The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[c.moore]

Just like to add something to open close spirits

Just like to add something to open close spirits

As I was studying the bible before I went to bed God showed me this ,and it gave me joy to know how Jesus is going to judge us.
Everybody agree`s or most people agree that Jesus is the corner stone of the church or the foundation , and the Believing on Jesus is the beginning of the foundation of salvation.
Many on this post say`s baptism is a requirement but the bible say`s differently because we are not lost when we don`t get baptized but we do loss something,

but" we are no way damn to hell as believers not baptized.

Check this out ,but before to call me a liar or something ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the truth in these verses, and ask that you recieve the deep revelations and interpretaion of the bible this is important in your walk with Jesus, because the devil is a deciever and a good liar, and remember Satan knows the bible better than you and me, that why we need the Holy Spirit to teach us not our own logical carnal mind thinking.
the Bible says this about judgement of our works and baptism is works and I know you know that .

ON JUDGEMENT DAY THIS WILL HAPPEN AND THIS IS ALL WE WILL BE JUDGE FOR AS BELIEVERS .

Ro:8:1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1Co:3:11: For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I how you get what is the bible is saying here ,this is V:I.
1Co:3:12: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
I believe being baptized is the gold build of the foundation of Christ.
1Co:3:13: Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
This is talking about the judgement day my sister, so please pay attention and study this .

1Co:3:14: If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

Praise God! did you see that?
The bible says a reward for our works like baptism, taking the lord supper,doing good works, being obedient, keep the commandments and doing what the commandments say to do obey them and obey the Words of Jesus, so Jesus can reward us on judgement day and say well done my faith son or daughter here is your reward.

Now this is for all those who don`t get baptized and don`t do all the good works and get all the commandments.

1Co:3:15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. :up:

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, PRAISE GOD!
Sorry, I just got excited and jump for joy for a moment because of the Word of God is a light to my path and I love true revelation.
The Word of God bring joy to my soul.

Please get this verse, because this is the verse that puts the frosting on the cake, with the finishing touch.
A person who doesn`t get baptized will for sure suffer a big giant lost : but that person will still come through the golden heavenly gates as a SAVED born again person, A child of God who suffered a great lost which God might not say well done, but why didn`t you obey and get baptized so you can get all the rewards stored up for you.

That why I advise people to get baptized and if you do love the Lord you should get baptized in the name of Jesus or In the name of the HOLY GHOST, or in the name of GOD, the three name is GOD any ways but that another subject.

I think there is another verse in Thess that can use a a reference verse to our rewards and being saved.

I thank God for showing me this and I hope you can accept this in your soul , and I know your spirit already knows the truth.

God Bless peace:up:

 

[deut3019]

I have been asked to supply scriptural reference for my point.
And in studying, I don't know what is right and what is wrong.
I've been taught my whole life that baptism is a symbol, and now in reading Mark 16:16 is see that "whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved." However, later on in the same verse Christ says "but whoever does not BELIEVE will be condemned." There is no mention of condemnation for those who are not baptized, or even of requirement of that baptism.
According to Matthew 3:11, Baptism is a sign of repentance, but John says that Christ will "baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." So, in regards to this entire debate, I have no idea what to say now. I don't know what side I'm on anymore. I am withdrawing all my previous comments on this subject.
IN HIM,
Joe

P.S.--In regards to the whole "in the name of Jesus" thing with Melody, Matthew 28:19 says "baptizing them IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT." I WAS baptized under the name of Jesus and I WAS baptized under the names of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's not a matter of which one, it's a matter of both.

 

[Apollos]

The OT was "nailed to the cross"...

The OT was "nailed to the cross"...

Greetings Jaltus –

Colossians 2:14 – “…having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross…”

Ephesians 2:15 – “…having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances: that He might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace…”

You are saying that neither of these passages is making reference to the OT, so before I answer in full, please tell us… Just what is Paul making reference to in these two passages???

In regards to Matthew 5:17, Jesus did in fact fulfill the law and that is why it is no longer valid. It was fulfilled!

Thankx!

 

[Apollos]

Mark 16:16

Mark 16:16

deut3019 -

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

He that does not believe, would not be baptized, and would be condemned.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Continued from previous....

