ECT The First Century Jewish Believers and Their Access to the Heavenly Sphere

[Jerry Shugart]

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following about the Christian's access to the heavenly sphere:

"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).​

Only those in the Body of Christ have access to the heavenly sphere and that is because only those in the Body have been raised up and are sitting together with Christ in the heavenly sphere:

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:6).​

The following passage from the book of Hebrews reveal that those who received the book of Hebrews also have access to the heavenly place and therefore they are members of the Body of Christ:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

These Jewish believers are told that they have come to the city of the living God and to Jesus Christ. They have access to the heavenly sphere, an access only enjoyed by the members of the Body of Christ. Just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ these Jewish Christians have been raised up together with Christ and are sitting together with Him in the city of the living God.

But those in the Neo-MAD community say that those who received the book of Hebrews are not in the Body of Christ.

Perhaps one of them will actually address the words at Hebrews 12:22-24 and tell us why we shouldn't believe that these Jewish believers are not in the Body of Christ.

 

[Interplanner]

If you are D'ist you have no idea how to handle Hebrews. Everything I've read by D'ists about it is dishonest.

The only problem I have with what you said here Jerry is 'to these Jewish believers.' That begs the question: then why is 99% of it the exact same blessings and gifts as any other believer?

The fundamental delusion-confusion of D'ism is the separation. Ryrie said so; there is no question it is the tagline of D'ism. The question is whether it is found in the NT.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you are D'ist you have no idea how to handle Hebrews. Everything I've read by D'ists about it is dishonest.

What did I say that is in error and dishonest?

The only problem I have with what you said here Jerry is 'to these Jewish believers.' That begs the question: then why is 99% of it the exact same blessings and gifts as any other believer?

This is way over your head because my post is speaking about the fact that the Jewish believers are members of the Body of Christ and therefore they enjoy 100% of the same blessings enjoyed by the Gentile members.

 

[Interplanner]

What did I say that is in error and dishonest?



This is way over your head because my post is speaking about the fact that the Jewish believers are members of the Body of Christ and therefore they enjoy 100% of the same blessings enjoyed by the Gentile members.

Most of your post was great and refreshing, but the usual D'ist is probably at his worst trying to handle Hebrews, does more contortions there than anywhere.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Most of your post was great and refreshing, but the usual D'ist is probably at his worst trying to handle Hebrews, does more contortions there than anywhere.

What contortions?

 

[Interplanner]

What did I say that is in error and dishonest?



This is way over your head because my post is speaking about the fact that the Jewish believers are members of the Body of Christ and therefore they enjoy 100% of the same blessings enjoyed by the Gentile members.

Not over my head at all, but please stop capitalizing Body of Christ as though it was some kind of branded product. It's just Christians, believers upon Christ. And there is no later Jews-only blessings or episode. This age, this group, is the fulfillment of the ages, because it is now possible to be in Christ. That's why Hebrews 11 (note: HEBREWS), says 'only with us--in Christ--did the believers of the past realize/receive the promises, having been 'made perfect' in the Hebrews sense in Christ, v40.

In NT--apostolic thinking, that generation was the last, and the end of the whole world was expected. Much of it is written that way. Only in places like 2 Pet 3 or a few parables do you get a sense that the world would go on after the DofJ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And there is no later Jews-only blessings or episode. This age, this group, is the fulfillment of the ages, because it is now possible to be in Christ.

Then why did Paul speak of the "ages to come"?

 

[Interplanner]

Then why did Paul speak of the "ages to come"?

There are ages to come, but the fulfillment of all things, the culmination, was that generation and what happened in Christ. Time does not stop because the NHNE is created.

You may be interested to know that those ages can be described as one as in Eph 1:21. There is one age to come, the NHNE. Not a separate Judaic one first.

Also there is reason to treat 1:10 in the historic sense; that he is referring to a thing expected for a long time but only now finally arrived. That is picked up in 1:21's 'not only in the present age'. He wouldn't have said that if the 'bringing all things under one head, Christ' was not a present reality to him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There are ages to come, but the fulfillment of all things, the culmination, was that generation and what happened in Christ.

