The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Apollos]

c. moore -

Your answer is a cop-out. You obviously have NO answer and NO scripture to back up your religious practice.

The words "Golden Rule" cannot be found in the Bible, but I can show Matthew 7:12 as the verse that represents the thought.

The "sinner's prayer" is just another man-made point in your man-made theology that has NO basis is scripture.


Colossians 3:17 - And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus..."

 

[c.moore]

The "sinner's prayer" is just another man-made point in your man-made theology that has NO basis is scripture.

c.moore
Rom 10:9 is for us our sinner prayers, but I really don`t care how you say it made up , all I know the fruits of the Rom 10:9 works and millions are getting set free with this scripture, and they are coming instantly into God kingdom after thier confession and believing, so I give God the Glory for the sinner prayer in ROM 10:9 , I like thing that works and have good fruits.

AMEN

 

[JustAChristian]

O, by the way..........

O, by the way..........

quote JAC
. You have found no verse to justify your statement that one can say the sinners prayer for salvation. Keep looking!

you are asking the same question like show me in the Word Of God the word BIBLE. you will be looking for ever.

Some people say they can still smoke cigarettes because cigarettes is not mention in the bible.

The Word (Rapture )which every born again christian is looking is not in the bible , but we know that the verse for caught up is the rapture the same is with ROM 10:9 spirit filled christians and evangelist knows this is the verse that saves you, and the verse where you put your first trust in Jesus.

A Carnal mind can not understand the spiritual things of God like belief, faith, grace, and confession, and getting saved is spiritual so I see why you debate about salvation, and sinners prayers.

1Co:2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God be with you
peace

C. Moore,

"Bible" is in the Bible. It is in Revelation 22:16. The Greek word for book is "bibliw" and since the original testaments were written in Greek then Bible is in the book.

Keep Looking.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

Thank God for C. Moore!

See how many times we are exposed to-Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved? Sure does sound like prayer to me, since calling upon the Lord is just that-PRAYER!

 

[c.moore]

Thanks Freak

that was a good way to explain the prayer that some chritian don`t see. I guess they don`go wittnessing and telling people about the good news. Most all born again chritian know about the sinner prayers and that it is ROM 10:9 . I see we all have different measure of faith.
Ro:12:3: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

We need more christians like you on the TOL, so some people can get taught the truth and divide the bible correctly .

God bless you my brother freak.

 

[JustAChristian]

Knock! Knock! Who 's There?

Knock! Knock! Who 's There?

Thank God for C. Moore!

See how many times we are exposed to-Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved? Sure does sound like prayer to me, since calling upon the Lord is just that-PRAYER!

Hello Freak,
Are you trying to give C. Moore some help. He needs it!

However, Freak, you too are falling short of the glory of God, for Jesus said, "Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord, (Sound like a prayer to me) shall enter the Kingdom of heaven (the eternal dwelling of the saved), but HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN" (Matthew 7:21). Gentlemen, lets use a little exegesis here. Jesus will save those that do the Father's will. Praying for the forgivness of alian sins is not the Father's will. The Christian who sins can pray for forgivness, but the alian sinner (like Saul of Tarsus) could only pray, but there was something else he has to do (Acts 9:6, 11; 22:10; 22:16) He was told what God expected of him by the preacher Ananias. This same man told him "what he must do" (Acts 9:6). He told him to arise a be baptized and wash away (his) sins calling on his (the Lord Jesus Christ's) name (Acts 22:16). If prayer was all that was necessary for an alian sinner for salvation, Saul certainly prayer long enough (three days) and certainly fervently enough (Acts 9:9). Yes, Saul was sincere. He knew he was a sinner. He was in a praying mode. He prayed for three days. He didn't eat or drink (his prayer was fervent). But, until he did what Ananias told him to do which was to arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on His name (Acts 22:16), there was no forgivness of sins for this alian sinner. Neither then nor now will God discount His will for mankind. We all must be obedient to the commandment of baptism (Acts 2:38; 10: 10:48).

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

Just a Christian,

You are misguided in understanding this vital issue of salvation and baptism.

First, justification is by faith in Christ (See Romans 5:1). This is a one-time event. You call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved (See Romans 10:9-10). When this occurs you are justified before God.

Secondly, after one is justified who grow in your sanitification. This involves being baptized as commanded in the Scripture. Not for salvation (for you are already justified) but for your santification.

Jesus saves my friend for He is eternal God. Water is just that Water. Water is not God. Water simply symbolizes the present work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Melody]

Just a Christian,

You are misguided in understanding this vital issue of salvation and baptism.

First, justification is by faith in Christ (See Romans 5:1). This is a one-time event. You call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved (See Romans 10:9-10). When this occurs you are justified before God.