Continued from previous....

Waterdog,

You said:
-Jesus did baptize with the HS – just as he promised to the apostles… …R-E-A-D slowly… JESUS baptizes with the HS – not man! Seems to me if you get the mud out of your eyes, you might R-E-A-D and understand both what I write and what the Bible is saying.

My reply:
They received the "gift" of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost (Acts 2:38). This gift gave them "power" to be witnesses...

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. Acts 1:7 (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ""ye shall be witnesses unto me"" both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8 (KJV)

They were not to know the "power of God" but (on the contrary) "they were given power"!

For Christ sent me not to (water) baptize, but to preach the gospel (word which is spirit): not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor. 1:18 (KJV)
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1 Cor. 1:19 (KJV)

The power of God unto salvation is "Christ died for our sins"! You will look in vain for this message at Pentecost!!!!

Give me "one" verse where anyone was "baptized with the Holy Ghost" at Pentecost!!!

Dog, you are drowning in your false doctrine!

In Christ
Craig

 

[Apollos]

God is not the author of confusion...

God is not the author of confusion...

HoG -

I have read your last two posts and, well, they are there.

I was hoping you would attempt to answer some of the arguments presented, but you have chosen for the most part to repeat yourself, skip around at random, and and talk in circles.

I believe I have methodically and logically presented my case for baptism, and point for point replied to your doctrine. You on the other hand have......well..... replied.

I am not removing myself from discussion with you by this post, I am merely saying there is not much left to reply to you about at this point. I won't repeat myself just to follow your circular thinking.

If you feel I have not touched on something important to you, just let me know and I will address it.

(What I do not understand at all is your bitterness and anger. For someone supposedly baptized in the Spirit, you do not appear to be bringing forth the fruits of love, joy, and peace. Mayeb you had better check that..... Hmmm??)

 

[HopeofGlory]

Continuing to beat the Dog!!!

Continuing to beat the Dog!!!

Waterdog,


You said:
-You do not understand what John’s baptism was about. What part of my argument about it being for repentance and NOT actually giving the remission of sins did you not understand?? Address my argument – It looked forward to remission of sins – Jesus blood not shed yet so no remission yet - Lk. 24:47, Repentance & remission FIRST at Jerusalem! Well??
-What part of the difference I offered between Christ’s baptism and John’s baptism do you disagree with?? Well??


My reply:
John's baptism was ''''''for the remission of sins""" and anyone with the ability to read should comprehend this much!!!!Your argument is based on your false assumption that
""""remission was not given before the cross"""". You have no argument!!!

1- God gave the Baptist the "power" to give remission of sins!

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; Luke 1:76 (KJV) To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Luke 1:77 (KJV)
Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, Luke 1:78 (KJV)


2- Jesus granted remission of sins before the cross!

And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Mark 2:8 (KJV)
9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? Mark 2:9 (KJV)
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) Mark 2:10 (KJV)
I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. Mark 2:11 (KJV)

3- Jesus gave the apostles the "power" to remit sins!


And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: John 20:22 (KJV)
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:23 (KJV)


This is the same "power" the Baptist had been given yet it was not "THE POWER OF GOD" and "GOD ONLY" to forgive sins. The power given to "men" at Pentecost was temporal and demanded endurance but the "power that only comes from GOD IS ETERNAL.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and DRINKETH MY BLOOD, HATH ETERNAL LIFE and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:54 (KJV)
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. John 6:55 (KJV)
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. John 6:56 (KJV)
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. John 6:57 (KJV)


You will not find this eternal power mentioned at Pentecost!!!!!!

This is a Spiritual message for those still in the flesh!!!!

Dog, why do you keep digging those "wells", as if you will ever find enough water to WASH AWAY YOUR SINS?????

In Christ
Craig

 

[HopeofGlory]

Waterdog,

You said:

-Find in the Mosaical Law where “water baptism” (ei. immersion) was a ritual there as you claim. (That would be Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Dueteronomy. Hey, use all 39 books! Please show it to me when you find it –ok?) Maybe you can show where John’s baptism is found there…hmm? Root around a while there in your pen – maybe you will find it!

My response:
It has been right under your nose all along!!!

