Sexual Reproduction - Another Problem For Evolution.

bob b

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Did you know that evolutionists have no credible explanation for sexual reproduction, because it seems to be at odds with the "random mutations plus natural selection" mechanism.

But don't take my word for it. Even the arch evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that losing half the genes every generation would appear to be detrimental to perserving any "beneficial" mutations.
 

ItIsWritten

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bob b said:
Did you know that evolutionists have no credible explanation for sexual reproduction, because it seems to be at odds with the "random mutations plus natural selection" mechanism.

But don't take my word for it. Even the arch evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that losing half the genes every generation would appear to be detrimental to perserving any "beneficial" mutations.
Thank you, bob, :up:

So much of nature is "at odds with" the 'random+' senario that this is will eventually be labeled the theory that ate itself.
 

hatsoff

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Quasar1011 said:
Well what if they didn't? What if the male gender evolved first? With what would it reproduce?

I do not know. I don't think scientists have enough information to make such a determination; if they do, I am not aware of it.
 

Apologist

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bob b said:
Did you know that evolutionists have no credible explanation for sexual reproduction, because it seems to be at odds with the "random mutations plus natural selection" mechanism.

But don't take my word for it. Even the arch evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that losing half the genes every generation would appear to be detrimental to perserving any "beneficial" mutations.

You realize that sexual reproduction is in and of itself support for evolution, right? All you have to do is take a look at your crotch. Why do you think you have pubic hair? When a guy and a girl have sex, their crotches rub against each other. That creates friction. Friction hurts. Pubic hair is there to reduce that friction, and therefore that possible discomfort. So, now that we have pubic hair, sex no longer hurts, therefore people desire lots of it. :banana:
 

hatsoff

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Quasar1011 said:
I propose that any species where the male evolved before a female mate evolved... would go extinct!

Possibly. But such a mutation would require previous reproduction. It is possible, for example, that as sexes developed a species continued to reproduce asexually, until mutations had allowed for all the proper hardware.

But in the end it's all speculation. All we know for sure is that the sexes evolved. We have yet to determine just how that happened.
 

Quasar1011

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hatsoff said:
Possibly. But such a mutation would require previous reproduction. It is possible, for example, that as sexes developed a species continued to reproduce asexually, until mutations had allowed for all the proper hardware.

But in the end it's all speculation. All we know for sure is that the sexes evolved. We have yet to determine just how that happened.

Sex is a mutation? :help:
 

snowy

New member
As usual, bob b, is trying so hard to spread his confusion about science:
Did you know that evolutionists have no credible explanation for sexual reproduction
Yeah, we know that no scientific hypothesis supporting macroevolution can ever be deemed credible by you, bob b, we got that. :D

But let me ask this (again): can you stop bickering about what science doesn't know yet and get constructive: do you have a better explanation? More "credible"? Share it. Ah, perhaps the goddidit principle, I guess. The great creation plan that simply formed all these different species ex nihilo - the same marvelous design that brought us such delightful species like.. Bacillus anthrax and Entamoeba histolytica, right? ;)

Back to the topic: I didn't miss the deceiving tactics of your original post, the forced juxtaposition of your understandable anti-evolutionist incredulity, with Dawkins' honest admittance of our limited knowledge on the subject:
But don't take my word for it. Even the arch evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that..

Nice move - rhetorically implying that "even" fierce evolutionists like Dawkins share your own confused incredulity when it comes to hypothesizing about how sexual reproduction may fit the evolutionary model.

Only that is simply not true: Dawkins may have stated what you wrote but otherwise he surely left plenty of room for scientific (and yes, credible) hypothesizing on the subject. Would you really like to discuss about it? (I suppose not, as you're surely not interested in "credible" explanations). If you at least read (and could follow) Dawkins' "Selfish gene" classic you may find even in there some reasonable hypotheses about how sexual differentiation may have come into play through the evolutionary progress (for example, have a read at chapter 9, "Battle of the sexes").

True, evolutionism cannot tell us for sure how that had happened. It's a complex, multi-stage process. We should probably start with assessing the evolutionary benefits of meiotic division, then move on to explore how that was even further beneficial by sexual differentiation, etc.

Since evolutionary explanation will never be credible for you, again, let's get back to your alternative explanation. I would love to discuss with you the details of how sexual reproduction came into the world according to your good book - I had some good fun reading those primitive misogynistic passages in Genesis 2-3, etc. and it was even funnier trying to extrapolate that "wisdom" to other life forms. For example, one would clearly read in your bible how that tribal patriarchal god came up with the sweet idea of creating the female counterpart mostly as a servant ("helper"?) for the male. Excellent plan. Though you may have some difficulty trying to apply the same paradigm to various animal species -- oops, look, that explanation is kind of messed up in the case of, say, the Praying Mantis bug (Mantis religiosa), where the big female sometimes decides to bite the male's head off as part of the mating ritual mechanics (?!). Not much of a "helper" for that male, is it? So please do something constructive for once and give us your biblical insights about how and why sexual reproduction appeared in say, the animal kingdom. Getting back to plants would probably be even harder, but give it a try if you feel like. And guess what: it's much easier to think of this in terms of evolutionary benefits -- for example, observing that sexuate reproduction highly encourages gene recombination and so on.
 

bob b

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snowy said:
As usual, bob b, is trying so hard to spread his confusion about science: Yeah, we know that no scientific hypothesis supporting macroevolution can ever be deemed credible by you, bob b, we got that. :D

I'm waiting, but not holding my breath.

