard praise God.
I always invite a person to get saved after they have heard the good news of the cross and about Jesus, and after they recieve Christ into their hearts I tell them about baptism and the commandment,and the obedience so they can be blessed after being saved by accepting jesus and repenting of thier sins and dieing to thier flesh before baptismo.
Quote c,moore
I am not calling you a devil or satan so don`t get me wrong Kevin because I know you are a man of God, But the devil know the bible also and he even quoted psalms 91 a verse to try to see if Jesus would spring from the temple but Jesus didn`t jump because Jesus knows the real revelations of the scripture , the deep revelation and understanding, which most christian don`t see and miss interpretate so the devil love to do this with alot of christian so he can steal destroy, and bring division among ourselves so the kingdom of God can be destroyed, the bible says a house against itself can not stand. This is my purpose is to bring us together in one understanding and in one house under one Spirit Of God.I want Jesus to look good and be right not c.moore be right ,because I am nothing without Jesus Kevin.
All wisdom ,honor, and Glory to my FATHER Jesus Christ who is my DAD.:up:
All the scriptures you gave on obeying I agree with you and I suggest every christ should obey and do the commandments , and stay by the golden rules, but none of these thing and works can replace the free gift of recieving salvation by grace of Jesus who made us righteous 2000 years ago and payed for our sins in full and we are perfect because of Christ and any born again believer can stand boldly before the throne of God and say I am the righjteousness of God and I am justified beccause of Christ Jesus and I have the rights tothe book the life and the right to enter heaven gates, specially if that person recieved the faith of thier righteousness and right as a seed of Abraham.
All I know is the grace of Christ covers everything for us,
Like Jesus said; IT IS FINISHED
God Bless
Quote :c.moore
Ja that right just accepting.
Yes, but obeying commandments is not salvation.
Quote c.moore
I might sound like the Rev Leanord, but here we go Joh:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Quote c.moore
that why we are under grace.
I didn`say we should not obey Christ commandment , all I believe and agree with the bible that this is not salvation and has nothing to do with the grace of salvation or being elected righteous childrens.
This is not doctrine what I believe this is bible. sorry Kevin.
Quote c.moore
I can`t just think about it and I know it`s foolish to you because the bible says:1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Again obedienece is not salvation , it the thing you do after believing and recieved the new birth.
Quote c.moore
I am glad you at least admit the truth about this:I'll agree that it was because of their faith in God that they obyed what He told them to do, but belief only didn't save them... it was their faith
notice the faith came first, and without the faith nothing else can happen. Of course if I believe a chair will hold my body I will seat in the chair, but without the key thing blief alone you can not move me. You said ;
Do you actually believe that they could have believed and not obyed God (not building the ark or getting into it), and still be saved?
This is my point about the chair that I explain, first believe, and the believing will make you want to do the do, but I don`t do the do withouit belief coming first and being the most important part to make me what to work.
Remember the soldier that ask Jesus to heal his servant without any works, and Jesus said so great of FAITH have I never seen, and the manifestation toke place because of FAith only.
Quote
Let me get the communication right on this.
COLOR=red]What do you think through is in the verse???[/COLOR]
I here the Jehovah witness say they go through Jesus to get to Jehovah but I found out they are going pass Jesus and really kicking Jesus to the side and they are walking proudly to God on their own works and powers.
This is why I must ask you the question.
One other question that is very important is what does the the meaning Jesus in you , and you in Jesus mean to you or the Holy Spirit IN YOU mean????
c.moore Quote
I am not trying to say, I will say it in red we are saved before baptism by faith and trust Jesus not myself.
Quote c.moore
When Can we use the Blood of Jesus to free us from sins kevin???
We do we start to believe the resurrection of Jesus after baptism???
Quote c.moore
You said the key to the good new message of the gospel in your verse you gave and that is;He had a good conscience towards God because he had heard
The peopel followed Jesus in the thousands is because they heard praise God.
I always invite a person to get saved after they have heard the good news of the cross and about Jesus, and after they recieve Christ into their hearts I tell them about baptism and the commandment,and the obedience so they can be blessed after being saved by accepting jesus and repenting of thier sins and dieing to thier flesh before baptismo.
Quote c,moore
I am not calling you a devil or satan so don`t get me wrong Kevin because I know you are a man of God, But the devil know the bible also and he even quoted psalms 91 a verse to try to see if Jesus would spring from the temple but Jesus didn`t jump because Jesus knows the real revelations of the scripture , the deep revelation and understanding, which most christian don`t see and miss interpretate so the devil love to do this with alot of christian so he can steal destroy, and bring division among ourselves so the kingdom of God can be destroyed, the bible says a house against itself can not stand. This is my purpose is to bring us together in one understanding and in one house under one Spirit Of God.I want Jesus to look good and be right not c.moore be right ,because I am nothing without Jesus Kevin.