A ritual is a customary act or ceremony performed for religious benefit, as the ritual of baptism.

This ritual was performed before the cross. Therefore water baptism was a ritual under the Mosaic law!!!!

The entire Mosaic Law was terminated at the cross and 2 Cor. 3:7-14 is clear. Three times (vs. 7, 11, and 14) the Law is declared cancelled. According to Colossians 2:14, Christ's death "blotted out" the Mosaic system. It Established, as a consequence no penalty for failure to observe the rite of water baptism.

You said:
-Christ’s blood WAS shed for remission of sins. What you perpetually miss is… HOW does man appropriate the salvation that His blood procured for him?? Water baptism is the means selected by God through which man appropriates the salvation He offers to man by His grace! You disagree and you are wrong as usual. You do not know how to obtain remission of sins!
(##But do tell us HOW you think man appropriates salvation from God which is made available by Jesus’ blood. How does man obtain remission of his sin?? Tell us !!)

My reply:

No Dog, it is you that continually misses the truth!!!

Herein is ETERNAL REMISSION..... Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through """FAITH""" in his blood, to declare HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS (not yours) for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25 (KJV)
To declare, I say, AT THIS TIME his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26 (KJV)
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom. 3:27 (KJV)
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Rom. 3:28 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

 

[HopeofGlory]

Continuing to reply to your error!!

Continuing to reply to your error!!

Waterdog,

You said:

-Okay, let’s look at Matthew 28:19 through a pig’s eye because you cannot answer the arguments about it being water baptism. What does it mean to be “BAPTIZED into the name of the Father, Son, and HS” ?? Where in scripture is this baptism practiced ??? You do not know what it means or what you believe about it. [/i]You only know that your BIAS is telling you what it CANNOT be![/i]

My response:

Your "dog logic":

When one is baptized “in the name of Jesus Christ” – they are baptized in the baptism Jesus authorized. THIS baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” is to be “into the name of the Father, Son, and HS” !!

Why? Because YOU said so!!! (((((LOL))))

So when you read in Acts 2, 8, 10, &19, that someone was baptized “in the name of Jesus Christ”, you can know that they were baptized “into the name” of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! This is the ONLY baptism authorized by Jesus Christ for man today! This baptism was revealed just prior to His ascension! This is the only ONE baptism Christ gave & commanded.

Talk about circular reasoning !!! Your conclusion is based on adding the word water to the final words of Christ Jesus. What is your reward for such as this???

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev. 22:18 (KJV)

No "man" ever baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our """FAITH""". 1 John 5:4 (KJV)

And it is the SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6 (KJV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (The Son), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7 (KJV)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the BLOOD: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:8 (KJV)

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1 John 5:9 (KJV)

Compare to:

But I have a greater witness than that of John (a man): for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. John 5:36 (KJV)

We are baptized by the "Spirit" (not man) in the name of the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Ghost when we have "faith" in the finished work of Christ at the Cross.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. 2 Cor. 3:15 (KJV)
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. 2 Cor. 3:16 (KJV)
Now the ""Lord is that Spirit:""" and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (free for the law). 2 Cor. 3:17 (KJV)
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.2 Cor. 3:18 (KJV)


In Christ
Craig

 

[JustAChristian]

