Supreme Court Ruling Brings Split in Antiabortion Movement

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer- Monday, June 4, 2007


SOURCE: Washington Post

In a highly visible rift in the anti-abortion movement, a coalition of evangelical Protestant and Roman Catholic groups is attacking a longtime ally, Focus on the Family founder James C. Dobson.

Using rhetoric that they have reserved in the past for abortion clinics, some of the coalition's leaders accuse Dobson and other national antiabortion leaders of building an "industry" around relentless fundraising and misleading information.

At the center of the dispute is the Supreme Court's April 18 decision upholding the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, a federal law against a procedure in which a doctor partially delivers a late-term fetus before crushing its skull.

Dobson and many other antiabortion leaders hailed the 5 to 4 ruling as a victory; abortion-rights organizations saw it as a defeat. But six weeks later, its consequences have been, in part, the reverse.

"The Supreme Court decision totally galvanized our supporters" by raising the prospect that the court could soon overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 opinion that established a woman's right to choose an abortion, said Cecile Richards, president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "Both our direct-mail and online giving got a serious bump," she said.

Among antiabortion activists, meanwhile, the decision in Gonzales v. Carhart has reopened an old split between incrementalists who support piecemeal restrictions and purists who seek a wholesale prohibition on abortions.

In an open letter to Dobson that was published as a full-page ad May 23 in the Colorado Springs Gazette, Focus on the Family's hometown newspaper, and May 30 in the Washington Times, the heads of five small but vocal groups called the Carhart decision "wicked," and accused Dobson of misleading Christians by applauding it.

Carhart is even "more wicked than Roe" because it is "not a ban, but a partial-birth abortion manual" that affirms the legality of late-term abortions "as long as you follow its guidelines," the ads said. "Yet, for many years you have misled the Body of Christ about the ban, and now about the ruling itself."

A Focus on the Family spokesman said that Dobson would not comment. But the organization's vice president, Tom Minnery, said that Dobson rejoiced over the ruling "because we, and most pro-lifers, are sophisticated enough to know we're not going to win a total victory all at once. We're going to win piece by piece."

Doctors adopted the late-term procedure "out of convenience," Minnery added. "The old procedure, which is still legal, involves using forceps to pull the baby apart in utero, which means there is greater legal liability and danger of internal bleeding from a perforated uterus. So we firmly believe there will be fewer later-term abortions as a result of this ruling."

Brian Rohrbough, president of Colorado Right to Life and a signer of the ads, disagreed.

"All you have to do is read the ruling, and you will find that this will never save a single child, because even though the justices say this one technique is mostly banned -- not completely banned -- there are lots of other techniques, and they even encourage abortionists to find less shocking means to kill late-term babies," he said.

Another signer, the Rev. Bob Enyart, a Christian talk radio host and pastor of the Denver Bible Church, said the real issue is fundraising.

"Over the past seven years, the partial-birth abortion ban as a fundraising technique has brought in over a quarter of a billion dollars" for major antiabortion groups, "but the ban has no authority to prevent a single abortion, and pro-life donors were never told that," he said. "That's why we call it the pro-life industry."

In Rohrbough's view, partisan politics is also involved.

"What happened in the abortion world is that groups like National Right to Life, they're really a wing of the Republican Party, and they're not geared to push for personhood for an unborn child -- they're geared to getting Republicans elected," he said. "So we're seeing these ridiculous laws like the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban put forward, and then we're deceived about what they really do."

Chuck Donovan, executive vice president of the Family Research Council, a Washington advocacy group allied with Dobson, said the dispute is the most visible rift in the antiabortion movement in at least a decade. He called the ads "a bit bizarre" and said they "might be an attention-getting device" for some of the signers, which also included the heads of the American Life League, Operation Rescue/Operation Save America and the Catholic group Human Life International.

"But," he added, "there are certainly a fair number of people, including in our own building, who think the [Supreme Court] decision's practical importance has been overrated -- that, practically, there may not be even one fewer abortion in the country as a result."
 

Maximeee

Death2impiety's Wife
Gold Subscriber
I still wonder if Dobson read the ruling. How can you celebrate such a wicked thing?

The ruling is a manual on how to kill babies, not save them. Word by word it's told how abortionists are allowed to kill a baby. They are told how they can tear a baby apart and we're supposed to celebrate? Who are we kidding?

This is not a partial victory. Nothing is banned and babies are still slaughtered every single day. Way to go, Dr Dobson, celebrating over the corpses of human beings who have a right to live.