All wisdom ,honor, and Glory to my FATHER Jesus Christ who is my DAD.:up:
All the scriptures you gave on obeying I agree with you and I suggest every christ should obey and do the commandments , and stay by the golden rules, but none of these thing and works can replace the free gift of recieving salvation by grace of Jesus who made us righteous 2000 years ago and payed for our sins in full and we are perfect because of Christ and any born again believer can stand boldly before the throne of God and say I am the righjteousness of God and I am justified beccause of Christ Jesus and I have the rights tothe book the life and the right to enter heaven gates, specially if that person recieved the faith of thier righteousness and right as a seed of Abraham.
All I know is the grace of Christ covers everything for us,
Like Jesus said; IT IS FINISHED
God Bless
Kevin
New member
C.Moore,
Down towards the bottom of your post, you stated that you agreed with the verses I quoted regarding obedience. Yet, I see that you were unable to answer the simple questions I posed about them. If you took the time to answer them, you would realize that obeying His commandments plays a definite role in our salvation.
So you can't find one. That's all you have to say. Shouldn't that raise a red flag (the answer to this question is YES). You choose to follow a doctrine in which there is NO Biblical example of.. There are plenty of conversions that I can point out that support my view.
Incidentally, about John 3:16, it doesn't do any good to believe in Him if you don't do what He says is necessary to be saved. You might as well say "I believe in you Lord, but I don't think I have to do what you say in order to be saved!". Sounds like sound logic to me!
So you can't think about it because that would actually cause you to test your viewpoint against what the Bible says, and you're afraid of what that conclusion might be. Sad.
Will you ever address my simple question and answer format about this very thing, or continue to sidestep it like it doesn't exist? You say you agree with the verses, yet avoid my questions about them. You have ZERO biblical evidence to show that obedience to Christ's commandments isn't necessary for salvation. I have provided MANY to support that it is necessary. Read them. Answer the simple questions. Then reconcile your answers with your view that it's not necessary to obey Christ's commandments.
Tsk... tsk. If you're going to quote me implying that we agree on something, don't leave out a crucial part of what I said. This is what I said: I'll agree that it was because of their faith in God that they obyed what He told them to do, but belief only didn't save them... it was their faith and obedience that saved them. I underlined what you conveniently left out.
And your point? I've agreed to this some time ago. I agree with you that without faith it is impossible to please God -- BUT it's not a faith that is dead unto itself, it is a faith that is alive with works of obedience.
Again you do not answer my simple question. Do you believe that those people would have been saved if they ONLY believed and DIDN'T obyed God's command to buid the ark? Yes or no? Simple question, can you answer it?
You don't know what "through" means? Baptism (the action) now saves you though (by the means of) the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The question at hand is what action do we have to do to be saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ? What is that action????
I'm not too sure exactly what you're trying to get at here. The meaning of Jesus in me is that I've believed in Him and obyed His commandments and therefore I am in His saving graces. That grace, can of course, be lost if we turn our backs on Him. We are not done deal saved until Jesus says yae or nae on judgement day.
And your proof texts of this is where....?
When you've heard and obeyed the gospel.
What kind of question is that? When the gospel is preached to somebody, they are (or should be) told of Jesus and the fact that He died and was resurrected. After hearing the gospel, they should obey it... being baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, just like in Acts 2:38.
There you go again, leaving out crucial parts of my arguments. Here, let's see what I really said: He had a good conscience towards God because he had heard and obeyed the gospel. I underlined what you conveniently left out, again. There's no way the eunuch would have a clear conscience towards God if he heard the gospel but didn't obey it. The fact is, he heard the gospel AND obeyed it (being baptized), and then he went on his way rejoicing.
How can a person "die to thier flesh" before baptism, when it is baptism that is the action by which we die with Christ? Baptism is HOW we die with Christ, yet you assert that we die to our flesh BEFORE baptism. Where is your Biblical proof to validate this assertion? I have evidence to show that baptism is how we die with Christ (Romans 6:4). Where is yours?
I understand what you are saying. It's evident that God is very important to both of us. It's just a shame we can't agree on certain things. You are a very nice individual, and I truly believe that you have the best of intentions, but the word of God is the word of God, and I will stand up for what it says.
Indeed he does. The fact that there are so many people who only give credence to part of the Bible instead of all of it is proof of this.
I also noticed that you totally avoided one of my questions to you, so I'll ask it again:
As I said before, works of obedience does play a role in our salvation, or how would you explain the fact that the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into HELL because of their lack of good works towards other people? Were they or were they not thrown in Hell because of their lack of good works? Answer this very simple question, C.Moore! Answer it... I dare you.
Down towards the bottom of your post, you stated that you agreed with the verses I quoted regarding obedience. Yet, I see that you were unable to answer the simple questions I posed about them. If you took the time to answer them, you would realize that obeying His commandments plays a definite role in our salvation.
So you can't find one. That's all you have to say. Shouldn't that raise a red flag (the answer to this question is YES). You choose to follow a doctrine in which there is NO Biblical example of.. There are plenty of conversions that I can point out that support my view.