Craig says that the apostles baptized with the word. He prefaced 1Cor. 1:17. If you're gonna take that course, you have to be consistant. The Ethopian Eunuch said, " See, here is word, what doth hinder me from being baptized? (Acts 8:36). Is that what he said ? No, he said "....here is WATER! We are not baptized in the word. We are baptized in water and taught the word (Matthew 28:18-20). You're trying anthing you can think of to justify your false doctrine. Why don't you use a little common sense and do a little more studing instead of "cutting and pasting" scripture and then misusing it? Paul's mission, as well as all the apostles, was to preach the gospel. Baptism comes as the end result of preaching. You don't "put the horse before the cart" when it comes to preaching. Anyway, the verse is eliptical. "Christ sent me not to baptize (only) but to preach the gospel (also). Context is the importance of preaching, but they thought being baptized by a certain person was the important thing. Understand context and you can interprate scripture correctly. Christ never said that Holy Spirit baptism would be universally issued. The prophet Joel said that it would be dispensed on "All Flesh". At that time there was TWO flesh, Jew or Gentile. The apostle's baptism represents the flesh of the Jews and Cornelius and his house represents the baptism of the Gentile. There is not another case of Holy Spirit baptism on any other person. Find one other case! Not two or three, just fine one! You can search "til kingdom come"! and you want find it. Water baptism continues today because it is in the gospel of today. Paul taught the same thing in every church. He baptized some in the church at Corinth, and Ephesus and Philippi, and Athens, and wherever he preached. He didn't baptism them in word but in water. There is no Holy Spirit baptism today. The word of God has been confirmed by the miracles of God.(Heb. 2:3-4). The New Testament stands as God point of judgement (Acts 17:30-31) Those that refuse to obey it will be found "weighed in the balance and found wanting". "He that believeth and is baptized (in water) shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). Obedience to this 1st century commandment will remain until the Lord returns.

JustAChristian

 

[Kevin]

Hope,

No "man" ever baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

That's just absurd! If no man ever baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, then would you explain to me and everybody on this forum why Jesus would command MAN to do something that man would never do?!

Apollos isn't adding Jack Squat to the scriptures as you wrongly accuse him of. Jesus authorized ONE baptism for people to be baptized into in Matt 28:19-20, and He commanded MAN to do the baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If not man, than just who do you think Jesus gave this commandment to?

And when Jesus gave MAN this commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that's exactly what they did! When the people in Acts 10:47-48 got baptized "in the name of the Lord", they were baptized in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit as well, because...

1 John 5:7

7) ... there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

If you don't agree that being baptized in the name of the Lord is the same baptism commanded in Great Commission (Matt. 28:19-20), then I challenge you to show me where man got the authority to baptize people in the name of the Lord. People don't just go out and baptize in the name of somebody unless they are authorized or told to do so. Where were they authorized/commanded to do this? The answer is clear.. they were authorized to do this by being commanded of this by Jesus Himself in the Great Commission - Matt. 28:19-20.

Also, if you're telling me that baptism in the name of the Jesus is separate from that of the Father and Holy Spirit, then show me just one scripture where somebody was baptized:

* in the name of the Father.
* in the name of the Holy Spirit.

And again, those people in Acts 10:47-48, who were baptized in the name of the Lord (and thus the Father and Holy Spirit... all 3 being ONE), were baptized with water as proven in verse 47 (can anyone forbid WATER that these should not be baptized...).

When Philip baptized the eunuch in Acts 8, it was done with water. This is what you said in a previous debate about this baptism:

The words of the new testament were not spoken to the eunuch, thus no spirit baptism even though he was water baptized.

Not true. Look at verses 34-35 (Acts 8):

34) So the enuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?"
35) Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

The words of the New Testament weren't spoken to him??!! Philip "preached Jesus" to him after Jesus had died on the cross for all sins... just WHAT do you think the New Testament is all about?

This baptism was done AFTER Jesus commanded MAN to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... and that's exactly what the eunuch was baptized into. Why would he baptized into anyting else? He wouldn't.

Jesus commanded MAN to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... and it includes water.

 

[Kevin]

deut3019,

I've been taught my whole life that baptism is a symbol

You should not go by what people teach you, you should go by what the Bible tells you about baptism.

Romans 6 is quite clear about what baptism is, and what it does for us. Baptism is the act of obedience that is chosen by God for us to put away our bodies of sin, thus being freed from sin.

Look carefully at Romans 6:7. It reads:

7) For he who has died HAS been freed from sin.

When we die with Christ, which is through baptism (verse 3), we have been freed from sin. There's nothing symbolic about it. Paul clearly makes the qualification about who is freed from sin: It is those who die with Christ through baptism. If one hasn't been baptized, then they have not died with Christ, and therefore are not free from sin. People who are alive in sin won't make it to heaven.

Think about it.

 

[c.moore]

quote deut3019
I've been taught my whole life that baptism is a symbol, and now in reading Mark 16:16 is see that "whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved." However, later on in the same verse Christ says "but whoever does not BELIEVE will be condemned." There is no mention of condemnation for those who are not baptized, or even of requirement of that baptism.


