Suicidality and the Second Amendment

[Idolater]

Pertinent threads:

All Things Second Amendment

I'm pulling an off-topic conversation into a new thread. Most Americans would agree with me that calling the NRA terrorists, instead of shils, is a silly idea. And while most Americans would agree with me that gun laws should be toughened, I doubt my particular line in the sand would be that...

theologyonline.com

Guns!

One of my faves!

theologyonline.com

About two-thirds of gun deaths in America are by suicide.

But what you may not know and I certainly didn't appreciate it til this week, is that mass shooters, school shooters, are invariably wavering between suicide and homicide leading up to their massacres.

You've noticed like I have, that a great proportion of these criminals get killed during the massacre by either police or another innocent person who kills him (it's always a him). I've called them "Kamikaze" for years because of this outcome, which I just attributed to them accomplishing what they intended to do, which appeared to be to murder as many people as possible before dying themselves.

But I didn't know about their uniform struggle with suicidality. This makes them not Kamikaze, the Kamikaze were willing to die to accomplish their mission, but they weren't otherwise thinking of dying.

So what are our policies right now for helping people who are struggling with suicidality? With suicidal tendencies, suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideations? What's causing it? How can we stop it?

All are welcome here.

 

[ok doser]

During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others

 

[Idolater]

During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others

I know we tend to be right-leaning here, which means minimal government service, but are there any services our government is already providing that could be expanded, or are there any new services our government could offer citizens who struggle with this horrible problem?

The cost of anything like this would just be chalked up to the cost of our freedom, like our military spending, and spending to keep our government's branches running.

It seems like it would be a tiny cost, compared to say, offering a million USD to buyback everybody's guns. Just to stop suicide.

There's got to be a more rational way to help people with suicidality than to do what England and Australia did, and what basically every other stable democracy do now wrt gun rights. The problem, or the single biggest cause of the problem of gun violence, is suicidality, not guns.

 

[Gary K]

During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others

This is why Jesus tells us that the peace He gives us is so far superior to the peace the world gives us as He spent his entire life in service to others.

 

[Right Divider]

During a dark period in my life when I struggled with depression, I found relief through service to others

Acts 20:35 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:35) I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I know we tend to be right-leaning here, which means minimal government service, but are there any services our government is already providing that could be expanded, or are there any new services our government could offer citizens who struggle with this horrible problem?

The cost of anything like this would just be chalked up to the cost of our freedom, like our military spending, and spending to keep our government's branches running.

It seems like it would be a tiny cost, compared to say, offering a million USD to buyback everybody's guns. Just to stop suicide.

There's got to be a more rational way to help people with suicidality than to do what England and Australia did, and what basically every other stable democracy do now wrt gun rights. The problem, or the single biggest cause of the problem of gun violence, is suicidality, not guns.

Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined and England, Australia etc never had a 'gun culture' to start with as that's pretty much a USA only thing. It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.

 

[marke]

Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined and England, Australia etc never had a 'gun culture' to start with as that's pretty much a USA only thing. It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.

Lefty elitists have no respect for the Americans who enjoy hunting, fishing, and driving gas-guzzling vehicles.

 

[Idolater]

Gun rights and suicidality are two separate things, not intertwined

America has established otherwise. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. And as OP failed to mention clearly, many of the gun deaths from mass shootings are also, collateral damage from suicides.

It's irrational to state that countries that don't have a gun culture try to help people prone to depression by not allowing them to own guns or some such.

Good thing I never stated or implied that then I guess.

 

[Arthur Brain]

America has established otherwise. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. And as OP failed to mention clearly, many of the gun deaths from mass shootings are also, collateral damage from suicides.


Good thing I never stated or implied that then I guess.

Then why bring England, Australia etc into the equation at all in regards to "gun rights"?

 

[Idolater]

Then why bring England, Australia etc into the equation at all in regards to "gun rights"?

You folks are infamous around here for confiscating guns in mass quantities. In case you didn't know that.

 

[ok doser]

You folks are infamous around here for confiscating guns in mass quantities. In case you didn't know that.

Seems to me that Paul Revere was involved in one of those early incidents

 

[Idolater]

Seems to me that Paul Revere was involved in one of those early incidents

There was an attempt!