Incidentally, about John 3:16, it doesn't do any good to believe in Him if you don't do what He says is necessary to be saved. You might as well say "I believe in you Lord, but I don't think I have to do what you say in order to be saved!". Sounds like sound logic to me!
So you can't think about it because that would actually cause you to test your viewpoint against what the Bible says, and you're afraid of what that conclusion might be. Sad.
Will you ever address my simple question and answer format about this very thing, or continue to sidestep it like it doesn't exist? You say you agree with the verses, yet avoid my questions about them. You have ZERO biblical evidence to show that obedience to Christ's commandments isn't necessary for salvation. I have provided MANY to support that it is necessary. Read them. Answer the simple questions. Then reconcile your answers with your view that it's not necessary to obey Christ's commandments.
Tsk... tsk. If you're going to quote me implying that we agree on something, don't leave out a crucial part of what I said. This is what I said: I'll agree that it was because of their faith in God that they obyed what He told them to do, but belief only didn't save them... it was their faith and obedience that saved them. I underlined what you conveniently left out.
And your point? I've agreed to this some time ago. I agree with you that without faith it is impossible to please God -- BUT it's not a faith that is dead unto itself, it is a faith that is alive with works of obedience.
Again you do not answer my simple question. Do you believe that those people would have been saved if they ONLY believed and DIDN'T obyed God's command to buid the ark? Yes or no? Simple question, can you answer it?
You don't know what "through" means? Baptism (the action) now saves you though (by the means of) the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The question at hand is what action do we have to do to be saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ? What is that action????
I'm not too sure exactly what you're trying to get at here. The meaning of Jesus in me is that I've believed in Him and obyed His commandments and therefore I am in His saving graces. That grace, can of course, be lost if we turn our backs on Him. We are not done deal saved until Jesus says yae or nae on judgement day.
And your proof texts of this is where....?
When you've heard and obeyed the gospel.
What kind of question is that? When the gospel is preached to somebody, they are (or should be) told of Jesus and the fact that He died and was resurrected. After hearing the gospel, they should obey it... being baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, just like in Acts 2:38.
There you go again, leaving out crucial parts of my arguments. Here, let's see what I really said: He had a good conscience towards God because he had heard and obeyed the gospel. I underlined what you conveniently left out, again. There's no way the eunuch would have a clear conscience towards God if he heard the gospel but didn't obey it. The fact is, he heard the gospel AND obeyed it (being baptized), and then he went on his way rejoicing.
How can a person "die to thier flesh" before baptism, when it is baptism that is the action by which we die with Christ? Baptism is HOW we die with Christ, yet you assert that we die to our flesh BEFORE baptism. Where is your Biblical proof to validate this assertion? I have evidence to show that baptism is how we die with Christ (Romans 6:4). Where is yours?
I understand what you are saying. It's evident that God is very important to both of us. It's just a shame we can't agree on certain things. You are a very nice individual, and I truly believe that you have the best of intentions, but the word of God is the word of God, and I will stand up for what it says.
Indeed he does. The fact that there are so many people who only give credence to part of the Bible instead of all of it is proof of this.
I also noticed that you totally avoided one of my questions to you, so I'll ask it again:
As I said before, works of obedience does play a role in our salvation, or how would you explain the fact that the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into HELL because of their lack of good works towards other people? Were they or were they not thrown in Hell because of their lack of good works? Answer this very simple question, C.Moore! Answer it... I dare you.
Last edited:
P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
still going
Evangelion
New member
It would end a whole lot sooner if they'd only address our arguments.
Evangelion
New member
Yea, verily.
c.moore
New member
I like to answer your questions biblically
I like to answer your questions biblically
hello kevin
before I begin with the answers I woould like to say that I have found alot of so call biblical dotrines about thing that are not inthe will of God .
I heard from His saving grace say that he is a chritian but he doesn`t beleive in the cross and the new testament is only man made, and I`ve seen people like the Jehovah witness back up that jesus is not God biblically , and I seen Mormons back up their doctrine that they must also work for their salvation and their whole religious doctrine is based on water baptism and external works, even in their mormon book they have a scripture saying that they are saved by grace after all we can do 2Nephi 25:23.
I have this from a ex- mormon, and he said that he left the church because he found out that he must trust God and not his own works, according to Ac:4:12: Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
the next scripture that open his heart to leave the cult was the scripture Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I found out the truth that he he went on his own works he is boasting on all that he did, and worked for and obeyed for,but he finally found that relationship with Jesus is what he only works for praise God.
The Muslims think the same that they must work to get into their paradise , and go to mecca so many times to be saved , and they have to pray 5 times a day , and wash their feets and go through their rituals bowing to their allah god to work their way to heaven. A ex muslim said they are tired of all the works and they still don`t know if they will go to heaven.
jehovah witness fight t9o give out as many watch tower papers and win as many people to their society so they can gain points in their new kingdom. they are always trying to earn and obey their way to the new kingdom on earth. SAD
this is way I have so much Joy because I have my confidence in my Faith alone in the grace that I am a Son as soon as I believed and was washed by the blood of Jesus , and started my relationship with my Father Jesus.