Quote by c.moore
I am one person who teach this doctrine and keep the truth that was planted in you Duet 3019.
Praise God for the seed in your life let it grow.

2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tm:4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tm:4:5: But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

God is Blessing you
peace

 

[JustAChristian]

He that disbeliveth........

He that disbeliveth........

Originally posted by c.moore
quote deut3019
I've been taught my whole life that baptism is a symbol, and now in reading Mark 16:16 is see that "whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved." However, later on in the same verse Christ says "but whoever does not BELIEVE will be condemned." There is no mention of condemnation for those who are not baptized, or even of requirement of that baptism.


Quote by c.moore
I am one person who teach this doctrine and keep the truth that was planted in you Duet 3019.
Praise God for the seed in your life let it grow.

2Tm:4:2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Tm:4:3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tm:4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tm:4:5: But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

God is Blessing you
peace

Let use a little common sense, people!!! If a person is not going to believe the gospel, they are not going to be baptized. It is not necessary to have to say that one who is not going to be baptized is going to be condemned. The mere fact that one has disbelived the gospel brings on condemnation. You can't be condemned twice. God deems one condemnation sufficent for purpose. Once there is condemnation for disbelief, then to speak of a second condemnation is being redundant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist on this!

What is Mark 16:16 saying to us?

Belief in Jesus Christ, the gospel of universal salvation, and obedience to the commands of the Perfect Law Of Liberty equals cleansing and salvation.

Disbelief of Jesus Christ, and the gospelf will bring about condemnation.

John the apostle said it this way: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

Work on it! You should be able to grasp it. If the people of the first century could do it, surely 21st century, who have advance so far can figure it out! Now lets try it again. "He that believe and is immersed will be saved" (Mark 16:16). Got it? Now, that ain't hard, is it?

JustAChristian

 

[c.moore]

jac quote
Let use a little common sense, people!!!

No ,just be led by your spirit!!!
Ro:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Not by what makes sence because the spiritual thing don`t make sence to the carnal mind and people.

1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


peace

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

No ,just be led by your spirit!!!

Long time no speak . What you are failing to see here is that the Spirit is going to lead people according to the teachings of Christ Himself.

Christ is the one who said "he who believes and is baptized will be saved"... and that's exactly what the Spirit will lead them to. The question is, will they obey what the Spirit leads them to, or will the follow the teachings of false teachers who say you only need to believe?

According to Mark 16:16, what are the TWO conditions that must be met BEFORE one is saved? What are they? Hint: the fact that there are TWO conditions clearly indicates that belief only isn't enough. What are those conditions that are laid out by Jesus for one to be saved?

 

[Apollos]

Taking the curl out of your tail...

Taking the curl out of your tail...

HoG –

Dog? That’s “waterdog” to you! (lol) Tacky-tacky! Where is that “spirit” you claim to have? Did it get smothered in the mud? Let’s get down to the important things.

Please take note here that Zacharias (John’s father to you) prophesied by the HS. What does he tell us?

Luke 1:76 – Yea and thou child, shalt be called the prophet of the Most High; For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to make ready His ways; 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto His people in the remission of their sins.” ASV

This passage tells us that John would GIVE the people a KNOWLEDGE of salvation – not that he would give them salvation, and that this salvation would come “in the remission of their sins”. John was preparing a “people” for the Lord as and John let them know salvation/remission of sins was coming. It does NOT say that John would give them salvation and it does not say that John would give them remission of sins.

Verse 78 - This remission of sins possible “Because of the tender mercy of God “ and this will take place when “the dayspring shall visit us…” This all took place just as Zacharias prophecied.

Of course the questions that remain are:

- HOW did they receive remission of sins BEFORE the cross? Did Christ die for naught? Repentance AND remission of sins would be preached FIRST at Jerusalem (Lk. 24:47)– AFTER the cross - but YOU do not believe that! You have John preaching that even before the Lord had arrived on the scene! Please reconcile these points!