The fulfillment of all things?

So the following event has already happened:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (2 Thess.2:16-17).​

 

[Interplanner]

The fulfillment of all things?

So the following event has already happened:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (2 Thess.2:16-17).​

There are always exceptions on minor themes. What he meant at that time was like what he meant in Act 13's sermon about 'whatever was promised to the fathers has been fulfilled for us their children in that God raised Jesus from the dead.' Think in as broad terms as possible, but one smaller item like 'how will people in the 1st century actually die and be with the other believers' is bound to be an exception. Paul would not have grouped them in the same category as something needing to be fulfilled from israel's destiny.

The plan to put all things under one Head was for his (Paul's) time; it is in his now. And yet as Hebrews says, we don't see everything subject to him.

Remember, there is just one age to come; the NHNE. Eph 1:21.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There are always exceptions on minor themes.

So the rapture is just a minor theme?

So you do admit that you were in error when you said all things have been fulfilled?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Where are all those big talkers who continue to insist that those who received the Hebrew epistles are not members of the Body of Christ?

These same people have already proven that they want to remain ignorant of the facts concerning the rapture and the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting that they too would be raptured.

Let's see if they will choose to remain ignorant about the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were taught of their heavenly access to the LORD and only those in the Body have such an access.

 

[DAN P]

Where are all those big talkers who continue to insist that those who received the Hebrew epistles are not members of the Body of Christ?

These same people have already proven that they want to remain ignorant of the facts concerning the rapture and the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting that they too would be raptured.

Let's see if they will choose to remain ignorant about the fact that those who received the Hebrew epistles were taught of their heavenly access to the LORD and only those in the Body have such an access.

Hi Jerry and are you talking about me !!

Eph 2:6 verbs are both in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the Indicative Mood !!

We are seated spiritually there now BUT not there physically , but be counted as if we are !!

You will never prove that Hebrews was ever written to the B O C , IF you want , lay out your evidence why it is to us ??

Rom 5:2 says we have ACCESS by FAITH , Jerry !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Most of your post was great and refreshing, but the usual D'ist is probably at his worst trying to handle Hebrews, does more contortions there than anywhere.

There you have it, Neo-MAD Jerry, the endorsement of one of the most consistently ever in error individuals on TOL - Interplanner.

Lol - serves you right, you Books Based Programs Blending book worm, you.

:rotfl:

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

Hi Jerry and are you talking about me !!

Eph 2:6 verbs are both in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the Indicative Mood !!

We are seated spiritually there now BUT not there physically , but be counted as if we are !!

You will never prove that Hebrews was ever written to the B O C , IF you want , lay out your evidence why it is to us ??

Rom 5:2 says we have ACCESS by FAITH , Jerry !!

dan p

This thread is nothing more than one more of Jerry's ever endless, neurotic baitings - and you fell for it - again.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Interplanner]

Maybe one mistake of the title is that it is physically-delineated. That's not how to do flesh vs spirit.

 

[DAN P]

This thread is nothing more than one more of Jerry's ever endless, neurotic baitings - and you fell for it - again.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

Hi Danoh , I fall all the time , BUT not on my head !!

I like every one and they are where they are biblical !!

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

Hi Danoh , I fall all the time , BUT not on my head !!

I like every one and they are where they are biblical !!

dan p

And you are a breath of fresh air, Dan. :thumb:

 

[john w]

This thread is nothing more than one more of Jerry's ever endless, neurotic baitings - and you fell for it - again.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

That is confused, admitted bible corrector/mystic/agnostic/blender John 3 Nicky Shugart's MO, "ministry," on TOl- baiting, sophistry, sower of discord amongst the brethren, and kindergarten tricks.

 

[Danoh]

Hi Danoh , I fall all the time , BUT not on my head !!

I like every one and they are where they are biblical !!

dan p

Does that include all the people on here whom the Hybrids on here are forever spitting on despite the ever obvious fact that the Hybrids are just as confused as a Meshak, a GT, a Turbo, an IP, on many areas themselves?

If you do like everyone on here, you're one of the very few exceptions on here.

In which case, Meshak's hat is off to ya.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.