 

[marke]

Then why bring England, Australia etc into the equation at all in regards to "gun rights"?

America should learn valuable lessons from other nations who have either voluntarily given up their freedoms or had their freedoms stripped away from them by corrupted tyrants, and Americans should never give up their freedoms.

 

[Idolater]

America should learn valuable lessons from other nations

We should. America is no longer an "experiment."

Our constitution and regime has stood the test of time

By now it's everybody else who's still "experimenting."

who have either voluntarily given up their freedoms or had their freedoms stripped away from them by corrupted tyrants, and Americans should never give up their freedoms.

Yep.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You folks are infamous around here for confiscating guns in mass quantities. In case you didn't know that.

"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing. Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?

 

[Idolater]

"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing.

That's nice. Your regime and Australia's regime is known to have confiscated tons of civilian owned "assault weapons". And then of course followed up with complete bans on any of you all ever being able to own one again.

Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?

It wasn't an equation. Perhaps that's your problem. Maybe read what I wrote again, until you can see, that I was only using you all illustratively, and not at all saying that somehow these un-American gun confiscations and bans were to address suicidality in your countries.

It's just something your regimes did, and continue to do. And I was saying, I don't think that's the answer, for America.

Or for humans, but America is the topic of the thread.

 

[Arthur Brain]

That's nice. Your regime and Australia's regime is known to have confiscated tons of civilian owned "assault weapons". And then of course followed up with complete bans on any of you all ever being able to own one again.

It wasn't an equation. Perhaps that's your problem. Maybe read what I wrote again, until you can see, that I was only using you all illustratively, and not at all saying that somehow these un-American gun confiscations and bans were to address suicidality in your countries.

It's just something your regimes did, and continue to do. And I was saying, I don't think that's the answer, for America.

Or for humans, but America is the topic of the thread.

Pfft, I don't want to own a gun or have anything like the gun culture that's prevalent in America. Most all countries don't and don't want it either. Hopefully there'll be more sensible laws enacted that deny teenagers access to weapons of such destruction as evidenced in the latest massacre along with stringent safeguards to ensure that those owning any firearm have to pass background tests et al also.

If America is the topic of your thread then stop bringing other countries into it and asinine notions that their lack of having guns/gun culture is even remotely connected to suicide.

 

[marke]

"You folks"? I'm not interesting in confiscating yours or anyone else's guns thanks. I am interested in seeing changes to laws that make it more difficult for people like Ramos to get hold of such so easily but that's not the same thing. Again, why bring countries that have no such gun culture into the equation at all?

You clearly want to change American traditions, laws, views, and values about 2nd Amendment rights because you personally do not like Americans enjoying those rights. You are not alone. There are also thousands of American Marxists who despise those traditions, views, values, and rights as you do.

 

[Idolater]

Pfft

What, is your problem Arthur. I've demonstrated I never did nor implied what you're accusing me of. You've got a hair across your ... and I don't know why. You're welcome in the thread, and you're even welcome to continue without justification to attack me, but I honestly do not know what you're on about here.

, I don't want to own a gun or have anything like the gun culture that's prevalent in America.

No one said you did. No one said you should!

Most all countries don't and don't want it either.

Who cares?

Hopefully there'll be more sensible laws enacted that deny teenagers access to weapons of such destruction as evidenced in the latest massacre along with stringent safeguards to ensure that those owning any firearm have to pass background tests et al also.

Well none of that happened.

If America is the topic of your thread then stop bringing other countries into it and asinine notions

I didn't mention, any of those. You did though.

that their lack of having guns/gun culture is even remotely connected to suicide.

Case in point!

 

[Idolater]

Yep, Highland Park mass shooter was suicidal.

What we know about the Highland Park shooting suspect | CNN

Hours after gunfire interrupted the Highland Park, Illinois, July Fourth parade, killing seven people and wounding dozens more, police apprehended the man they believe was responsible.

edition.cnn.com

"In April 2019, local police went to the family home after receiving a report [the mass murderer] had tried to take his own life a week earlier. Officers spoke with him and his parents and were told mental health professionals were handling the matter, [Chris Covelli, spokesperson for the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force] said."

Since he didn't force a "suicide by cop" situation it was unclear if this mass murderer bucked the trend of these mass murderers, but then this news surfaced.

Yep, suicidal.