The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[DFT_Dave]

This is why we are debating flat earth

1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

--Dave

 

[daqq]

This is why we are debating flat earth

1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

--Dave

The various types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat earth model where the sun is always circling from above the supposed flat earth.

 

[DFT_Dave]

The various different types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat-earth model.

They work because the sun is moving. But if you think you can prove your point, go ahead.

--Dave

 

[daqq]

They work because the sun is moving. But if you think you can prove your point, go ahead.

--Dave

It was already shown in PJ's thread which is now closed.
Research it yourself if you truly seek to understand.

 

[DFT_Dave]

It was already shown in PJ's thread which is now closed.
Research it yourself if you truly seek to understand.

If you want to share it here please do, or link me to PJ's thread so I can look at it.

--Dave

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

This is why we are debating flat earth

1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

--Dave

Yep.

Einstein rescued heliocentrism with his fantastical imaginative theory of relativity.

I find it fascinating that Christians will fight evolutionists tooth and nail, while swallowing Copernican heliocentrism hook line and sinker.

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]Admiral Byrd Planes Crashing Into The Invisible Dome Firmament[/h]


6 Minutes

 

[patrick jane]

The various types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat earth model where the sun is always circling from above the supposed flat earth.

That flat earth model you've seen and have embedded in your head is way off the actual paths - "Circuit" of the sun on flat earth.

It's not even close and was never meant to be. It's a basic rudimentary depiction to introduce folks that are new to the topic to show the basic concept. Try to picture in your mind what happens or what could be happening with the sun and moon in a flat earth. Supported by Psalm 19 and many other scriptures, the moon and sun have circuits to run. The sun hastens back to where he arose.

They move and everything in the firmament moves but not the fixed, fastened, established, immovable, set, never to be moved earth that God built on foundations and pillars and God laid the CORNERSTONE thereof.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

[h=1]Admiral Byrd Planes Crashing Into The Invisible Dome Firmament[/h]


6 Minutes

As we know, no country has perfected an electro-magnetic force field to this day.

Hmmmm...... God's firmament?

 

[daqq]

If you want to share it here please do, or link me to PJ's thread so I can look at it.

--Dave

Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:

I just went and made this image file from the video:

It is very simple: these are physical observations taken from these three different locations on the earth, all on the same day, (I cannot tell by the sound quality but I believe he means an equinox, (but may be speaking later of a solstice because he mentions December)), and the path of the sun moves in three different directions, that is, a straight line across the equator and opposing curvatures on the the two tropics. This is actually the curvature of the earth which is being revealed in the three different paths of the sun which all occur on the same day: not the sun itself moving in three different directions at the same time, (which is impossible). This is not possible on a flat earth model and the various types of sundials work for the very same reasons and in much the same way because the earth is spherical and spinning. You can theoretically place sundials at three locations on the same day, (I believe the equinoxes), on the two tropics and the equator, and they will all work properly so long as they are positioned correctly. Again these are physical observations: there is no question about these things, and they cannot work if the earth is flat and the sun is moving in a circle above a flat earth model. They only work in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe. It is all in the observations and observable realities we see from the earth even though things may not appear to be what they are.

 

[patrick jane]

Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:

.

I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That flat earth model you've seen and have embedded in your head is way off the actual paths - "Circuit" of the sun on flat earth. It's not even close and was never meant to be. It's a basic rudimentary depiction to introduce folks that are new to the topic to show the basic concept. Try to picture in your mind what happens or what could be happening with the sun and moon in a flat earth. Supported by Psalm 19 and many other scriptures, the moon and sun have circuits to run. The sun hastens back to where he arose. They move and everything in the firmament moves but not the fixed, fastened, established, immovable, set, never to be moved earth that God built on foundations and pillars and God laid the CORNERSTONE thereof.

He can't afford to.

He'd have to rip up part of his exegesis on Golgotha.

 

[daqq]

I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.