Anybody with a brain can read that ruling and see there is no intent at ALL to save the unborn. The people who celebrate this ruling are blinded by lies and need to see the truth. Anyone who supports this, isn't pro-life, but pro-abortion.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
A Focus on the Family spokesman said that Dobson would not comment. But the organization's vice president, Tom Minnery, said that Dobson rejoiced over the ruling "because we, and most pro-lifers, are sophisticated enough to know we're not going to win a total victory all at once. We're going to win piece by piece."
Sadly for the unborn... Focus on the Family is apparently taking the above strategy very literally.
 

WandererInFog

New member
I think this article though is missing what the real split in the pro-life movement ever this is.
This isn't a split between people who favor an incremental approach to banning abortion and those favor a a total ban. This is a split between people who have actually read the decision and understand it and those who haven't. There is no victory in AT ALL in this decision for the pro-life movement, incremental or otherwise.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
It matters not how one murders another person. Murder is murder. An alleged ban on one type of murder is worthless. We need a ban on all murder.
 

WandererInFog

New member
I still wonder if Dobson read the ruling. How can you celebrate such a wicked thing?

Because to admit that there is no victory in this decision would require that groups like Focus on the Family (and Dobson personally) to admit to their followers that all the time and money they've devoted for a decade and half to banning "Partial Birth" abortion has amounted to absolutely nothing.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I think this article though is missing what the real split in the pro-life movement ever this is.
This isn't a split between people who favor an incremental approach to banning abortion and those favor a a total ban. This is a split between people who have actually read the decision and understand it and those who haven't. There is no victory in AT ALL in this decision for the pro-life movement, incremental or otherwise.
Excellent post! I agree.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
It matters not how one murders another person. Murder is murder. An alleged ban on one type of murder is worthless. We need a ban on all murder.
True, and Bob made this exact point in his presentation at the state capitol.
 

Servo

Formerly Shimei!
LIFETIME MEMBER
But the organization's vice president, Tom Minnery, said that Dobson rejoiced over the ruling "because we, and most pro-lifers, are sophisticated enough to know we're not going to win a total victory all at once. We're going to win piece by piece."

What did we win exactly?
 

elected4ever

New member
lets face it.The Democrat and Republican parties have to have issues to keep their party base engaged in the elections. Abortion is but one of these issues. If you will also notice , the hot button issues that they talk about also divert the attention away from the real issues that actually would make a difference. Issues such as the bankruptcy of the monetary system. The globalization of our military. The extension of empirical power. The willingness of our officials to ignore the requirements the Constitution places upon them and Foster centralized power. The lose of liberty.

They support policies of death rather than life and are creating a culture of death. The more they can press the button the less and less time we have to to devote to any single issue. We should not have to be waring against our own government to do what is right.

I believe it was Tolstoy, The spelling might not be right, who said to the effect, "America is great because she is good. When she ceases to be great it will be because America is no longer good." This was written some 100 years ago. Where we were once a beacon of hope in the world, we have become one of the most despised countries in the world. We are now feared and hated. Quite a change wouldn't you say. Such is the fate of a lawless nation.
 

Adam

New member
Hall of Fame
lets face it.The Democrat and Republican parties have to have issues to keep their party base engaged in the elections. Abortion is but one of these issues. If you will also notice , the hot button issues that they talk about also divert the attention away from the real issues that actually would make a difference. Issues such as the bankruptcy of the monetary system. The globalization of our military. The extension of empirical power. The willingness of our officials to ignore the requirements the Constitution places upon them and Foster centralized power. The lose of liberty.
You mention the 'issues' of the republican party. Attached is a screenshot from the Issues menu at www.rnc.org Can some rePublican tell me, where in that lengthy menu, is the issue of abortion?
 

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
Silver Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You mention the 'issues' of the republican party. Attached is a screenshot from the Issues menu at www.rnc.org Can some rePublican tell me, where in that lengthy menu, is the issue of abortion?

If you rest your mouse on "About the GOP," you will get a mini-menu. Click on "Party Platform." A PDF file will pop up. To find anything on abortion, you have to scroll all the way down to page 84. This is what I found:

As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of
Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to
life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution
and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections
apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that
right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion
and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges
who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.
Our goal is to ensure that women with problem pregnancies have the kind of
support, material and otherwise, they need for themselves and for their babies, not to be
punitive towards those for whose difficult situation we have only compassion. We oppose
abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who
have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption
services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to
adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption. We join the President in
supporting crisis pregnancy programs and parental notification laws. And we applaud
President Bush for allowing states to extend health care coverage to unborn children.
We praise the President for his bold leadership in defense of life. We praise him
for signing the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This important legislation ensures that
every infant born alive – including an infant who survives an abortion procedure – is
considered a person under federal law.
We praise Republicans in Congress for passing, with strong bipartisan support, a
ban on the inhumane procedure known as partial birth abortion. And we applaud
President Bush for signing legislation outlawing partial birth abortion and for vigorously
defending it in the courts.
In signing the partial birth abortion ban, President Bush reminded us that “the
most basic duty of government is to defend the life of the innocent. Every person,
however frail or vulnerable, has a place and a purpose in this world.” We affirm the
inherent dignity and worth of all people. We oppose the non-consensual withholding of
care or treatment because of disability, age, or infirmity, just as we oppose euthanasia and
assisted suicide, which especially endanger the poor and those on the margins of society.
We support President Bush’s decision to restore the Drug Enforcement Administration’s
policy that controlled substances shall not be used for assisted suicide. We applaud
Congressional Republicans for their leadership against those abuses and their pioneering
legislation to focus research and treatment resources on the alleviation of pain and the
care of terminally ill patients.
 