Secondly, after one is justified who grow in your sanitification. This involves being baptized as commanded in the Scripture. Not for salvation (for you are already justified) but for your santification.

Jesus saves my friend for He is eternal God. Water is just that Water. Water is not God. Water simply symbolizes the present work of Jesus Christ.

Baptism in Jesus name is for the remission of sins. No baptism, No remission of sins, No salvation.

 

[Kevin]

JustAChristian,

Yet another excellent post!

Something else to note about their logic. C.Moore and Freak are always saying that people should get baptized even though they are already saved. Well, Acts 22:16 commands Paul to be baptized before calling on the name of the Lord, which they say, by itself, saves you. By their own logic, that's implying that Paul was saved before calling on the name of the Lord, since baptism preceeds it (according to them it is the people who are already saved who are baptized).

Get your story straight Freak and C.Moore!

 

[JustAChristian]

Just a Christian,

You are misguided in understanding this vital issue of salvation and baptism.

First, justification is by faith in Christ (See Romans 5:1). This is a one-time event. You call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved (See Romans 10:9-10). When this occurs you are justified before God.

Secondly, after one is justified who grow in your sanitification. This involves being baptized as commanded in the Scripture. Not for salvation (for you are already justified) but for your santification.

Jesus saves my friend for He is eternal God. Water is just that Water. Water is not God. Water simply symbolizes the present work of Jesus Christ.

Freak,

Now, lets look at what you have said.
"First, justification is by faith in Christ (See Romans 5:1)." Now, who is Paul speaking to, alian sinners or the saved? I think he is speaking to the saved. So, by context, you are not even touching on the subject. If you are going to enter the discussion, lets stick to the subject "Will God save an alian sinner by prayer"?
Speaking further on this post will only tend to justify your entrance, so let me leave it with this. Go and find one verse, not two or three but just one verse that clearly and presisely teaches that an alian sinner can be saved by prayer and I don't have a "leg to stand on".

Water--"...see here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36).

1. Self-will
2. Ignorance of the will of God.
3. False teaching.
4. Family pressures.
5. Love of the world.
6. Misunderstanding of scriptures.
7. etc.


What will cause a person to be baptized.

1. True love of God.
2. Desire to please God.
3. Belief in the doctrine of baptism.
4. Deny self.
5. Denying the world and its temporal pleasures.
6. Desire to be spiritually cleansed of sins.
7. Desire to be obedient to faith in Jesus Christ

So, where do you stand? I stand with Jesus Christ on the subject of Baptism. "...he that believes and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).

JustAChristian

 

[Apollos]

What does FAITH involve ???

What does FAITH involve ???

Hi Freak -

In what way is faith a "one time event" ?? Of course, faith is something MAN MUST DO or have in order to be saved, isn't it. Man must do something - right?

Now you have said that man must have faith - then - you said that man must "call upon the name of the Lord" to be saved. What does it mean to "call" upon His name ?? Please tell us!

So I now have you admitting to two things that man MUST DO in order to be saved....

1.) Man must have faith.
2.) Man must "call" upon the name of the Lord.

Now please tell me - Must man REPENT ???
And anything else?? Hmmm?

I hope by now that you have started to see that "faith" is a comprehensive action that requires man to DO ALL that the Lord requires of him, especially for man to come to the point of salvation !!

Until man does all that the Lord requires him to do to be saved, man is not saved! And until man humbly submits to do His will, man is NOT "calling" upon His name!

When preceeded by belief, repentance, & confession, water baptism is the means, selected by God, through which man appropriates the forgiveness of sins. God devised this, not man. Water baptism is NOT a symbol of anything. Water baptsim is FOR the remission of sins and it DOES put you into Christ!

Man MUST do something to receive God's grace and the remission of his sins. Faith is man's response to God and that response must do all that God requires him to do, whether for salvation or in godly living !!

 

[HopeofGlory]

Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

The "new" testament is the shed "blood of Christ for remission of sin" (Matt. 26:28) and it is received by faith yet it is beyond the comprehension of heretics who believe water baptism is for remission of sins. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (heretics), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matt. 21:43).

The training up of Paul was progressive but this training up would be accomplished by the Spirit of Christ based on the new testament (Matt. 26:28) and it began with his conversion on Damascus road when his name was Saul. After Paul’s conversion we see a progressive change in the message and Paul will participate in the old message for remission until he has progressively received the “mystery” revelations from Christ (Gals. 1:11-12) and at one point Paul was even caught up into heaven (2 Cor. 12:14).

Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12 (KJV). Paul did baptize some but scripture testifies that at a later date Christ sent him to the Gentiles and instructed him "not to baptize"(1Cor 1:17). Why did Christ send Paul NOT to baptize? It is because Paul received progressive revelations (2 Cor 12:17) of a greater witness (John 5:36) that was of God not men. Paul was the first man to teach the "new testament" of the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins(Roms 3:25).