Show me a flat earth model where sundials will work. Moreover, as I also already told you, the equinoxes do not fall on the same day all over the world. The observable equinox at Jerusalem, the true observable day of equal day and equal night, falls about four days different from what you see on world calendars. And if you found a city which is south of the equator by the same distance as Jerusalem is north of the equator, that location would be in the opposite direction on the calendar. I mentioned this to you in our discussion about the observations which are given in the Book of the Luminaries, (which, again, is not part of 1Enoch in anything found at Qumran). These physical observances reveal that the earth is a spinning globe tilted on its axis. Even the seasons are different lengths the further north or south you go from the equator: and the seasons in the south are opposite the seasons in the north, (summer and winter are opposite in the south as opposed to the north). None of this can be true on a flat earth model, and yet, all of it is explained in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe that is tilted on its axis of rotation.

Observable Vernal Equinox this year at the Jerusalem latitude is 16 March 2018
Sunrise to sunset: 5:48 AM to 5:47 PM (length of day = 11:59:19)
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/israel/jerusalem?month=3

Please take a look at the chart for this section in the following link:

Latitude Determines Day Length
Even if day and night aren’t exactly equal on the day of the equinox, there are days when day and night are both very close to 12 hours.

Sunrise & sunset times
However, this date depends on the latitude, and can vary by as much as several weeks from place to place. The table shows approximate dates for when day and night are as similar as possible according to latitude.

	Approx date of "Equal Day & Night"
Latitude	March	September
60° North	Mar 18	Sep 25
55° North	Mar 17	Sep 25
50° North	Mar 17	Sep 25
45° North	Mar 17	Sep 25
40° North	Mar 17	Sep 26
35° North	Mar 16	Sep 26
30° North	Mar 16	Sep 27
25° North	Mar 15	Sep 27
20° North	Mar 14	Sep 28
15° North	Mar 12	Sep 30
10° North	Mar 8	Oct 4
5° North	Feb 24	Oct 17
Equator	No equal day and night
5° South	Apr 14	Aug 29
10° South	Apr 1	Sep 10
15° South	Mar 28	Sep 14
20° South	Mar 26	Sep 16
25° South	Mar 25	Sep 17
30° South	Mar 24	Sep 18
35° South	Mar 24	Sep 19
40° South	Mar 23	Sep 19
45° South	Mar 23	Sep 19
50° South	Mar 23	Sep 20
55° South	Mar 23	Sep 20
60° South	Mar 22	Sep 20

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/equinox-not-equal.html

Please note how the observable equinoxes move in opposite directions when comparing the northern latitudes to the southern latitudes: moreover they move respectively according to the number of degrees north or south in opposite directions, for example, the true equal day equal night observable Vernal Equinox at five degrees north is 24 February on the calendar, while the true equal day equal night observable Vernal Equinox at latitude five degrees south is 14 April on the calendar. The true equal day equal night observable Autumnal Equinox at latitude five degrees north is 17 October on the calendar, while the true equal day equal night observable Autumnal Equinox at latitude five degrees south is 29 August on the calendar. Moreover the further you go from the equator, in either latitudinal direction, the further the day of equinox moves respectively in opposite directions. This again is irrefutable evidence, taken from physical and known observations, that the earth is a spinning globe traversing in an orbit around the sun. This simply cannot happen on a flat earth model. This is essentially the curvature of the earth being revealed in a calendar graph by known observations of the sun in its paths.

 

[daqq]

I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.

Show me a flat earth model where sundials will work.

And what I mean by that is a flat earth model where sundials in multiple locations will all work the same way at the same time, with the sun supposedly circling above the earth, no matter how you say it is supposed to be circling in your model or version. The following may not be the most scientific experiment but it certainly gets the point across, it is not difficult to visualize the reality: what you see on the video front cover screen, (the two opposing sundials set at angles on a book), represent two sundials placed on opposing sides, (north and south), in two opposite locations facing the equator, on a curved surface such as that of a spherical planet earth.

You cannot make this happen on a flat earth surface. Sundials simply will not work on a flat earth model, not the way they do on the spherical earth: for the shadows from the different sundial locations will not be the same, because the sun is simply too close in any flat earth model.

 

[patrick jane]

And what I mean by that is a flat earth model where sundials in multiple locations will all work the same way at the same time, with the sun supposedly circling above the earth, no matter how you say it is supposed to be circling in your model or version. The following may not be the most scientific experiment but it certainly gets the point across, it is not difficult to visualize the reality: what you see on the video front cover screen, (the two opposing sundials set at angles on a book), represent two sundials placed on opposing sides, (north and south), in two opposite locations facing the equator, on a curved surface such as that of a spherical planet earth.