I think before a farmer plants he must believe that the seeds he has will turn into a harvest, so the farmer will only first plant only if he believes that the seed will work and he will first see his plantation, and harvest in his mind, and this will help him to plant the seed and see to it that the seeds grow into a good harvest by his works after his first believing.
When someone gives me a car as a gift and say drive to work with it and travel with it because this will make them happy to see me blessed, and I say no, I must first do all I can for you and obey everything you ask and obey your every commands, then after maybe my 40 to 70 year of working for you and obeying, I will be able to take your gift.
So is your understanding of obeying right kevin?
When someone gives me a brand new Jet Plane as a gift and says it is a free gift, should I turn around and says NO,NO, I must first work for it ,and obey you so you can see if I am ready to take the gift.
How do you think the person who gave the gift feel?
So is by the Grace of God, freely given to us, and the gift of being saved by the blood of Jesus.
I even seen people says healing has stop because they don`t have no power, in them and the HOly Spirit is not in their churches, because they are caught up in their own works and they doN´t let the Holy Spirt work.
I see christians take the bible out of context because they say women should not preach using 1 cor to back their doctrine up and I seen many women that have help nations get saved like Joyce Meyer, and Gloria Copeland, Taffy Dollar ,and if they let some people deceive them many would be lost, or better to say the will of God would have been slow downed.
The devil is alway doing anything possible to stop unity, and understanding one another.
You said we have our difference in belief , but let me tell you how dangerious this is.
Let`s take a piece of pie that look so good from the outside and I am hungry, and you want to give me a piece of this pie, but you say C.Moore I have made this pie and I know how to cook the best pie in the world and I even had a study in cooking as a chief cook, but I mixed only one tea spoon of a deadly poison in the pie , for sure I, and noone else will eat you pie no matter how you show how good it looks.
But Hey; you might get a couple of fools who might still take the chance eat your pie, or you doctrine of water baptism.
I know by my pie I offer many wil take the pie because I can promise there is no poison in my pie, specially when they see other eat and be happy, Joyful, peacefuy, and full, and gentle, and have more love, and overflow in life and understanding and they see the powers flowing out of them and they see that they have the right to raise the dead heal the sick, help the needy without going broke and etc praise God.
I think people like this kind of fruits.
I remember talkinmg to some mormon elders and one started crying in my house tears that it just can`t be that easy to be saved, only by Faith only and by the grace of God.
I told him it`s true, but his partner said he will tell his president if he doesn`t straighten up and work. what a same what the devil is doing using even the bible.:down:
Sorry Kevin that I didn`t answer your quetion yet ,but I will start on the next post I just got carryed away in my typing and my relationship with God sometime just start flowing out of me .
I`ll have to stop, because I think I am on my tv program preaching again.
I`ll be back.
God Bless you
I like to answer your questions biblically
hello kevin
before I begin with the answers I woould like to say that I have found alot of so call biblical dotrines about thing that are not inthe will of God .
I heard from His saving grace say that he is a chritian but he doesn`t beleive in the cross and the new testament is only man made, and I`ve seen people like the Jehovah witness back up that jesus is not God biblically , and I seen Mormons back up their doctrine that they must also work for their salvation and their whole religious doctrine is based on water baptism and external works, even in their mormon book they have a scripture saying that they are saved by grace after all we can do 2Nephi 25:23.
I have this from a ex- mormon, and he said that he left the church because he found out that he must trust God and not his own works, according to Ac:4:12: Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
the next scripture that open his heart to leave the cult was the scripture Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I found out the truth that he he went on his own works he is boasting on all that he did, and worked for and obeyed for,but he finally found that relationship with Jesus is what he only works for praise God.
The Muslims think the same that they must work to get into their paradise , and go to mecca so many times to be saved , and they have to pray 5 times a day , and wash their feets and go through their rituals bowing to their allah god to work their way to heaven. A ex muslim said they are tired of all the works and they still don`t know if they will go to heaven.
jehovah witness fight t9o give out as many watch tower papers and win as many people to their society so they can gain points in their new kingdom. they are always trying to earn and obey their way to the new kingdom on earth. SAD
this is way I have so much Joy because I have my confidence in my Faith alone in the grace that I am a Son as soon as I believed and was washed by the blood of Jesus , and started my relationship with my Father Jesus.
I think before a farmer plants he must believe that the seeds he has will turn into a harvest, so the farmer will only first plant only if he believes that the seed will work and he will first see his plantation, and harvest in his mind, and this will help him to plant the seed and see to it that the seeds grow into a good harvest by his works after his first believing.
When someone gives me a car as a gift and say drive to work with it and travel with it because this will make them happy to see me blessed, and I say no, I must first do all I can for you and obey everything you ask and obey your every commands, then after maybe my 40 to 70 year of working for you and obeying, I will be able to take your gift.