-Please explain WHY Paul baptized the 12 Ephesians in Acts 19 in the name of Christ.
They had been baptized with John’s baptism which Paul tells us was a “baptism of repentance” (cf. Matt. 3:11). Why was this necessary?
<<<>>>

I understand that Jesus by His personal authority forgave sins. Mark 2:10– and see Luke 7:47, and the “thief”. (John did NOT have authority to forgive sins!) But you and I today will not receive remission of sins this way because Jesus is no longer walking the earth. The way we receive remission of sins TODAY is by doing what God says we must do in order to appropriate remission of sins from Him. What we must do is found in the (new) covenant for which Jesus shed His blood.

More on Luke 1:76-77…

Zacharias tells us that John would be a prophet of God to prepare the way for Jesus. John was sent before Him to prepare His ways. One of the ways John prepared the way of the Lord was to prepare a people for His coming. To prepare the people, John told the people that the “kingdom was at hand”. Another way John prepared them for the coming of the Lord was to direct them to repentance and to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance. Repentance was “a way” of the Lord.

In conjunction with this repentance, John prepared the way of the Lord by baptizing them into repentance. Those being baptized realized the change of state that took place in this baptism. After repenting, they were baptized to walk in a life of repentance from dead works unto a life of “fruits worthy of repentance. (Baptism was to be “a way” of the Lord, therefore John helped prepare this “way”.)

Today water baptism is the same. A change of "state" takes place. We bury the old sinful man and arise to walk in a new life.
We are buried a sinful man - raised a new creature...a change of state!

John 20:21-23 brings up good information to support my points.

Jesus therefore said unto them again, “Peace be unto you: as the Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:
23 whose sover sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

A good student of the Bible will recognize that this event took place in the last days of Jesus being on the earth. (Compare this to events of Luke 24.) The proper questions to ask would be:

-Had the apostles been “sent” yet? Not in this context! They were to be the witnesses of Christ, but were yet to go. – Luke 24:48-49, Acts 1:8. They were to WAIT in Jerusalem for the (power) HS.

-Had they received the HS yet? Answer – NO! They were to wait in Jerusalem for the HS.

-WHEN did the apostles begin to “forgive” sins (by the authority granted them by Jesus) ??? Answer: Acts 2 on Pentecost !! The HS came upon them (2:4) and the apostles preached REPENTANCE and REMISSION of sins (2:38)…… FIRST …… In Jerusalem. (2:1)

Peter told them…(2:38) REPENT and be baptized – by the authority of Christ (tf. in water) – for the REMISSION of sins. Thus the apostles began to “forgive” sins!

Those that received the word were baptized. (2:41) (If they did not receive the word, they were not baptized, and the sins of these people were “retained”!)

(So sorry to take the curl out of your tail !) Please accept the truth! More soon…
<<<>>>

1 Corinthians 6:11 - “And such {sinners} were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.”

 

[JustAChristian]

Originally posted by c.moore
jac quote
Let use a little common sense, people!!!

No ,just be led by your spirit!!!
Ro:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Not by what makes sence because the spiritual thing don`t make sence to the carnal mind and people.

1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


peace

Obviously you have never read Isaiah 1:18. God says to use common sense. "Let us reason together".

Have you never read that you must study Gods word (2 Tim 2:15). Studing carrys a certain requirement of common sense.

You believe that God tells you what to do separate and apart from the word, don't you. I'll say that you probably don't read much scripture at all! God does not speak to peple today except through his word (John 20:31). You are not saved by the Holy Spirit but by the word of God (John 8:32; 17:17). We are called upon to hear God's word, to learn it and to obey it (John 6:44-45).
Arogent attitude and presumptuous notions only go to show our ignorance. God expect you to use common sense. Hearing and believing the gospel must come from common sense. There is nothing supernatural about believing the gospel. It comes from rational. Jesus confronted the Parisees "Saying, What THINK ye of Christ? whose son is he? (Matthew 24:42). Jesus expected a certain level of common sense be expressed by these people. They claimed no "leading of the Holy Spirit" in making a decision about Christ. Rational carries a lot of weight in the scriptures. If people would use it more, more people would be saved.

JustAChristian

 

[servantofChrist]

Hello C. Moore,

I read your post concerning 1 Cor. 3:5-15, and you still haven't got it right.