You cannot make this happen on a flat earth surface. Sundials simply will not work on a flat earth model, not the way they do on the spherical earth: for the shadows from the different sundial locations will not be the same, because the sun is simply too close in any flat earth model.

Nope, you're simply completely misjudging the operation of the sun and moon above flat earth put out of your mind. Try to get that model with the beginner's map of flat earth. Unless you do that, you'll keep getting sidetracked like this.

 

[patrick jane]

The GREAT FLOOD on the FLAT EARTH


Does the Biblical Flood even make any sense in the globe model? How much water would it even take to cover the tops of the mountains anyway? What about the old "water vapor canopy model?What does the Bible actually say.......


11 minutes -

 

[daqq]

Nope, you're simply completely misjudging the operation of the sun and moon above flat earth put of your minf. Try to get that model with the beginner's map of flat earth. Unless you do that, you'll keep getting sidetracked like this.

The GREAT FLOOD on the FLAT EARTH


Does the Biblical Flood even make any sense in the globe model? How much water would it even take to cover the tops of the mountains anyway? What about the old "water vapor canopy model?What does the Bible actually say.......


11 minutes -

You still don't get it, Patrick, just like you didn't get it in the other thread: your flat-earth goose is cooked, your flat-earth theory is dead in the water, and no matter how much you hem and haw, and argue and ignore factual observations while trying to get others to compromise those factual observations, those factual observations are not going to go away. You can continue on with all of your supposed proofs without me, for as for me: end of thread.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

[MENTION=4980]DFT_Dave[/MENTION]

You never answered why everything is pulled in a downward direction rather than in any direction.

If you don't know the FE answer to this I can tell you.

 

[daqq]

He can't afford to.

He'd have to rip up part of his exegesis on Golgotha.

On the other hand, the calendar portrayed in the Book of the Luminaries is currently not possible anywhere on earth except around sixty degrees latitude south or possibly above sixty degrees latitude north, (and maybe not even anywhere in the northern latitudes). Sixty degrees south is below Australia, New Zealand, and the southern tip of Argentina: it is near the antarctic circle in the middle of nowhere, (nothing but ocean and perhaps a few islands). So if indeed there was any conspiracy, and NASA wanted to hide anything about God, it would more likely be something like a pole-shift at Golgotha, which may have changed the calendar and lengthened the year by a day and a quarter, (throwing off the Sabbath in what would have been a perfect 364-day year with fifty-two Sabbaths), and would thus prove to the world that the Prophets of old foretold the Messiah and the events surrounding his crucifixion, (Isaiah 24:19-20, Amos 8:9-10 etc., etc.).

 

[DFT_Dave]

Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:

I just went and made this image file from the video:

It is very simple: these are physical observations taken from these three different locations on the earth, all on the same day, (I cannot tell by the sound quality but I believe he means an equinox, (but may be speaking later of a solstice because he mentions December)), and the path of the sun moves in three different directions, that is, a straight line across the equator and opposing curvatures on the the two tropics. This is actually the curvature of the earth which is being revealed in the three different paths of the sun which all occur on the same day: not the sun itself moving in three different directions at the same time, (which is impossible). This is not possible on a flat earth model and the various types of sundials work for the very same reasons and in much the same way because the earth is spherical and spinning. You can theoretically place sundials at three locations on the same day, (I believe the equinoxes), on the two tropics and the equator, and they will all work properly so long as they are positioned correctly. Again these are physical observations: there is no question about these things, and they cannot work if the earth is flat and the sun is moving in a circle above a flat earth model. They only work in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe. It is all in the observations and observable realities we see from the earth even though things may not appear to be what they are.

I've watched the video and I want you to give me time to analyze it since I have not heard an argument from the three paths of the sun before. I want to understand this argument well enough to give an appropriate response.

The video starts out with what I believe is the heart of the problem of globe earth, which is it begins with the sun/the heavens and not the earth itself. On a globe I have to believe that water/oceans are not level and that distant ships and landscapes are not parallel to where the viewer is standing, even though they appear that way.

--Dave