So is your understanding of obeying right kevin?
When someone gives me a brand new Jet Plane as a gift and says it is a free gift, should I turn around and says NO,NO, I must first work for it ,and obey you so you can see if I am ready to take the gift.
How do you think the person who gave the gift feel?
So is by the Grace of God, freely given to us, and the gift of being saved by the blood of Jesus.
I even seen people says healing has stop because they don`t have no power, in them and the HOly Spirit is not in their churches, because they are caught up in their own works and they doN´t let the Holy Spirt work.
I see christians take the bible out of context because they say women should not preach using 1 cor to back their doctrine up and I seen many women that have help nations get saved like Joyce Meyer, and Gloria Copeland, Taffy Dollar ,and if they let some people deceive them many would be lost, or better to say the will of God would have been slow downed.
The devil is alway doing anything possible to stop unity, and understanding one another.
You said we have our difference in belief , but let me tell you how dangerious this is.
Let`s take a piece of pie that look so good from the outside and I am hungry, and you want to give me a piece of this pie, but you say C.Moore I have made this pie and I know how to cook the best pie in the world and I even had a study in cooking as a chief cook, but I mixed only one tea spoon of a deadly poison in the pie , for sure I, and noone else will eat you pie no matter how you show how good it looks.
But Hey; you might get a couple of fools who might still take the chance eat your pie, or you doctrine of water baptism.
I know by my pie I offer many wil take the pie because I can promise there is no poison in my pie, specially when they see other eat and be happy, Joyful, peacefuy, and full, and gentle, and have more love, and overflow in life and understanding and they see the powers flowing out of them and they see that they have the right to raise the dead heal the sick, help the needy without going broke and etc praise God.
I think people like this kind of fruits.
I remember talkinmg to some mormon elders and one started crying in my house tears that it just can`t be that easy to be saved, only by Faith only and by the grace of God.
I told him it`s true, but his partner said he will tell his president if he doesn`t straighten up and work. what a same what the devil is doing using even the bible.:down:
Sorry Kevin that I didn`t answer your quetion yet ,but I will start on the next post I just got carryed away in my typing and my relationship with God sometime just start flowing out of me .
I`ll have to stop, because I think I am on my tv program preaching again.
I`ll be back.
God Bless you
JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: What Do You Know About Baptism?
Re: Re: What Do You Know About Baptism?
c.moore,
Instead of asking me question why don't you address the points that I made in my last post? Seems like there is enough "meat" there for you to chew on awhile.
JustAChristian
Re: Re: What Do You Know About Baptism?
Originally posted by c.moore
Hello JustAChristian
Quote :c.moore
When did we become sinners ?
When is the blood of Jesus used in salvation or being saved?
Is the Blood of Jesus in effect after the water baptism or before on us?
When are we righteous, after baptism or before?
When are we Justifyed ,after baptism or before?
When are we forgiven of our sins , after baptism or before?
Can a person enter Heaven if he is righteous through Jesus Christ?
can a person enter heaven if he is just through Jesus christ?
When does a person recieve the Holy Spirit?
I hope to here from you soon
peace
c.moore,
Instead of asking me question why don't you address the points that I made in my last post? Seems like there is enough "meat" there for you to chew on awhile.
JustAChristian
Evangelion
New member
Looks like it's "Drag 'em out of their houses and beat them savagely in public" time again...
Kevin
New member
C.Moore,
You can compare me to other religions all you want. But the fact is that I'm debating the Holy Bible with you, not the Book of Mormon or any other false literature. Thus far, you have not been able to refute my points, which come from the Bible. All the empty religious comparisons in the world doesn't change the fact that your doctrine, in which you can't find one biblical conversion of faith only after the church was instituted, doesn't stack up to the teachings of the word of God. It doesn't do any good to spew out testimonials that aren't Biblically backed.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I will fully financially reimburse anybody on this planet who is willing to raise a corpse as the apostles did. You, or anybody else, don't have anything to lose if you're right, right? You can sing it, but can you bring it?
Where proof texts to back your hollow theory? And incidentally, I wouldn't call people who can read and understand the Bible "fools". It is indeed foolish to pick and choose part of what the Bible teaches and make it into its own man-made doctrine. That's foolish.
Again, until you can prove Biblically, not philosophically, this means nothing. Hollow.
I look forward to your answers.
You can compare me to other religions all you want. But the fact is that I'm debating the Holy Bible with you, not the Book of Mormon or any other false literature. Thus far, you have not been able to refute my points, which come from the Bible. All the empty religious comparisons in the world doesn't change the fact that your doctrine, in which you can't find one biblical conversion of faith only after the church was instituted, doesn't stack up to the teachings of the word of God. It doesn't do any good to spew out testimonials that aren't Biblically backed.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I will fully financially reimburse anybody on this planet who is willing to raise a corpse as the apostles did. You, or anybody else, don't have anything to lose if you're right, right? You can sing it, but can you bring it?
