ECT The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr

[john w]

What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the death, burial, resurrection? The "gospel of God." To wit:

"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33KJV


"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16 KJV

Comment: and with the 16:18 KJV "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 KJV )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God."



"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29 KJV


"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20 KJV

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12 KJV



"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23 KJV


"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18 KJV


"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." John 4:42 KJV


"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69 KJV


"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." John 11:27 KJV


"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:31 KJV

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36 KJV


"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16 KJV


"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10 KJV


"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 KJV


"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42 KJV


"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37 KJV

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9 KJV, Acts 9:16 KJV; Acts 22:10 KJV, Acts 22:16-17 KJV("trance"); Acts 26:16 KJV; 1 Cor. 11:23 KJV; 2 Cor. 12:1 KJV ; Gal. 2:2 KJV; Eph. 3:3 KJV; Col. 1:25 KJV; "But now"-Romans 16:26 KJV, Eph. 2:13 KJV, Col. 1:26 KJV / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17-18 KJV! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20 KJV


"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22 KJV

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Acts 13:28 KJV:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:29 KJV: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:30 KJV: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38-39 KJV

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.

 

[jamie]

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.

True. Jesus did not bear witness of himself, that was the job of the apostles.

 

[Interplanner]

True. Jesus did not bear witness of himself, that was the job of the apostles.

Total nonsense. The Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world--John the Baptiser. No one ever thought this meant sin would cease. It always meant to remove the debt of it; that's what justification is about. That is what the Lamb imagery is about.

Luke records one exchange with the Pharisees in which they justified themselves, or thought they had justification already bagged.

Sometimes a topic is just too big that it goes without saying.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the death, burial, resurrection? The "gospel of God." To wit:

"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33KJV


"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16 KJV

Comment: and with the 16:18 KJV "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 KJV )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God."



"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29 KJV


"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20 KJV

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12 KJV



"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23 KJV


"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18 KJV


"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." John 4:42 KJV


"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69 KJV


"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." John 11:27 KJV


"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:31 KJV

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36 KJV


"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16 KJV


"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10 KJV


"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 KJV


"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42 KJV


"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37 KJV

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9 KJV, Acts 9:16 KJV; Acts 22:10 KJV, Acts 22:16-17 KJV("trance"); Acts 26:16 KJV; 1 Cor. 11:23 KJV; 2 Cor. 12:1 KJV ; Gal. 2:2 KJV; Eph. 3:3 KJV; Col. 1:25 KJV; "But now"-Romans 16:26 KJV, Eph. 2:13 KJV, Col. 1:26 KJV / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17-18 KJV! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20 KJV


"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22 KJV

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Acts 13:28 KJV:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:29 KJV: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:30 KJV: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38-39 KJV

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.

:BRAVO:

 

[Danoh]

My reading of Acts in light of Paul's writings, and not the other way around, has continued to show that Paul's "Christ is the Son of God" invloved more than just that.

And Paul himself was saved by the very gospel of the uncircumcision he himself asserts had been his commission. As a blasphemer in the spiritual uncircumcision of his heart that he and his nation were declared before he was saved by grace, Matt. 12:30-32; Acts 7:51; Rom. 1-3; 9-11; Gal. 1 and 2; 1 Tim. 1; etc.

 

[Interplanner]

My reading of Acts in light of Paul's writings, and not the other way around, has continued to show that Paul's "Christ is the Son of God" invloved more than just that.

And Paul himself was saved by the very gospel of the uncircumcision he himself asserts had been his commission. As a blasphemer in the spiritual uncircumcision of his heart that he and his nation were declared before he was saved by grace, Matt. 12:30-32; Acts 7:51; Rom. 1-3; 9-11; Gal. 1 and 2; 1 Tim. 1; etc.

As far as I know Paul did not say 'Christ is the Son of God' as a summary in Acts, but rather, 'Jesus is the Christ/Messiah' which meant everything that was promised in the OT was fulfilled in his resurection, which meant that people were justified from their sins by the total work of Christ, and this stands proved by his resurrection. That was his mission from Gen 3; that is what Abraham saw; that is why the promises to David were transfered to him; that is what Is 53 and Dan 9 are about. It goes all the way back to 'I have given birth to a man--the LORD!' in Genesis after Messiah was promised. There are not two or three gospels, there is no other content of faith in the NT before, during or after for it was 'once and for all delivered.'

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There are not two or three gospels, there is no other content of faith in the NT before, during or after for it was 'once and for all delivered.'

:chuckle:

 

[john w]

.......There are not two or three gospels, there is no other content of faith in the NT before, during or after for it was 'once and for all delivered.'

=There are not two or three pieces of good news in the bible.


Made up. The LORD God never taught you, or anyone, that there is just one piece of good news in the book. You had to have some website "teach" you that. There is plenty of good news in the bible.

 

[patrick jane]

As far as I know Paul did not say 'Christ is the Son of God'

Romans 1:1-4 KJV -

 

[turbosixx]

Peter preached Paul's Acts 13 sermon in Acts 2. Of course they aren’t word for word but the points are the same.

