The Elephant in the Room

[Jefferson]

The Elephant in the Room

This is the show from Monday April 12th, 2010.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

When Obama goes up for re-election, there are states that are trying to pass laws that say if you want to be on the ballot for president, you have to show your birth certificate so that you can be certified to be a natural born citizen.

SUMMARY:

* It’s Up to You, New York: For years Bob Enyart Live has maintained a position that while locking up more and more criminals would lead to a temporary reduction in crime rates, it would ultimately fail to end the crime epidemic. Now the jail terms are ending, a new generation of criminals is coming of age and the epidemic is returning to The City.

* A Czar is Born: Seconding the notion of Michelle Obama regarding the birthplace America’s 44th president is one James Orengo, Kenyan member of parliament. He feels America had a real “kum-ba-ya “moment in the 2008 election of Barry Hussein and hopes that even if we’re not all born in the same land we can all just get along.

* Freshly Fertilized: It’s no surprise when ABC reporters, NARAL mouth pieces and Planned Parenthood organs use dehumanizing terms for the tiniest boys and girls. Personhood advocates have lambasted them for their use of terms like "fertilized egg”, so now they’re saying we want to give rights to “freshly fertilized eggs”, (thinking that this makes the Personhood argument even that much more ridiculous). But it is comments from so called pro-life organizations regarding Personhood and recent abortion regulations that receive the bulk of Bob’s, and co-host Doug McBurney’s ire.

* PETA Principle: While PETA implicitly supports legalized abortion, they draw the line at making elephants uncomfortable in any way.

Personhood is the most important human rights movement of your lifetime. Will you be one who fights to end the systematic dehumanization and murder of an entire class of citizen? Or will you stay in your comfort zone? If you live in any state in America, you can advance personhood via the 2010 ballot or in one of three different ways. If you live in Colorado join by calling or e-mailing Personhood Colorado or Colorado Right to Life.

Today’s Resource: You can enjoy one or two of Bob Enyart’s entertaining and insightful videos each month, mailed to you automatically, simply by subscribing to the BEL Monthly Topical Videos service! Also, you can check out the other great BEL subscription services!

 

[chrysostom]

the elephant in the room is the U.S. Supreme Court which will rule and determine if any law or any state constitution is constitutional

 

[Jukia]

Well, it is a "fertilized egg".

 

[MaryContrary]

Well, it is a "fertilized egg".

Then so are you. :idunno:

 

[Stripe]

:mock: Jukia.

 

[Granite]

Then so are you. :idunno:

WHAT?

 

[Jukia]

Then so are you. :idunno:

No, I was a fertilized egg, now I am a 60+ year old human

 

[Alate_One]

Then so are you. :idunno:

I'm sorry but a fertilized egg isn't in any way the same thing definition wise as a fetus, an infant, a child or an adult.

Personhood advocates have lambasted them for their use of terms like "fertilized egg”, so now they’re saying we want to give rights to “freshly fertilized eggs”, (thinking that this makes the Personhood argument even that much more ridiculous).

A Dehumanizing term? :rotfl: Its the scientific term for what results from the union of sperm and egg. Unless you want to use the term "zygote".

A fertilized egg is ONE cell, it has no heartbeat, no brain (not even a nerve cell) nothing we would even associate with early embryos. An adult human has trillions of cells, we shed them every day without thinking we've killed a potential copy of ourselves.

Calling a fertilized egg a person IS ridiculous, period.

 

[Stripe]

I'm sorry but a fertilized egg isn't in any way the same thing definition wise as a fetus, an infant, a child or an adult.



A Dehumanizing term? :rotfl: Its the scientific term for what results from the union of sperm and egg. Unless you want to use the term "zygote".

A fertilized egg is ONE cell, it has no heartbeat, no brain (not even a nerve cell) nothing we would even associate with early embryos. An adult human has trillions of cells, we shed them every day without thinking we've killed a potential copy of ourselves.

Calling a fertilized egg a person IS ridiculous, period.

A person is a person no matter how small.

Only the truly dedicated murderer devises means to detect and exterminate a person who has just recently been conceived.

 

[Stripe]

I'm sorry but a fertilized egg isn't in any way the same thing definition wise as a fetus, an infant, a child or an adult. A Dehumanizing term? :rotfl: Its the scientific term for what results from the union of sperm and egg. Unless you want to use the term "zygote".

An adult is a fully grown person.
A child is a growing person.
An infant is a recently born person.
A fetus is an unborn person.
A fertilised egg is a newly conceived person.

None of those are dehumanising terms.

A man from Africa might be a black man.
A man from Europe might be a white man.

None of those are dehumanising terms.

It's not a person because it is only a fertilised egg.
It's not a person because it's black.

Those are dehumanising terms.

You're going to have to learn to deal with context and intent if you want to contribute anything reasonable to a discussion.

A fertilized egg is ONE cell, it has no heartbeat, no brain (not even a nerve cell) nothing we would even associate with early embryos.

1. Heartbeats and brains do not determine who is and who is not a person.
2. The heart and the brain are contained within the single cell.
3. We are talking about a baby at conception, not embryos.

An adult human has trillions of cells, we shed them every day without thinking we've killed a potential copy of ourselves.

You're not very good at this biology stuff, are you? When we shed cells they may well have the potential to become our clones.

But a newly conceived child does not have that potential.

Calling a fertilized egg a person IS ridiculous, period.

Calling you a rational person is ridiculous.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

No, I was a fertilized egg, now I am a 60+ year old human

You were a human then too, albeit a single-celled one. You gotta start somewhere.

 

[OMEGA]

LIFE BEGINS when the Blood (life-spirit) enters the Fetus.