Water baptism before the cross "gave remission of sins" through obedience (works) (Acts 2:38) and it can not be argued unless you choose to go against the word of God. The message was one that not only had to be obeyed (Acts 5:32) but it also demanded endurance to the end (Mark 13:13) to receive that remission. Paul understands by progressive revelation that message is no longer effectual for remission of sins and has been superceded by the greater witness (John 5:36) than that of John the baptist (Mark 1:4) (Acts 2:38) for remission of sins. That greater witness is the cross where He shed His blood for remission of sins (Matt 26:28).

In Christ
Craig

 

[Melody]

You have taken Paul's statement out of context.

He is writing to the church because some are claiming to be better christian's than others by reason of who baptized them and letting them know that it makes no difference who baptized them as they were all baptized into Christ.
Baptism in the name of Jesus is for remission of sin. The scriptures say so. It is through baptism in the name of Jesus that we receive His blood to cover our sins.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his (Jesus) name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Kevin]

edit: No need to be redundant. Melody hit the nail on the head.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Where is the new testament (his shed blood) for remission of sins preached during Pentecost or in Acts 2:38? It's not there!

Acts 2:38 is not the message of salvation for us today. We have a greater witness in the cross of Christ and His blood for remission.

Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW (Acts 22:12).

The apostles remained jealous of the law (works) and offerings for sin (Acts 21:26) after the cross even up to the Jerusalem council (Acts 21:20). Paul’s epistles clearly reveal the law was an offence to the cross (Roms. 5:19-20) and it was the most important message second only to the cross which done away with the law (Col. 2:14). The line of opposition was clear, it was the law against the cross therefore the "promise" was not received at Pentecost as Peter confirms with these words ....The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9). The factual evidence within the word of God can not be denied and we are instructed to rightly divide the word (2 Tim. 2:15).

In Christ
Craig

 

[HopeofGlory]

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

Paul understands that water baptism made the cross of Christ of none effect as to remission of sins. Water baptism from its inception before the cross was for remission of sins but we have a new message in the new testament for remission. The new has replaced the old and if one believes the old testimony then the new testimony is of none effect.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:5 (KJV)

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 1 Pet. 1:18 (KJV)
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Pet. 1:19 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

 

[Melody]

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

Paul understands that water baptism made the cross of Christ of none effect as to remission of sins. Water baptism from its inception before the cross was for remission of sins but we have a new message in the new testament for remission. The new has replaced the old and if one believes the old testimony then the new testimony is of none effect.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:5 (KJV)

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 1 Pet. 1:18 (KJV)
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Pet. 1:19 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

So Paul knows more than Jesus and those that He personally instructed. I think not.
Did Paul receive a different gospel than the Apostle's. No again.
There is a difference between obeying the kosher laws of the Jews and obeying the commandments of Jesus.
And Jesus definately commanded baptism in His name.
Jesus did not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it. Is your hope in Christ or in Paul?

 

[Jim Hedstrom]

It seems to me that if God is a true Sovereign, He can accept on any terms He wishes, which can be either faith or works, or just because He wants to accept. Charles Briggs a hundred years ago pointed out that if God was analogically like a King, then his judgment MIGHT be according to some law, but because a true Sovereign, whose word WAS law, MIGHT just judge WITHOUT any other consideration, than His own favor. Is this arbitrary? You bet. Can a real God act like this? I would think so.

Same with baptism. God's cool with what He wants to be cool with, and there are NO legalisms here, requiring God to be entirely this or that. I most truly believe, sprinkled mainliner that I am, that my "baptism" is as good as any other, but I don't begrudge others their views-I just don't think God is less intelligent than we are, in considering such things.

Dr. Jim

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

Re: Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

The "new" testament is the shed "blood of Christ for remission of sin" (Matt. 26:28) and it is received by faith yet it is beyond the comprehension of heretics who believe water baptism is for remission of sins. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (heretics), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matt. 21:43).

The training up of Paul was progressive but this training up would be accomplished by the Spirit of Christ based on the new testament (Matt. 26:28) and it began with his conversion on Damascus road when his name was Saul. After Paul’s conversion we see a progressive change in the message and Paul will participate in the old message for remission until he has progressively received the “mystery” revelations from Christ (Gals. 1:11-12) and at one point Paul was even caught up into heaven (2 Cor. 12:14).

Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12 (KJV). Paul did baptize some but scripture testifies that at a later date Christ sent him to the Gentiles and instructed him "not to baptize"(1Cor 1:17). Why did Christ send Paul NOT to baptize? It is because Paul received progressive revelations (2 Cor 12:17) of a greater witness (John 5:36) that was of God not men. Paul was the first man to teach the "new testament" of the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins(Roms 3:25).

