The Body of Christ Did Not Begin on the Day of Pentecost

[Jerry Shugart]

The Scriptures reveal that when the nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with the LORD the children of Israel were a special people unto Him:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

On the other hand, during the Church age there are no special people unto the LORD except for believers and in the Body of Christ there is no distinction between the Jews and those of other nationalities:

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all" (Col.3:10-11).​

These facts serve to prove that when the LORD's program for Israel is in view then that program cannot be about the Body of Christ because His two different programs are mutually exclusive. In other words, when the Divine plan toward Israel is in effect then the children of Israel are above all people on the face of the earth so therefore it is impossible that at the same time the Divine plan is also toward the Body of Christ where there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles. Sir Robert Anderson wrote the following:

"For just as we aver that 'God cannot lie,' we may assert that He cannot act at the same time upon two wholly different and incompatible principles" (Sir Robert Anderson, Forgotten Truths [Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 1980], 44).​

Now we will examine what Peter said in his second Pentecostal sermon and see if at that time the nation of Israel was in view or whether it was the Body of Christ. It has to be one or the other and it cannot be both at the same time.

Peter told the nation of Israel the following:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:19-21).​

Peter was telling the nation to repent and if she would then the Lord Jesus would return to the earth and the nation would enjoy the times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord.

Therefore, on the day of Pentecost the plan of the LORD was in regard to the nation of Israel and had nothing to do with the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ did not start on the day of Pentecost!

 

[Squeaky]

I can understand what your trying to say, but to most that will be very confusing.
Jews And Gentiles
Gal 2:6-9
6 But from those who seemed to be something-- whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man-- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Eph 3:6
6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
Col 3:9-14
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
Gal 5:3-6
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Gal 5:3-6
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
(NKJ)

xxx Peter was to call the Jews to Christ. Paul was to call the Gentiles to Christ. They were both headed for the same goal. The revelations of Jesus Christ.


Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
(NKJ)

Matt 4:7
7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
(NKJ)

Acts 10:28-40
28 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 "Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?"
30 So Cornelius said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 "and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God.
32 'Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.'
33 "So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before God, to hear all the things commanded you by God."
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
36 "The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ-- He is Lord of all--
37 "that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:
38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
39 "And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree.
40 "Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,
(NKJ)
xxx The goal is the Holy Spirit. And then the revelations of Jesus Christ.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 1:22
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

Eph 1:14
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
(NKJ)

John 10:14-16
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
(NKJ)

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can understand what your trying to say, but to most that will be very confusing.

Yes, it can be confusing to those who put more faith in the traditions of man than they do in what the Scriptures actually reveal.

Can you not see that the two programs of the Lord toward Israel and toward the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive?

Can you not see that the LORD's program on the day of Pentecost was in regard to the nation of Israel and not the Body of Christ?

 

[Squeaky]

I can see that, but do you see they both have the same goal. The revelations of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can see that, but do you see they both have the same goal. The revelations of Jesus Christ.

So what? That has nothing to do with the fact that the Body of Christ DID NOT begin on the day of Pentecost.

 

[Robert Pate]

God chose the Jewish people to bring forth the savior of the world. He accomplished his purpose in doing that. The law that was given at Mount Sinai was a keeper for the Jews until Jesus arrived. After Jesus arrived they were no longer required to live according to the law. This is why Paul wrote, "The just shall live by faith" and not according to the law.

On the day of Pentecost the Gospel came into the world for the very first time in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing like this had ever happened before. God was revealing to the world what his Son Jesus Christ had accomplished in his doing and his dying on behalf of the human race, which we now know as the Gospel.

just as the Jews had been the keepers and the oratorators of the law, they were now called to be the keepers and the oratorators of the Gospel. Jesus told the disciples to go into all of the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.

It was the Gospel coming into the world on the day of Pentecost that gave birth to the New Testament. This is very evident in Acts chapter 2. Before Acts 2 there is nothing happening. After Acts 2 there is an explosion of Christian faith and preaching of the Gospel. Sorry Jerry but you are wrong.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Sorry Jerry but you are wrong.

Why did you just ignore the evidence which I gave that demonstrates that it is impossible that the Body of Christ had its beginning on the day of Pentecost?

Can you not see that the LORD's plan for Israel was still operational on the day of Pentecost, as witnessed by what Peter said to the nation of Israel at Acts 3:19-21?

As I said, the LORD's plan toward Israel and His plan toward the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive. Since what was going on on the day of Pentecost was in regard to Israel then it is obvious that the Body of Christ did not begin then.

 

[clefty]

The Scriptures reveal that when the nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with the LORD the children of Israel were a special people unto Him:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

On the other hand, during the Church age there are no special people unto the LORD except for believers and in the Body of Christ there is no distinction between the Jews and those of other nationalities:

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all" (Col.3:10-11).​

These facts serve to prove that when the LORD's program for Israel is in view then that program cannot be about the Body of Christ because His two different programs are mutually exclusive. In other words, when the Divine plan toward Israel is in effect then the children of Israel are above all people on the face of the earth so therefore it is impossible that at the same time the Divine plan is also toward the Body of Christ where there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles. Sir Robert Anderson wrote the following:

"For just as we aver that 'God cannot lie,' we may assert that He cannot act at the same time upon two wholly different and incompatible principles" (Sir Robert Anderson, Forgotten Truths [Grand Rapids: Kregel Publications, 1980], 44).​

Now we will examine what Peter said in his second Pentecostal sermon and see if at that time the nation of Israel was in view or whether it was the Body of Christ. It has to be one or the other and it cannot be both at the same time.