Paul is talking about members of the church in Corinth building on the foundation of Christ (v. 11). And he shows by examples of himself and Apollos that building on that foundation means people using the various talents and abilitiesthat God has given us to build up His church in our locale. To show what he means, Paul says that he planted (the seed of God's word) and Apollos watered (nurtured and reinforced Paul's teaching and work): each using his God-given abilities to build up the church there.

Now watch the following principle emerge from v. 8, knowing that nothing else anywhere in the scriptures contradicts it - "Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR" (which is another way of saying, according to his own work).

But in v. 14, Paul says that though a person's work may be "burned up" and he "suffers loss," he himself will be saved. What does he mean? The following example will show the principle he is teaching:

Preachers have gone into Africa and planted the seed of God's word through preaching. In so doing, they have planted churches where they did not exist before; where Christians meet together to worship and help each other in carrying out God's will in their life over in that part of the world. Therefore, these preachers have performed a good "labor" or "work" there. Some of these churches continue on. But in certain places, Muslims have stormed in and murdered the Christians, destroyed their place of worship, and driven the rest from their homes and villages and scattered them abroad. Therefore, although the church does not meet at that particular place anymore because Muslims forcibly prevent the church from existing there, yet he who labored there in planting the word and getting the Lord's church started may suffered the loss of his work, but he himself will be saved, "yet so as through fire" (v. 15). What fire? The "fire" spoken of in v. 13 - "each one's work will become manifest; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it was."

And remember, in conjunction with the above thought, v. 8 says - "each one will receive his own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR." In other words, when the Day of Judgment comes and EVERYTHING is revealed, it will be shown that although those murdering Muslims took away the Lord's church at that locale, still, that preacher did his part - his labor or work - of obeying the Lord's command to use his talent of preaching the word - and his OBEDIENCE to the word of Christ will be what SAVES him! (This is what we've been pointing out all along, Heb. 5:9)

And this same, exact principle applies to us today - God has given to each one of us special talents or abilities that we are to use to the building up of the Lord's church in our locale. In doing so, we are doing what we were "created in Christ Jesus to do" in the first place - "good works" (Eph. 2:10).

Therefore, your attempt to make this verse teach that baptism is not necessary for salvation shows that you don't really understand what the passage is teaching. It teaches, or implies, no such thing.

And just one final thing here, Mr. Moore: If you think that this passage in 1 Cor. 3 - or any other passage - teaches the principle that works have nothing to do with being saved, then, knowing that God's word does not contradict itself, would you please harmonize your view of 1 Cor. 3:5-15 with the words of Jesus in Matt. 25:41-46?

 

[HopeofGlory]

Dog,

You said:

Matthew 26:28 does not say that His shed blood is the NT, it says His blood is the “blood of the covenant”. I am not sure what you are trying to say by this, but I do know that His blood made the NT possible. It is His blood that “dedicates” or ratifies the new covenant – Heb. 9:18. Is this what you mean?

My reply:

What is it that one must believe to be save????? I need you to answer this question!!!!!

The new testament is not a series of books contained in the bible. The new testament is the "shed blood" of Jesus Christ!!!

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28 (KJV)
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom. Matt. 26:29 (KJV)

We must "by faith" spiritually drink His blood to enter into the Spiritual kingdom of the Father. When did they at Pentecost drink of this cup? You will search in vain for this message at Pentecost!!! Paul was the first man to deliver this message!!!

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2 Cor. 3:6 (KJV)

Peter's Pentecostal message was of the "letter" and He did not understand this message but He was converted by Paul's preaching!!! Act's 2:38 is not the new testament of His blood!!!!

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Heb. 7:22 (KJV)
:And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death Heb. 7:23 (KJV)

Men were given "temporal" remission in the "rite" of water baptism and animal sacrifices. If man before the cross had not been given remission all at death would have gone to hell.

So, how were their sins remitted if YOU said John's baptism did not remit sins? Did Jesus have to personally forgive everyone under the old testament.

Why were their sins remitted under the old testament of water baptism? Because the NEW TESTAMENT had no strength before the cross and then only to those that had "faith" in it!!!

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Heb. 9:16 (KJV)
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Heb. 9:17 (KJV)


In Christ
Craig