c.moore,
You ask how do you get eternal life? We get it by receiving ,or accepting the resurection through Jesus Christ, according also to Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
So, we get it from accepting the gospel, right? Don't you think that part of accepting it is obeying it's commandments? The command to be baptized is part of the gospel message. If you don't obey it, your not accepting what was preached. There are many examples of conversion in the Bible, and they all included baptism. Baptism is part of the message. Where is an example of a faith only conversion, after the chruch was instituted? Where?
Regarding Romans 4:5, do you not realize that he is referring to works of the law (the Mosaic Law) which we are NOT under? It's like you search for any verse in the Bible that refers to not doing works and try to apply it towards saying that it not necessary to obey Christ's commandments. You are not dividing the Bible correctly.
If you'd just think about it, it's quite rediculous. Jesus comes along and gives people commandments that they are to follow for salvation. Then, in your view, Paul comes along and just says believe, implying that obedience doesn't play a role in our salvation, despite the words of Jesus. Think about what you are saying. You need to understand the difference between the works of the law (which you keep referring to), and the works of obedience, as commanded by Christ. Not one time would Paul, or any other apostle, claim that one doesn't need to obey Christ's commandments. Never.
1Pe:3:20:... and I want you to see that they was saved or put their trust in God by getting into the boat before the rain and water came.
They were saved "before" getting into the ark? Not even. If they hadn't obeyed God, Noah wouldn't have built the ark in the first place. If they didn't get into the ark, they
would have drown with everybody else. I'll agree that it was because of their faith in God that they
obyed what He told them to do, but belief only didn't save them... it was their faith
and obedience that saved them. Do you actually believe that they could have believed and not obyed God (not building the ark or getting into it), and still be saved?
1Pe:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Yes, the like figure,
baptism, now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus.
Notice in this verse Kevin what is quoted in the bible: The( like figure) whereunto even baptism or in the living bible says: That ,by the way, is what baptism pictures for us:In baptism we( show) that we (have been saved) from death.
1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism now
saves us. You are trying to say that we are saved
before we do the thing that
now saves us - baptism. There is nothing in there that even hints they we are saved before baptism, which now
saves us... the antitype/figuretype as opposed to the flood waters. Just as the flood saved them from the perverse generations, the antitype, baptism,
now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
This is proof that baptism is only a symbol , and I think you know what is figure and figure is not the real thing
This just shows that you don't understand what it's talkaing about when it mentions the antitype, or figure type. It's simply comparing the salvation by means of flood waters to the figure type (something that resembles another... it's countertype) to that which
now saves us, baptism. In a nutshell, Peter is saying that just as the flood waters saved 8 souls, baptism now saves us. Nothing in there that remotely hints at it being a symbol of us already being saved. It would go directly against Romans 6 where Paul says that it is he who has died with Christ through baptism are the ones who have been freed from sin (being saved). You CAN'T be saved before dying with Him through baptism, because you're NOT free from sin UNITL you have died with Him through baptism.
Notice again in the scripture you quoted from the bible says: the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
Simply put, baptism is commanded of us. By us complying with the command to be baptized, we can approach God with confidence and a
clear conscience towards God,
because we have obeyed His command to be baptized and put away our old man of sin as spoken of in Romans 6. Knowing that God commanded baptism, and knowing what it does for us, that it frees us from sin, would somebody have a good conscience if they didn't obey this command? No.
A great example of somebody expressing their good conscience towards God can be found in Acts 8:39.
After Philip baptized the eunuch,
he went on his way, rejoicing. He had a good conscience towards God because he had heard and
obeyed the gospel.
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: this is what saves you Kevin according to your scripture
Re-read the scripture. It says that
baptism now saves you
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. According to that verse,
baptism is the action spoken of that now saves us... it saves us
through the resurrection of Christ. The resurrection of Christ
won't do you any good unless you have died with Him though baptism, thus freeing yourself from sin, walking in the newness of life.
I have ask God please give me the wisdom to explain your truth to those who are decieved
Decieved? No deception here. Test the spirits, C.Moore. Your beliefs simply are not stacking up to the word of God.
I know it is important to obey but it is no way salvation
Ok, then please answer the following questions:
Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.
Who will have rights to the tree of Life? _________________
Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
To whom is Jesus the author of eternal salvation? _________________ Is Jesus the author of eternal salvation to those who don't obey Him?_____________________
Romans 2:6-9
6) who "will render to each one according to his deeds."
7) eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8) but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
9) tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
What will happen to those who "do not obey the truth"? ________________
John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.
Those who ____________ shall
never see death. Who WILL see death? ________________
1 John 2:3-6
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5) But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6) He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Is the truth in someone who claims to know Him and does not keep His commandments? ______ What does verse 4 call those who claim to know Him and do not keep His comandments? ____________
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? ____________________ Who will NOT abide forever?__________________
Shall I go on? After answering those questions, how do you reconcile your viewpoint that obeying His commandments is not a salvation issue, in light of the content of these verses?
Then if baptism is work and it`s a part of salvation, and we are saved by grace not by works, then what is mean by this: Ro:11:6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Again, you are trying to use a passage that speaks about
works of the MOSIAC LAW. We are not under the Mosaic Law, we are under grace, which is exactly what Paul is saying. That grace came with conditions that has to be met
before we can have that grace. God set those conditions not me!
As I said before, works of obedience does play a role in our salvation, or how would you explain the
fact that the people in Matt. 25:41-46 were thrown into
HELL because of their lack of good works towards other people? Were they or were they not thrown in Hell because of their lack of good works? Answer this very simple question, C.Moore! Answer it... I dare you.
Quote kevin
What do you mean? Grace is there for anyone who meets the conditions that God instituted - Faith and obedience to His Son's commandments.
It is those who do His commandments that will have rights to the tree of life (Rev. 22:14). Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him (Heb. 5:9). But you go ahead and keep pretending like these verses don't exist or don't actually mean what they say they do. I find it sad that you only want to give credence to the verses which speak about faith, and not to the ones that mention obedience as well.
Quote c.moore
The bibles say: 2Co:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Look at the first verse in your answer to me (quoted above). It begins with:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
What's the condition here?
IF therefore any man is in Christ. Galatians 3:27 clearly says that it is
those who have been baptized have
put on Christ, which means that we are "in Christ". Baptism does this,
through the resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Now look at the second part of that verse:
he is a new creature: old things are passed away. Sound familiar? Romans 6, which speaks about
baptism and what it does for us!!!! 2 Corinthians 5:17 says that he is a new creation, Romans 6:4 says that we will walk in the newness of life -- a NEW CREATION -- SAME THING!
2 Cor 5:17 speaks about the old things have passed away. Romans 6:6 speaks about how are old man of sin is done away with... SAME THING!
Conclusion: BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST! (1 Peter 3:21)