Water baptism before the cross "gave remission of sins" through obedience (works) (Acts 2:38) and it can not be argued unless you choose to go against the word of God. The message was one that not only had to be obeyed (Acts 5:32) but it also demanded endurance to the end (Mark 13:13) to receive that remission. Paul understands by progressive revelation that message is no longer effectual for remission of sins and has been superceded by the greater witness (John 5:36) than that of John the baptist (Mark 1:4) (Acts 2:38) for remission of sins. That greater witness is the cross where He shed His blood for remission of sins (Matt 26:28).


Craig

Craig,
I thought I tought you better than this! You still don't get it! You're still out there preaching dispensationalism. I'd say you are an "Independent Missionary Baptist". Probably follow after John Rice and Bob Jones. Anyway, I taught you that Paul preached the same thing in ALL churches: "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. 1 Cor 4:17

But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 1 Cor 7:17

But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. 1 Cor 11:16

Paul taught and preached one gospel and it was the same gospel that was taught and preached in all churches.

He baptized. He eith obeyed the Lord or he didn't (Acts 19:1-3; 1 Cor 1:14-16). He preached the gospel of baptism was taught in all churches. His primary purpose was to preach the Lord's message to humanity (Mark 16:15). Those that believed the gospel and obeyed it in being spiritually cleansed (Mark 16:16) were spiritually "saved". Craig, it doesn't take a scholar to understand this but there have been many scholars who have known this and have denied it "for they love the praise of man more than the praise of God (John 12:43).

Don't come with that false doctrine that Paul had a different revelation than the other apostles (Jude 1:17). They all spoke the ONE FAITH (

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

Re: Heretics message to the world:Be Baptized to be saved!

The "new" testament is the shed "blood of Christ for remission of sin" (Matt. 26:28) and it is received by faith yet it is beyond the comprehension of heretics who believe water baptism is for remission of sins. The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (heretics), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matt. 21:43).

The training up of Paul was progressive but this training up would be accomplished by the Spirit of Christ based on the new testament (Matt. 26:28) and it began with his conversion on Damascus road when his name was Saul. After Paul’s conversion we see a progressive change in the message and Paul will participate in the old message for remission until he has progressively received the “mystery” revelations from Christ (Gals. 1:11-12) and at one point Paul was even caught up into heaven (2 Cor. 12:14).

Ananias was the one that instructed Paul to be water baptized for remission of sins after the cross and he was.... A DEVOUT MAN ACCORDING TO THE LAW Acts 22:12 (KJV). Paul did baptize some but scripture testifies that at a later date Christ sent him to the Gentiles and instructed him "not to baptize"(1Cor 1:17). Why did Christ send Paul NOT to baptize? It is because Paul received progressive revelations (2 Cor 12:17) of a greater witness (John 5:36) that was of God not men. Paul was the first man to teach the "new testament" of the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins(Roms 3:25).

Water baptism before the cross "gave remission of sins" through obedience (works) (Acts 2:38) and it can not be argued unless you choose to go against the word of God. The message was one that not only had to be obeyed (Acts 5:32) but it also demanded endurance to the end (Mark 13:13) to receive that remission. Paul understands by progressive revelation that message is no longer effectual for remission of sins and has been superceded by the greater witness (John 5:36) than that of John the baptist (Mark 1:4) (Acts 2:38) for remission of sins. That greater witness is the cross where He shed His blood for remission of sins (Matt 26:28).


Craig

Craig,
I thought I tought you better than this! You still don't get it! You're still out there preaching dispensationalism. I'd say you are an "Independent Missionary Baptist". Probably follow after John Rice and Bob Jones. Anyway, I taught you that Paul preached the same thing in ALL churches: "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. 1 Cor 4:17

But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 1 Cor 7:17

But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. 1 Cor 11:16

Paul taught and preached one gospel and it was the same gospel that was taught and preached in all churches.

He baptized. He eith obeyed the Lord or he didn't (Acts 19:1-3; 1 Cor 1:14-16). He preached the gospel of baptism was taught in all churches. His primary purpose was to preach the Lord's message to humanity (Mark 16:15). Those that believed the gospel and obeyed it in being spiritually cleansed (Mark 16:16) were spiritually "saved". Craig, it doesn't take a scholar to understand this but there have been many scholars who have known this and have denied it "for they love the praise of man more than the praise of God (John 12:43).

Don't come with that false doctrine that Paul had a different revelation than the other apostles (Jude 1:17). They all spoke the ONE FAITH ( Ephesians 4:4-6).

JustAChristian