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
Silver Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Page 84!?! Not really a 'hot topic' for them is it?

Nope. I just scanned it for the words "abortion," "women," and "choice." Believe it or not, I found the phrase "women's health" up further and it had nothing to do with abortion. :shocked: So, I kept going. I found it under family issues. Most of the first 83 pages had to do with homeland security and supporting the president (Good thing I too speed reading class in high school. :chuckle: ).
 

elected4ever

New member
You mention the 'issues' of the republican party. Attached is a screenshot from the Issues menu at www.rnc.org Can some rePublican tell me, where in that lengthy menu, is the issue of abortion?
Where are the ISSUES of The Right to Life, The right to LIBERTY, and the Right to HAPPINESS (property) addressed by ether party. It is a socialist agenda propagated by conservative and liberal socialist.
 

jeremiah

BANNED
Banned
If I were a baby in the womb, I would want a Bob Enyart fighting for my life, rather than a James Dobson.

I do not know how to put it any more simply.

Perhaps James Dobson should ask himself that question, or some "Nathan" should pose it to him.

I definately would not want the "newest" pro- life hero, Justice Kennedy, within 4 inches of my navel! I know exactly what he would like done to me.:cry:
 

Irenaeus

New member
The costs of equality

The costs of equality

By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer- Monday, June 4, 2007


SOURCE: Washington Post

In a highly visible rift in the anti-abortion movement, a coalition of evangelical Protestant and Roman Catholic groups is attacking a longtime ally, Focus on the Family founder James C. Dobson.

Using rhetoric that they have reserved in the past for abortion clinics, some of the coalition's leaders accuse Dobson and other national antiabortion leaders of building an "industry" around relentless fundraising and misleading information.

At the center of the dispute is the Supreme Court's April 18 decision upholding the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, a federal law against a procedure in which a doctor partially delivers a late-term fetus before crushing its skull.

Dobson and many other antiabortion leaders hailed the 5 to 4 ruling as a victory; abortion-rights organizations saw it as a defeat. But six weeks later, its consequences have been, in part, the reverse.

"The Supreme Court decision totally galvanized our supporters" by raising the prospect that the court could soon overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 opinion that established a woman's right to choose an abortion, said Cecile Richards, president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "Both our direct-mail and online giving got a serious bump," she said.

Among antiabortion activists, meanwhile, the decision in Gonzales v. Carhart has reopened an old split between incrementalists who support piecemeal restrictions and purists who seek a wholesale prohibition on abortions.

In an open letter to Dobson that was published as a full-page ad May 23 in the Colorado Springs Gazette, Focus on the Family's hometown newspaper, and May 30 in the Washington Times, the heads of five small but vocal groups called the Carhart decision "wicked," and accused Dobson of misleading Christians by applauding it.

Carhart is even "more wicked than Roe" because it is "not a ban, but a partial-birth abortion manual" that affirms the legality of late-term abortions "as long as you follow its guidelines," the ads said. "Yet, for many years you have misled the Body of Christ about the ban, and now about the ruling itself."

A Focus on the Family spokesman said that Dobson would not comment. But the organization's vice president, Tom Minnery, said that Dobson rejoiced over the ruling "because we, and most pro-lifers, are sophisticated enough to know we're not going to win a total victory all at once. We're going to win piece by piece."

Doctors adopted the late-term procedure "out of convenience," Minnery added. "The old procedure, which is still legal, involves using forceps to pull the baby apart in utero, which means there is greater legal liability and danger of internal bleeding from a perforated uterus. So we firmly believe there will be fewer later-term abortions as a result of this ruling."

Brian Rohrbough, president of Colorado Right to Life and a signer of the ads, disagreed.

"All you have to do is read the ruling, and you will find that this will never save a single child, because even though the justices say this one technique is mostly banned -- not completely banned -- there are lots of other techniques, and they even encourage abortionists to find less shocking means to kill late-term babies," he said.