Where proof texts to back your hollow theory? And incidentally, I wouldn't call people who can read and understand the Bible "fools". It is indeed foolish to pick and choose part of what the Bible teaches and make it into its own man-made doctrine. That's foolish.
Again, until you can prove Biblically, not philosophically, this means nothing. Hollow.
I look forward to your answers.
c.moore
New member
kevin
Ok, then please answer the following questions: c.moore
Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.
Who will have rights to the tree of Life? Those that are his children washed under the Blood of Jesus , and thoses who have a relationship with Jesus Christ and trust Jesus as their Father._________
Note- no works required for salavtion in this verse , there is only mention of being blessed by obeying ,and to enter through the gates instead of just being at the heaven door with no blessings and rewards.
Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
To whom is Jesus the author of eternal salvation? __all who obey_______________ Is Jesus the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him?_____yes
Note: Jesus is still the author or the hope and beginner for anyone to get saved by Jesus because the bible says: Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; —even with all your obeying.
Romans 2:6-9
6) who "will render to each one according to his deeds."
7) eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8) but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
9) tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
What will happen to those who "do not obey the truth"? tribulation and anguish .
Note the truth is accepting Jesus Christ , because the bible says jesus is the truth the way .
John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.
Those who _trust in Jesus ___________ shall never see death. Who WILL see death? _many sinners ___ Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. ____________
1 John 2:3-6
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Is the truth in someone who claims to know Him and does not keep His commandments? _no because _ 1Jo:1:6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo:1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
___ What does verse 4 call those who claim to know Him and do not keep His comandments? ____liars ________
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? __ he who does the will of God __________________ Who will NOT abide forever?_thoughs that don’t do the will_________________
Shall I go on? After answering those questions, how do you reconcile your viewpoint that obeying His commandments is not a salvation issue, in light of the content of these verses?
Look for yourself kevin did you see salvation iwritten in any of those sriptures?,
I didn`t see any .
God bless
Ok, then please answer the following questions: c.moore
Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.
Who will have rights to the tree of Life? Those that are his children washed under the Blood of Jesus , and thoses who have a relationship with Jesus Christ and trust Jesus as their Father._________
Note- no works required for salavtion in this verse , there is only mention of being blessed by obeying ,and to enter through the gates instead of just being at the heaven door with no blessings and rewards.
Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
To whom is Jesus the author of eternal salvation? __all who obey_______________ Is Jesus the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him?_____yes
Note: Jesus is still the author or the hope and beginner for anyone to get saved by Jesus because the bible says: Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; —even with all your obeying.
Romans 2:6-9
6) who "will render to each one according to his deeds."
7) eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8) but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
9) tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
What will happen to those who "do not obey the truth"? tribulation and anguish .
Note the truth is accepting Jesus Christ , because the bible says jesus is the truth the way .
John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.
Those who _trust in Jesus ___________ shall never see death. Who WILL see death? _many sinners ___ Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. ____________
1 John 2:3-6
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Is the truth in someone who claims to know Him and does not keep His commandments? _no because _ 1Jo:1:6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo:1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
___ What does verse 4 call those who claim to know Him and do not keep His comandments? ____liars ________
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? __ he who does the will of God __________________ Who will NOT abide forever?_thoughs that don’t do the will_________________
Shall I go on? After answering those questions, how do you reconcile your viewpoint that obeying His commandments is not a salvation issue, in light of the content of these verses?
Look for yourself kevin did you see salvation iwritten in any of those sriptures?,
I didn`t see any .
God bless
c.moore
New member
Quote by justachristian
What Do you really know about water baptism. It is such a vital subject, but one of the most discounted doctrines taught in the Bible. This is a second part of the subject of water baptism that I began in our last lesson.
Recounting some of the important fact that I have already said, If you believe you are saved before you are baptized, then you believe you can be saved outside of Christ. I invite you to read Ephesians 1:3 and Galatians 3:27. If you find that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, and that we are baptized into Christ, then you must conclude that since salvation is a spiritual blessing obtained in Christ, then we are not saved until we are baptized into Christ.
We have learned that the Bible actually tells us that baptism saves us. Read for yourself in 1 Peter 3:20.21. Actually anytime baptism is mentioned in connection with being saved, baptism always comes first, See Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:38, and Act 22:16.
If you take the position that one is saved at the point of faith only, then you have to throw out the scriptures on repentance, confession, and baptism. The Bible in fact teaches that we are not saved by faith only (see James 2:17-20).
Every act of conversion in the book of Acts culminated in the people being baptized. There is not an exception. In fact, each had to believe, repent, confess, and be baptized before they were saved. How do I know this? It’s because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow (Heb. 13:8). God does not have a special preference for anyone. All are treated the same under the law of Christ (Acts 10:34-35; Gal. 3:28).