 

[Stripe]

LIFE BEGINS when the Blood (life-spirit) enters the Fetus.

Let us know when blood starts entering your brain. :up:

 

[chatmaggot]

An adult is a fully grown person.
A child is a growing person.
An infant is a recently born person.
A fetus is an unborn person.
A fertilised egg is a newly conceived person.

None of those are dehumanising terms.

A man from Africa might be a black man.
A man from Europe might be a white man.

None of those are dehumanising terms.

It's not a person because it is only a fertilised egg.
It's not a person because it's black.

Those are dehumanising terms.

You're going to have to learn to deal with context and intent if you want to contribute anything reasonable to a discussion.



1. Heartbeats and brains do not determine who is and who is not a person.
2. The heart and the brain are contained within the single cell.
3. We are talking about a baby at conception, not embryos.


You're not very good at this biology stuff, are you? When we shed cells they may well have the potential to become our clones.

But a newly conceived child does not have that potential.


Calling you a rational person is ridiculous.

I really liked this post.

Simple and to the point.

 

[Granite]

You were a human then too, albeit a single-celled one. You gotta start somewhere.

I'd disagree. An egg is not a "human being." It might be called "human matter," or something to that effect...but a person it definitely isn't.

 

[Jefferson]

I'd disagree. An egg is not a "human being." It might be called "human matter," or something to that effect...but a person it definitely isn't.

So when do you think it becomes a person?

 

[Granite]

So when do you think it becomes a person?

I'd say personhood could be bestowed when brain activity and/or heart beat is first detected.

 

[Alate_One]

None of those are dehumanising terms.

It's not a person because it is only a fertilised egg.
It's not a person because it's black.

Those are dehumanising terms.

Yes and a ridiculous analogy. A fertilized egg is barely even visible to the naked eye (about the size of a period in this text on most settings). Its an entirely different thing to call that "not a person" versus looking at another adult human being with a different skin color and saying "not a person". If you don't understand this you're being irrational.

1. Heartbeats and brains do not determine who is and who is not a person.

Oh but heartbeats DO determine who and who is not a person at the other end of life.

How do you tell the difference between a person and a dead body? Heartbeat and brain activity. Certainly many of the cells in the person may still be alive even though they have been declared dead. Why would it not make sense to use the same criterion for determining personhood at the beginning of life?

A dead body is a "former person", a fertilized egg is a "person to be". You shouldn't treat either lightly, but neither should have the full rights of a PERSON.

Note that this would STILL preclude most abortions but remove the potential for contraceptives being banned under any personhood legislation that would include zygotes as "persons".

Preventing implantation would then be murder (which is included in a number of forms of contraception). Even activities that accidentally would cause implantation to fail could be construed as murder. Do we want mothers going to jail over this? Ectopic pregnancy removal would be illegal, nearly always causing the death of both mother and baby. How is any of this rational or helpful?

If the line is drawn where I suggest, you'll get a lot of people signing on and you might actually be able to stop a large proportion of abortions. But if you shoot for "at conception" everyone will see "personhood" as a ridiculous idea, which under those standards it is.

2. The heart and the brain are contained within the single cell.

They aren't "contained" in a zygote. The potential for their formation is there, but it is only one cell and requires time and energy expenditure for them to form. You may as well say bridges are contained in iron ore.

3. We are talking about a baby at conception, not embryos.

I can't share your impulse to call a single cell a "baby".
Here's an image of a zygote, does that look like a "person" to you? All the opponents have to do is display and image like this and the "movement" is going nowhere fast. Stick to something that makes sense and you can save lives of things that are unquestionably little humans.

 

[Granite]

Declaring a zygote to be a "person" demeans what it is to actually be human!

 

[BabyChristian]

The Elephant in the Room

This is the show from Monday April 12th, 2010.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

SUMMARY:

* It’s Up to You, New York: For years Bob Enyart Live has maintained a position that while locking up more and more criminals would lead to a temporary reduction in crime rates, it would ultimately fail to end the crime epidemic. Now the jail terms are ending, a new generation of criminals is coming of age and the epidemic is returning to The City.

* A Czar is Born: Seconding the notion of Michelle Obama regarding the birthplace America’s 44th president is one James Orengo, Kenyan member of parliament. He feels America had a real “kum-ba-ya “moment in the 2008 election of Barry Hussein and hopes that even if we’re not all born in the same land we can all just get along.

* Freshly Fertilized: It’s no surprise when ABC reporters, NARAL mouth pieces and Planned Parenthood organs use dehumanizing terms for the tiniest boys and girls. Personhood advocates have lambasted them for their use of terms like "fertilized egg”, so now they’re saying we want to give rights to “freshly fertilized eggs”, (thinking that this makes the Personhood argument even that much more ridiculous). But it is comments from so called pro-life organizations regarding Personhood and recent abortion regulations that receive the bulk of Bob’s, and co-host Doug McBurney’s ire.

* PETA Principle: While PETA implicitly supports legalized abortion, they draw the line at making elephants uncomfortable in any way.

Personhood is the most important human rights movement of your lifetime. Will you be one who fights to end the systematic dehumanization and murder of an entire class of citizen? Or will you stay in your comfort zone? If you live in any state in America, you can advance personhood via the 2010 ballot or in one of three different ways. If you live in Colorado join by calling or e-mailing Personhood Colorado or Colorado Right to Life.

Today’s Resource: You can enjoy one or two of Bob Enyart’s entertaining and insightful videos each month, mailed to you automatically, simply by subscribing to the BEL Monthly Topical Videos service! Also, you can check out the other great BEL subscription services!

That picture in your avatar makes me nauseated every time I see it.