Another signer, the Rev. Bob Enyart, a Christian talk radio host and pastor of the Denver Bible Church, said the real issue is fundraising.

"Over the past seven years, the partial-birth abortion ban as a fundraising technique has brought in over a quarter of a billion dollars" for major antiabortion groups, "but the ban has no authority to prevent a single abortion, and pro-life donors were never told that," he said. "That's why we call it the pro-life industry."

In Rohrbough's view, partisan politics is also involved.

"What happened in the abortion world is that groups like National Right to Life, they're really a wing of the Republican Party, and they're not geared to push for personhood for an unborn child -- they're geared to getting Republicans elected," he said. "So we're seeing these ridiculous laws like the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban put forward, and then we're deceived about what they really do."

Chuck Donovan, executive vice president of the Family Research Council, a Washington advocacy group allied with Dobson, said the dispute is the most visible rift in the antiabortion movement in at least a decade. He called the ads "a bit bizarre" and said they "might be an attention-getting device" for some of the signers, which also included the heads of the American Life League, Operation Rescue/Operation Save America and the Catholic group Human Life International.

"But," he added, "there are certainly a fair number of people, including in our own building, who think the [Supreme Court] decision's practical importance has been overrated -- that, practically, there may not be even one fewer abortion in the country as a result."

You're neglecting something fundamental. "Safe, legal and rare" is a contradiction in terms. If abortion is safe and legal, then it won't be rare unless Congress & state legislatures enact laws making it rarer. The Gonzales v. Carhart decision enables Congress and the states to do just that. That's why pro-death advocates find it so disturbing.

Here's another aspect of the debate not yet parsed that I call "cost-shifting", so let me lay out the argument. Men and women are not sexually equal due to their different biology. But if women are to be sexually equal to men, they must be able to walk away from the unequal effects of sex - pregnancy - just as men can. To provide this equality, the law must enable women to shift the cost of their unequal biology to their unborn children. Hence, the law awards women the "right" to choose to have an abortion while burdening the unborn with the corresponding obligation to suffer extermination.

See the shifting of costs to secure equality? To make people equal by law, the costs accruing to individuals must always be shifted to other individuals by law. There are no exceptions.

Now, observing this cost structure, one immediately understands how one goes about making abortion rarer although it's still legal: Increase the costs of abortion to women through various legislative contrivances such as (1) requiring them to view sonograms before aborting, (2) obtaining consent from parents or spouses or biological fathers before aborting, (3) viewing videos of the abortion procedure before aborting, etc.

Abortion proponents understand this better than you do. If you don't catch up to them, they'll always be eating your lunch.
 

elected4ever

New member
You're neglecting something fundamental. "Safe, legal and rare" is a contradiction in terms. If abortion is safe and legal, then it won't be rare unless Congress & state legislatures enact laws making it rarer. The Gonzales v. Carhart decision enables Congress and the states to do just that. That's why pro-death advocates find it so disturbing.

Here's another aspect of the debate not yet parsed that I call "cost-shifting", so let me lay out the argument. Men and women are not sexually equal due to their different biology. But if women are to be sexually equal to men, they must be able to walk away from the unequal effects of sex - pregnancy - just as men can. To provide this equality, the law must enable women to shift the cost of their unequal biology to their unborn children. Hence, the law awards women the "right" to choose to have an abortion while burdening the unborn with the corresponding obligation to suffer extermination.

See the shifting of costs to secure equality? To make people equal by law, the costs accruing to individuals must always be shifted to other individuals by law. There are no exceptions.

Now, observing this cost structure, one immediately understands how one goes about making abortion rarer although it's still legal: Increase the costs of abortion to women through various legislative contrivances such as (1) requiring them to view sonograms before aborting, (2) obtaining consent from parents or spouses or biological fathers before aborting, (3) viewing videos of the abortion procedure before aborting, etc.

Abortion proponents understand this better than you do. If you don't catch up to them, they'll always be eating your lunch.
IT IS NOT UP TO THE STATE TO SAY WHO HAS A RIGHT TO LIFE. IT IS NOT UP TO WOMEN TO DECIDE WHO HAS A RIGHT TO LIFE. THE RIGHT TO LIFE IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT THAT IS TO BE DEFENDED BY THE STATE. IF THE MOST INNOCENT AND DEFENSELESS AMOUNG US ARE LEFT DEFENSELESS BY THE STATE THEN WHAT CHANCE DO WE HAVE FOR THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY OR THE PERSUIT OF HAPPYNESS. WITH OUT LIFE THERE IS NO FUTURE AND NO VISION TO PERSUE. WITHOUT A VISION MY PEOPLE PERISH. AMERICA IS IN THE THROWS OF DEATH.
 
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