Infant baptism by means of sprinkling, is popular in some denominations, but there is not a single example of infant baptism. Some believe that infants are born with sin that they inherited from Adam. However the Bible plainly teaches that sin is not inherited (Ezekiel 18:20). “ The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” There is no sound reason to believe infants have sins. Moses also wrote what God said after the flood, “…And the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth…” Whatever you read in the Bible, it must be interpreted in light of these biblical references in order to harmonize totally. When one is baptized in the scriptures, it is a total voluntary acts performed after a confession; actual or implied. Infants can not perform this voluntary act of obedience, therefore baptism is not for infants. In fact sprinkling for Baptism is not scriptural.
Baptism is shown in the Bible to be by immersion ( Romans 6:3-5). It is clearly shown to be a burial in a watery grave to rise to walk in newness of life. Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). If we deny the purpose of baptism, we deny so many verses of scripture and say that we can be,
a. ...saved without obeying Christ (Mark 16:16).
b. ...saved without entering the Kingdom (John 3:5).
c. ...saved without the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
d. ...saved without the blotting out of sins (Acts 3:19).
e. ...saved without the washing away of sins (Acts 3:19)
f. ...saved without entering Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3).
g. ...saved without the death & blood of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
h. ...saved without the resurrection of Christ (Rom. 6:4).
i. ...saved without walking in newness of life (Rom. 6:4).
j. ...saved without being redeemed (Eph. 1:7).
k. ...saved without being in Christ (Gal 3:26-27).
l. ...saved without being a child of God (Eph. 1:3).
m. ...saved without putting on Christ (Gal. 3:27).
Quote c.moore
No , we are saved as soon as we repent and believe and trust Jesus not our works.
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro:10:11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ro:10:12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) (by the resurrection of Jesus ChristJ
the relationship and good conscience is what saves you towards God.
Quote Justachristian
It is clearly shown to be a burial in a watery grave to rise to walk in newness of life. Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Quote c.moore
Ac:2:37: Now when they heard this,( they were pricked in their heart), and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Note : first they ask how and what shall they do and notice they wewre pricked or better to say moved in their heart to believe and 2nd repent like in ROM 10:9, and 3nd receive baptism to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost like Jesus did when he came out the water the dove fell on HIM., not salvation.
We are justfied by faith and we are righteous by faith . Ro:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ro:5:2: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ro:4:3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ro:4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
peace and God bless
What Do you really know about water baptism. It is such a vital subject, but one of the most discounted doctrines taught in the Bible. This is a second part of the subject of water baptism that I began in our last lesson.
Recounting some of the important fact that I have already said, If you believe you are saved before you are baptized, then you believe you can be saved outside of Christ. I invite you to read Ephesians 1:3 and Galatians 3:27. If you find that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, and that we are baptized into Christ, then you must conclude that since salvation is a spiritual blessing obtained in Christ, then we are not saved until we are baptized into Christ.
We have learned that the Bible actually tells us that baptism saves us. Read for yourself in 1 Peter 3:20.21. Actually anytime baptism is mentioned in connection with being saved, baptism always comes first, See Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:38, and Act 22:16.
If you take the position that one is saved at the point of faith only, then you have to throw out the scriptures on repentance, confession, and baptism. The Bible in fact teaches that we are not saved by faith only (see James 2:17-20).
Every act of conversion in the book of Acts culminated in the people being baptized. There is not an exception. In fact, each had to believe, repent, confess, and be baptized before they were saved. How do I know this? It’s because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow (Heb. 13:8). God does not have a special preference for anyone. All are treated the same under the law of Christ (Acts 10:34-35; Gal. 3:28).
Infant baptism by means of sprinkling, is popular in some denominations, but there is not a single example of infant baptism. Some believe that infants are born with sin that they inherited from Adam. However the Bible plainly teaches that sin is not inherited (Ezekiel 18:20). “ The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” There is no sound reason to believe infants have sins. Moses also wrote what God said after the flood, “…And the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth…” Whatever you read in the Bible, it must be interpreted in light of these biblical references in order to harmonize totally. When one is baptized in the scriptures, it is a total voluntary acts performed after a confession; actual or implied. Infants can not perform this voluntary act of obedience, therefore baptism is not for infants. In fact sprinkling for Baptism is not scriptural.
Baptism is shown in the Bible to be by immersion ( Romans 6:3-5). It is clearly shown to be a burial in a watery grave to rise to walk in newness of life. Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). If we deny the purpose of baptism, we deny so many verses of scripture and say that we can be,
a. ...saved without obeying Christ (Mark 16:16).
b. ...saved without entering the Kingdom (John 3:5).
c. ...saved without the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
d. ...saved without the blotting out of sins (Acts 3:19).
e. ...saved without the washing away of sins (Acts 3:19)
f. ...saved without entering Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3).
g. ...saved without the death & blood of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
h. ...saved without the resurrection of Christ (Rom. 6:4).
i. ...saved without walking in newness of life (Rom. 6:4).
j. ...saved without being redeemed (Eph. 1:7).
k. ...saved without being in Christ (Gal 3:26-27).
l. ...saved without being a child of God (Eph. 1:3).
m. ...saved without putting on Christ (Gal. 3:27).