Addressing Israel
Peter:
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
Paul:
16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel,

Christ descended from David
Peter:
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Paul:
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Christ died
Peter:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Paul:
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

David saw decay
Peter:
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Paul:
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Christ did not see decay
Peter:
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Paul:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Jesus resurrected
Peter:
32 This Jesus hath God raised up,
Paul:
30 But God raised him from the dead:

People witnessed the resurrection
Peter:
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Paul:
31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

Forgiveness of sins through Jesus
Peter:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul:
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Jesus is Israel’s savior
Peter:
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Paul:
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Remission vs. Forgiveness
Atonement future vs. Atonement now
Peter vs. Paul
Kingdom of Heaven vs. Body of Christ
Holy City vs. Heavenly Inheritance
Kings/Priests vs. Ambassadors

Things that are different...

 

[Nick M]

There are not two or three gospels, there is no other content of faith in the NT before, during or after for it was 'once and for all delivered.'

Let's check.

Genesis 6

7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.

Well, that isn't good. In fact that is bad. Really bad.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord...18 But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. 19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you;

Now that is good news. Really good news.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There is plenty of good news in the bible.

Did you hear the good news about Barn's larynx?

 

[john w]

Did you hear the good news about Barn's larynx?

Oh, you are a regular Rodney Dangerfield, on a roll this week, aren't you Mayor? Why don't you go visit your voice teacher, "Big Maude" Eleanora Poultice, Jr.-ette, and plot on perhaps replacing the lead tenor in the town band/choir, convincing him to go out in the town with you and El to sing karaoke all night, pour down shots of "MD 20/20," take a few steroids, and visit the local "Y," in the corner room, with the red light on. That will be a tale, you can tell your grand kids, as you sing "Acapella....Acapella...." to them. Am I getting through to you, squirt? Good.

 

[turbosixx]

Remission vs. Forgiveness
Atonement future vs. Atonement now
Peter vs. Paul
Kingdom of Heaven vs. Body of Christ
Holy City vs. Heavenly Inheritance
Kings/Priests vs. Ambassadors

Things that are different...

As much as you want them to be different, they're not.
The same Greek word is used, G859, in Acts 2:38 for "remissiom" and in Acts 13:38 for "forgiveness".

Another example, the household of God is built upon the Apostles, plural, not just Paul and not just Peter.
Eph. 2:19.....but you are fellow citizens with the saints,and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

Paul preached the same sermon after Peter.

 

[john w]

As much as you want them to be different, they're not.
The same Greek word is used, G859, in Acts 2:38 for "remissiom" and in Acts 13:38 for "forgiveness".

Another example, the household of God is built upon the Apostles, plural, not just Paul and not just Peter.
Eph. 2:19.....but you are fellow citizens with the saints,and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

Paul preached the same sermon after Peter.

"the household of God is built upon the Apostles, plural, not just Paul and not just Peter."-you


Those are the apostles and prophets "post Paul," not the 12 apostles(and not the "OT prophets").

The chronological order:

"OT"-prophets, then apostles


Luke 11:49 KJV Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:



"Post Paul"-prophets, then apostles

1 Corinthians 12:28 KJV-notice the order...details..


And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29 KJV-notice the order...details...

Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?


Ephesians 2:20 KJV-notice the order...details...


and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone


The bible is a book of details, precise, full of wisdom. Thus, if you want us to take you seriously, start paying attention to those details, as I, the great saint John W, do.

Dig?

 

[turbosixx]

The chronological order:

"OT"-prophets, then apostles

I agree with the order.

The bible is a book of details, precise, full of wisdom. Thus, if you want us to take you seriously, start paying attention to those details, as I, the great saint John W, do.

Dig?

Taking me seriously is totally up to you, I'm just trying to challenge your thinking. You said “Notice the change in Acts 13:” I pointed out the detail that there was no change because Peter preached the same sermon in Acts 2. So the order isn’t OT prophets, apostles (12) then Paul, but just apostles because they taught the same thing.

 

[john w]

Taking me seriously is totally up to you, I'm just trying to challenge your thinking. You said “Notice the change in Acts 13:” I pointed out the detail that there was no change because Peter preached the same sermon in Acts 2. So the order isn’t OT prophets, apostles (12) then Paul, but just apostles because they taught the same thing.

"just apostles because they taught the same thing."-you

Negative. Judas was one of the 12. Did Judas preach the same thing, the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV?

 

[turbosixx]

"just apostles because they taught the same thing."-you

Negative. Judas was one of the 12. Did Judas preach the same thing, the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV?

Do you not want to challenge your understanding of truth? You’re using a diversion tactic to ignore that fact that Paul preached the same sermon Peter did.

 

[john w]

Do you not want to challenge your understanding of truth? You’re using a diversion tactic to ignore that fact that Paul preached the same sermon Peter did.

Well, Hop Sing, you may debate others on TOL, that fall for your bait'nswitch, rabbit trail approach. That won't fly with me. I stay on topic, and my topic is this-your "argument:"


"just apostles because they taught the same thing."-you

Now-negative. Judas was one of the 12. Did Judas preach the same thing, the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, the "good news" Paul preached, as an apostle??