But let me ask this (again): can you stop bickering about what science doesn't know yet and get constructive: do you have a better explanation? More "credible"?

I believe that everything that happened after creation has been according to the laws of the universe which work according to the design of God. I also believe that these laws could not have come into existence by themselves, nor could the material universe either.

Share it. Ah, perhaps the goddidit principle, I guess. The great creation plan that simply formed all these different species ex nihilo - the same marvelous design that brought us such delightful species like.. Bacillus anthrax and Entamoeba histolytica, right? ;)

"Species" is a human invented term which tries to categorize lifeforms. If you knew more about biology you would realize that most bacteria are not only harmless but actually many are required for the routine operation of other lifeforms. However, since the beginning a harmful process has been taking place, mutation, which sometimes transforms harmless or useful bacteria into harmful forms. This is called gradual deterioration of the creation and may be related to "The Fall".

Back to the topic: I didn't miss the deceiving tactics of your original post, the forced juxtaposition of your understandable anti-evolutionist incredulity, with Dawkins' honest admittance of our limited knowledge on the subject:

I am glad you enjoyed it. ;)

Nice move - rhetorically implying that "even" fierce evolutionists like Dawkins share your own confused incredulity when it comes to hypothesizing about how sexual reproduction may fit the evolutionary model.

He said it, I didn't.

Only that is simply not true: Dawkins may have stated what you wrote but otherwise he surely left plenty of room for scientific (and yes, credible) hypothesizing on the subject.

Yes, he is long on hypothesizing, but unfortunately short on science.

Would you really like to discuss about it? (I suppose not, as you're surely not interested in "credible" explanations). If you at least read (and could follow) Dawkins' "Selfish gene" classic you may find even in there some reasonable hypotheses about how sexual differentiation may have come into play through the evolutionary progress (for example, have a read at chapter 9, "Battle of the sexes").

I have books by Dawkins. Did you know that he "borrowed" the selfish gene idea from John Maynard Smith's book, "The Theory of Evolution"? Smith later admitted that his suggestion was sort of a joke, yet Dawkins never seemed to get the humor, to this day.

True, evolutionism cannot tell us for sure how that had happened. It's a complex, multi-stage process. We should probably start with assessing the evolutionary benefits of meiotic division, then move on to explore how that was even further beneficial by sexual differentiation, etc.

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that lifeforms work because of the proteins they produce, and that there are vast chasms of useless proteins between the types produced by different lifeforms such as birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. Prior to this finding it had been assumed that there were no such chasms between the various "types".

Since evolutionary explanation will never be credible for you, again, let's get back to your alternative explanation. I would love to discuss with you the details of how sexual reproduction came into the world according to your good book - I had some good fun reading those primitive misogynistic passages in Genesis 2-3, etc. and it was even funnier trying to extrapolate that "wisdom" to other life forms. For example, one would clearly read in your bible how that tribal patriarchal god came up with the sweet idea of creating the female counterpart mostly as a servant ("helper"?) for the male. Excellent plan. Though you may have some difficulty trying to apply the same paradigm to various animal species -- oops, look, that explanation is kind of messed up in the case of, say, the Praying Mantis bug (Mantis religiosa), where the big female sometimes decides to bite the male's head off as part of the mating ritual mechanics (?!). Not much of a "helper" for that male, is it? So please do something constructive for once and give us your biblical insights about how and why sexual reproduction appeared in say, the animal kingdom. Getting back to plants would probably be even harder, but give it a try if you feel like. And guess what: it's much easier to think of this in terms of evolutionary benefits -- for example, observing that sexuate reproduction highly encourages gene recombination and so on.

As I have said many times, when the scientific arguments are going badly for them, the evolutionists typically try to switch the topic to the Bible. That is fine with me, but please use a different thread. This one is for science.
 

Johnny

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However, since the beginning a harmful process has been taking place, mutation, which sometimes transforms harmless or useful bacteria into harmful forms.
That's funny bob. But before I show you just how "uphill" some bacteria would have had to gone to go from harmless to harmful, I'll let you decide whether or not you want to take it this route. It's easier to just say they were created that way.
 

hatsoff

New member
bob b said:
As I have said many times, when the scientific arguments are going badly for them, the evolutionists typically try to switch the topic to the Bible. That is fine with me, but please use a different thread. This one is for science.

There's nothing wrong with the science. The OP's implication--at least as I understand it--is that evolution never happened, and that sexual reproduction is just another example of an evolutionary impossibility. The problem with this implication is that the alternative explanation is the actual impossibility. Evolution is merely unexplained in its entirety. It is not, according to the best human understanding, impossible by any means. It is, in fact, the only logical theory thus far developed for how life has developed on earth. Discussing the Bible is very much on-topic in lieu of all that.
 
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