ECT The conditions of discipleship

[Cross Reference]

The conditions of discipleship

"If any man come to Me, and hate not …, he cannot be My disciple". Luke 14:26, also 27, 33.

If the closest relationships of life clash with the claims of Jesus Christ, He says it must be instant obedience to Himself. Discipleship means personal, passionate devotion to a Person, Our Lord Jesus Christ. There is a difference between devotion to a Person and devotion to principles or to a cause. Our Lord never proclaimed a cause; He proclaimed personal devotion to Himself. To be a disciple is to be a devoted love-slave of the Lord Jesus. Many of us who call ourselves Christians are not devoted to Jesus Christ. No man on earth has this passionate love to the Lord Jesus unless the Holy Ghost has imparted it to him. We may admire Him, we may respect Him and reverence Him, but we cannot love Him. The only Lover of the Lord Jesus is the Holy Ghost, and He sheds abroad the very love of God in our hearts. Whenever the Holy Ghost sees a chance of glorifying Jesus, He will take your heart, your nerves, your whole personality, and simply make you blaze and glow with devotion to Jesus Christ.

The Christian life is stamped by ‘moral spontaneous originality,’ consequently the disciple is open to the same charge that Jesus Christ was, viz., that of inconsistency. But Jesus Christ was always consistent to God, and the Christian must be consistent to the life of the *Son of God in him, not consistent to hard and fast creeds. Men pour themselves into creeds, and God has to blast them out of their prejudices before they can become devoted to Jesus Christ.

*See Gal 2:20 KJV

Chambers, O. (1986). My utmost for his highest: Selections for the year. Grand Rapids, MI: Oswald Chambers Publications; Marshall Pickering.

 

[oatmeal]

Chambers, if I read him right, speaks only of following the person, but says nothing of the words of the lord Jesus Christ.

That omission is a great error. Is he implying that his words are not necessary?

Jesus Christ claimed many causes and purposes for his life and ministry.

"I am come that they might have life and have it more abundantly" John 10:10

Luke 4:18-19

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 2:49

Matthew 7:26-27

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Chambers, if I read him right, speaks only of following the person, but says nothing of the words of the lord Jesus Christ.

That omission is a great error. Is he implying that his words are not necessary?

Are you implying it isn't necessary to follow the Lord Jesus Christ??

 

[THall]

If you want to talk about discipleship in context, try this;

John 8:31

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

 

[Cross Reference]

If you want to talk about discipleship in context, try this;

John 8:31

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

Why? His "Word" was the "Life", the literal personhood of Himself, His flesh!

 

[oatmeal]

Are you implying it isn't necessary to follow the Lord Jesus Christ??

Your OP does not contain a question

My reply did.

You answer first

 

[oatmeal]

If you want to talk about discipleship in context, try this;

John 8:31

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

That is the crux of the matter. There are two elements:

1. Who taught it

2. What was taught

 

[Cross Reference]

Your OP does not contain a question

My reply did.

You answer first

How does one 'know' His word without 'knowing' Him?

 

[serpentdove]

Many of us who call ourselves Christians are not devoted to Jesus Christ.

It's going to cost you something (2 Ti 3:12).

Flawless ~ Mercy Me

 

[oatmeal]

How does one 'know' His word without 'knowing' Him?

You want to know what what Jesus taught that God had recorded for us?

Read scripture.

For instance, Luke 4:16-21

or Mark 4:10-34

or John 10:10;14:6

for that matter, how do we get to know him?

Read scripture

For instance, Luke 4:16-21

or Mark 4:10-34

or John 10:10;14:6

 

[Cross Reference]

You want to know what what Jesus taught that God had recorded for us?

Read scripture.

For instance, Luke 4:16-21

or Mark 4:10-34

or John 10:10;14:6

for that matter, how do we get to know him?

Read scripture

For instance, Luke 4:16-21

or Mark 4:10-34

or John 10:10;14:6

If it wasn't possible to know God and Himself, why would Jesus say that it was? In fact, that is what Scripture explains as being God's will for our lives: "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the [intimate] knowledge of the truth". 1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV) [emphasis mine]

Why?

Because, ". . . . this is life eternal, that they might *know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 (KJV)

*to "know" in an intimate way as a son knows his father.

Now, if you believe just reading about Him in a hand manual is sufficient, know that this is written of you:

You will be: "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7 (KJV)

Fortunately, I don't believe this next verse applies to you:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)

However, continually rejecting the truth, as you demonstrate, doesn't improve your spiritual condition either and, time is running out..

 

[Cross Reference]

It's going to cost you something (2 Ti 3:12).

Flawless ~ Mercy Me

Indeed, it will cost us our lives in more than one way.

 

[oatmeal]

If it wasn't possible to know God and Himself, why would Jesus say that it was? In fact, that is what Scripture explains as being God's will for our lives: "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the [intimate] knowledge of the truth". 1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV) [emphasis mine]

Why?