Peter told the nation of Israel the following:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:19-21).​

Peter was telling the nation to repent and if she would then the Lord Jesus would return to the earth and the nation would enjoy the times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord.

Therefore, on the day of Pentecost the plan of the LORD was in regard to the nation of Israel and had nothing to do with the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ did not start on the day of Pentecost!

Stephen was speaking to this and they killed him for it...

THIS IS HE, THAT WAS IN THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS WITH THE ANGEL WHICH SPAKE TO HIM IN THE MOUNT SINAI, AND WITH OUR FATHERS: WHO RECEIVED THE LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US.” Acts 7:38.

So it is no surprise they made the church so different NOW than from what it used to be...I mean, back then at least they kept Pentecost and the other feasts still...

Thankfully the reformation continues...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So it is no surprise they made the church so different now than from what it used to be...

The blood of Christ was essential to the formation of the Body of Christ (Eph.2:13-16) so it is impossible that the Body existed in OT times.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why did you just ignore the evidence which I gave that demonstrates that it is impossible that the Body of Christ had its beginning on the day of Pentecost?

Can you not see that the LORD's plan for Israel was still operational on the day of Pentecost, as witnessed by what Peter said to the nation of Israel at Acts 3:19-21?

As I said, the LORD's plan toward Israel and His plan toward the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive. Since what was going on on the day of Pentecost was in regard to Israel then it is obvious that the Body of Christ did not begin then.

Without the Gospel there would not be a New Testament church. the Gospel is the basis for everything in the New Testament. There is no other plan for Israel or the church. "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. God's plan for the church is that they believe and have faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

 

[jamie]

The blood of Christ was essential to the formation of the Body of Christ (Eph.2:13-16) so it is impossible that the Body existed in OT times.

The body of Christ began at Mount Sinai when the people said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." (Exodus 19:8)

 

[Ktoyou]

The body of Christ began at Mount Sinai when the people said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." (Exodus 19:8)

You are going to think what you want to think, no matter what. So, no :blabla::blabla::blabla: will work

 

[Epoisses]

Peter, Paul, John and James were all part of the body of Christ.....duh!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Without the Gospel there would not be a New Testament church. the Gospel is the basis for everything in the New Testament. There is no other plan for Israel or the church. "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. God's plan for the church is that they believe and have faith in Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

You did not answer anything that I gave you as evidence that the Body of Christ did not begin on the day of Pentecost.

 

[clefty]

The blood of Christ was essential to the formation of the Body of Christ (Eph.2:13-16) so it is impossible that the Body existed in OT times.

Tell it to Stephen...he called it a church in the wilderness...

Tell it to Paul he wrote of gentiles becoming citizens of Israel that church in the wilderness...

That blood was shed signing the New Covenant and sealing it with His death...and His immediately His followers STILL went and celebrated the Sabbath as was the commandment...oh and met for Pentecost etc

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter, Paul, John and James were all part of the body of Christ.....duh!

Yes, they are all in the Body but the point I am making is that on the day of Pentecost the LORD was dealing with Israel and not the Body of Christ.

Since the LORD's program toward Israel and His program toward the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive then either the LORD is dealing with Israel at Acts 2 or the Body of Christ. It can't be both. Either one or the other.

And what Peter said to the nation at Acts 3:19-21 makes it clear that on that day the LORD was dealing with Israel and not the Body of Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Tell it to Stephen...he called it a church in the wilderness...

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Joseph Henry Thayer says that one of the meanings of that word as found in the LXX is "the assembly of Israelites...esp. when gathered for sacred purposes" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1977], 196).

Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity."

That "church (ekklesia)" is not the same Church, which is His Body.

 

[Epoisses]

Yes, they are all in the Body but the point I am making is that on the day of Pentecost the LORD was dealing with Israel and not the Body of Christ.

Since the LORD's program toward Israel and His program toward the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive then either the LORD is dealing with Israel at Acts 2 or the Body of Christ. It can't be both. Either one or the other.

And what Peter said to the nation at Acts 3:19-21 makes it clear that on that day the LORD was dealing with Israel and not the Body of Christ.

Believing Israel was and is part of the body of Christ to the Dispensational's dismay.

 

[clefty]

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Joseph Henry Thayer says that one of the meanings of that word as found in the LXX is "the assembly of Israelites...esp. when gathered for sacred purposes" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1977], 196).

Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" [emphasis added] (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. M. Eerdmans Publishing 1971] Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity."

That "church (ekklesia)" is not the same Church, which is His Body.

You are so right...the church is not the same as the Church...the latter worked very hard to make itself different than what are His people Israel...that church in the wilderness...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Believing Israel was and is part of the body of Christ to the Dispensational's dismay.

What was going on the day of Pentecost? Were the children of Israel a special people unto the LORD then?:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

If that is true then it is clear that the Body of Christ was not in view then because in the Body there is no distinction between the Jew and other nationalities:

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all" (Col.3:10-11).​

In his comments on these verses Norman L. Geisler writes the following:

"In Christ distinctions are removed. These include national distinctions (Greek or Jew...); religious distinctions (circumcised or uncircumcised)..." (Norman L. Geisler, "Colossians," in The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament ed. John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck [Colorado Springs: ChariotVictor Publishing, 1983], 681).

These facts serve to prove that when the LORD's program for Israel is in view then that program cannot be about the Body of Christ because His two different programs are mutually exclusive. And at Acts 2 the LORD's program toward Israel remains in effect and therefore what was happening on the day of Pentecost had nothing to do with the Body of Christ.