Quote c.moore
No , we are saved as soon as we repent and believe and trust Jesus not our works.
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro:10:11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ro:10:12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) (by the resurrection of Jesus ChristJ
the relationship and good conscience is what saves you towards God.
Quote Justachristian
It is clearly shown to be a burial in a watery grave to rise to walk in newness of life. Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Quote c.moore
Ac:2:37: Now when they heard this,( they were pricked in their heart), and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Note : first they ask how and what shall they do and notice they wewre pricked or better to say moved in their heart to believe and 2nd repent like in ROM 10:9, and 3nd receive baptism to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost like Jesus did when he came out the water the dove fell on HIM., not salvation.
We are justfied by faith and we are righteous by faith . Ro:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ro:5:2: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ro:4:3: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ro:4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
peace and God bless
Kevin
New member
Are you serious?
Are you serious?
C.Moore,
You have GOT to be kidding me!!
Here, I'll copy and paste them again, and this time I'll add points in there to link them to salvation, ok? The new points will be in BOLD.
Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.
Who will have rights to the tree of Life? _________________
WILL PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS TO THE TREE OF LIFE BE SAVED?___________ WILL PEOPLE WHO HAVE RIGHTS TO THE TREE OF LIFE BE SAVED?____________
Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
To whom is Jesus the author of eternal salvation? _________________ Is Jesus the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him?_____________________
IF JESUS IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION TO A PERSON, IS THAT PERSON SAVED?___________
Romans 2:6-9
6) who "will render to each one according to his deeds."
7) eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8) but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
9) tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
What will happen to those who "do not obey the truth"? ________________
IF YOU ARE ENDURING "TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH" ARE YOU SAVED?______________
John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.
Those who ____________ shall never see death. Who WILL see death? ________________ ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SEE'S DEATH SAVED?__________
1 John 2:3-6
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Is the truth in someone who claims to know Him and does not keep His commandments? ______ What does verse 4 call those who claim to know Him and do not keep His comandments? ____________ WILL LIARS BE IN HEAVEN, C.MOORE?________
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? ____________________ Who will NOT abide forever?__________________ ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ABIDE FOREVER SAVED?________
If you can't see that these verses have an impact on our salvation, than you are not fully comprehending what these verses are saying. Either that or your pride will not allow you to answer these very simple questions.
Do you visit schools with children in them, C.Moore? I would invite you to print off the verses and questions (without your editing) that I've posted and give them the test that I've given you. Your pride is REALLY showing.
And you still avoided this simple question. All I'm asking is for a simple YES OR NO. Can you answer this YES or NO question, C.Moore?!:
As I said before, works of obedience does play a role in our salvation, or how would you explain the fact that the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into HELL because of their lack of good works towards other people? Were they or were they not thrown in Hell because of their lack of good works? Answer this very simple question, C.Moore! Answer it... I dare you.
Are you serious?
C.Moore,
You have GOT to be kidding me!!
Here, I'll copy and paste them again, and this time I'll add points in there to link them to salvation, ok? The new points will be in BOLD.
Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.
Who will have rights to the tree of Life? _________________
WILL PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS TO THE TREE OF LIFE BE SAVED?___________ WILL PEOPLE WHO HAVE RIGHTS TO THE TREE OF LIFE BE SAVED?____________
Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
To whom is Jesus the author of eternal salvation? _________________ Is Jesus the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him?_____________________
IF JESUS IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION TO A PERSON, IS THAT PERSON SAVED?___________
Romans 2:6-9
6) who "will render to each one according to his deeds."
7) eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8) but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
9) tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
What will happen to those who "do not obey the truth"? ________________
IF YOU ARE ENDURING "TRIBULATION AND ANGUISH" ARE YOU SAVED?______________
John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.
Those who ____________ shall never see death. Who WILL see death? ________________ ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SEE'S DEATH SAVED?__________
1 John 2:3-6
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Is the truth in someone who claims to know Him and does not keep His commandments? ______ What does verse 4 call those who claim to know Him and do not keep His comandments? ____________ WILL LIARS BE IN HEAVEN, C.MOORE?________
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? ____________________ Who will NOT abide forever?__________________ ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ABIDE FOREVER SAVED?________
If you can't see that these verses have an impact on our salvation, than you are not fully comprehending what these verses are saying. Either that or your pride will not allow you to answer these very simple questions.
Do you visit schools with children in them, C.Moore? I would invite you to print off the verses and questions (without your editing) that I've posted and give them the test that I've given you. Your pride is REALLY showing.
And you still avoided this simple question. All I'm asking is for a simple YES OR NO. Can you answer this YES or NO question, C.Moore?!:
As I said before, works of obedience does play a role in our salvation, or how would you explain the fact that the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into HELL because of their lack of good works towards other people? Were they or were they not thrown in Hell because of their lack of good works? Answer this very simple question, C.Moore! Answer it... I dare you.