Because, ". . . . this is life eternal, that they might *know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 (KJV)

*to "know" in an intimate way as a son knows his father.

Now, if you believe just reading about Him in a hand manual is sufficient, know that this is written of you:

You will be: "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7 (KJV)

Fortunately, I don't believe this next verse applies to you:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)

However, continually rejecting the truth, as you demonstrate, doesn't improve your spiritual condition either and, time is running out..

The only way to know God and His son Jesus Christ well is via learning God's record of himself and His son in scripture which is in the form of words.

Jeremiah 15:16

Psalm 119:16

Romans 4:3 "What saith the scripture?"

 

[Cross Reference]

The only way to know God and His son Jesus Christ well is via learning God's record of himself and His son in scripture which is in the form of words.

Jeremiah 15:16

Psalm 119:16

Romans 4:3 "What saith the scripture?"

Remember: "Ever learning and never able to sort things out". But you keep at it. Who knows what might be revealed to you? Stranger things have happened.

 

[oatmeal]

Remember: "Ever learning and never able to sort things out". But you keep at it. Who knows what might be revealed to you? Stranger things have happened.

Yes, I am well aware of that verse.

How did you find that verse?

a. by reading and learning scripture?

b. by ignoring scripture and guessing about life and using secular sources for you reference for truth?

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, I am well aware of that verse.

Aware?? You mean you read it and ignored it.

How did you find that verse?

By reading my Bible.

a. by reading and learning scripture?

No. By seeking God to understand His written word. I understand that that was the way Jesus did it.

b. by ignoring scripture and guessing about life and using secular sources for you reference for truth?

I thought you just wrote you were aware of that verse?? What source did you use?

 

[serpentdove]

Indeed, it will cost us our lives in more than one way.

That tends to happen (Mt 10:34-36, Jn 16:2, 15:20).

 

[Cross Reference]

That tends to happen (Mt 10:34-36, Jn 16:2, 15:20).

Greater 'tending' is forthcoming.

 

[oatmeal]

Aware?? You mean you read it and ignored it.



By reading my Bible.



No. By seeking God to understand His written word. I understand that that was the way Jesus did it.



I thought you just wrote you were aware of that verse?? What source did you use?

That is how Jesus did it.

He learned scripture, believed it and taught it.

When we learn scripture, believe it and teach it, we are not ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth, we are learning scripture, the truth that God knows we need to know and we are getting the results.

My point is the only exacting and reliable source of knowledge of God and His son is found in the words of scripture.

When we believe scripture, revelation opens up to us, but revelation from God never, never, never, never contradicts or trumps or deviates the least little bit from the revelation of God's written words.

God does not contradict himself.

The only tangible source everyone can have to know God is scripture, specifically, what the words in the word of God teach us.

Acts 1:8 have you received the power that Jesus Christ promised? All Christians have received that power, but how many use it? Do you? I do. It is that power that makes us effective witnesses of the lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

Me

That is how Jesus did it.

He learned scripture, believed it and taught it.

Who taught Him?

When we learn scripture, believe it and teach it, we are not ever learning yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth, we are learning scripture, the truth that God knows we need to know and we are getting the results.

Without someone to teach you you can only assume that what you know is the truth of it all. Who teaches you?

My point is the only exacting and reliable source of knowledge of God and His son is found in the words of scripture.

Yes. And?

When we believe scripture, revelation opens up to us, but revelation from God never, never, never, never contradicts or trumps or deviates the least little bit from the revelation of God's written words.

Really? How would you know the difference when you don't know and can't know the difference except by revelation since the written word is revelation truth, written for those who know "the Way, Truth, and the Life", hmm????

God does not contradict himself.

Indeed, He does not however, can He repent?

The only tangible source everyone can have to know God is scripture, specifically, what the words in the word of God teach us.

And all meaningless if not by revelation.

Acts 1:8 have you received the power that Jesus Christ promised? All Christians have received that power, but how many use it? Do you? I do.

All Christians?? Have you? You don't read as if you have. Are you a pentecostal Christian? If not would explain much re your shallow, indefinite, reasoning.

It is that power that makes us effective witnesses of the lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, it does. I know that for a fact.

I find it interesting that Jesus never mentions a continuation of the written word beyond what was already "revealed" by the OT scribes. Likewise with Peter, Paul and John, et al. However, He did say this that should at least give us a clue:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you".
. . . "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you."John 14:26; 16:12-15 (KJV)

Interesting, isn't that that was fulfilled in Acts 2 and that it was born again Christians who were so empowered. Again, no written word here except what was revealed to Peter to speak:

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: Acts 2:16-20 (KJV)

A prophecy fulfilled and continuing to be fulfilled __ unless you want to call God a liar.
"
Perhaps if you: "Committ thy way unto the Lord; trust also in Him; and He shall bring it to pass." per Psalm 37:5 is in order for you to understand better the things for which you believe I need corrected in my thinking.