School attacks couldnt happen without guns? Bombs and other means of mass attacks

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
This thread was made to examine this conversation in more detail:

Nutters with knives can't do it to as many people with so little effort.

Nutters with bombs are even more effortless and kill loads more people at once than guns.

Do you think they care that bomb-making is illegal?

Cars and planes work well for that end also, should we ban them?

Excellent response! And remember the Boston Marathon? A couple of pressure cookers loaded with nails, nuts and bolts did heinous damage to a large number of people.

yes, anyone intent on killing several people would still easily be able to accomplish that and then some without a gun, and then loads of people would no longer be able to defend themselves. (way more by far, people have successfully defended themselves with guns, than are harmed by them)

I took an hour to research this, and see just how often mass attacks have occured and by what means other than firearms.


Quick list of some more well known bombings and mass attacks in the US (planes heading to the us with bombs on them not included, only those within the US). ( The following by far not a comprehensive or complete list)

You will also see 2 schools there.

Spoiler
1886 - Bomb thrown during labor rally at Haymarket Square kills 7

1905 - Frank Steunenberg, former Idaho governor, killed by bomb

1910 - The Los Angeles Times bombing by union activists kills 21 and injures some 100.

1916: The Preparedness Day Bombing killed ten people and injured 40 in San Francisco.

1917: A bomb exploded in a Milwaukee police station, killing nine officers and a civilian

1919: Atlanta Ga - mail bomb sent to home of senator Thomas Hardwick explodes, injuring a housekeeper and the senator's wife

1919:Anarchist bombings kill a night watchman and a terrorist; additional bombings occurred in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Paterson, NJ, Cleveland, OH, and two in Pittsburgh, PA

1919: Boston, Massachusetts - Anarchist bombing at the home of a state representative injured one child; a second bombing at the house of a judge

1920 - New York City, New York - Bomb in horse-drawn wagon exploded near Morgan bank in lower Manhattan

1920 - The Wall Street bombing kill 28 and seriously injures 143. *truck detonated with explosives*

1927 - School bombing in Bath, Michigan - explosion of bomb placed in school, followed by suicide bombing

1933 - United Airlines -A Boeing 247 airliner flying from Cleveland to Chicago exploded in mid-air over Chesterton, Indiana. Ten people (7 passengers, 3 crew) were killed in the crash, and the cause was determined to be a nitroglycerin bomb

1940 - New York City, New York - bomb explodes at British Pavilion at the World's Fair, killing 2 police officers and injuring 2

1941 - Pearl Harbor, bombs, and planes used as bombs- 2,403 Americans were killed and 1,178 others were wounded

1951 - NAACP state director Harry Moore and his wife killed in bombing of their house

1954 -1970 Bomb explodes in seat at Radio City Music Hall during a movie showing and lots of other places in New york city - George P. Metesky (November 2, 1903 – May 23, 1994), better known as the Mad Bomber, terrorized New York City for 16 years in the 1940s and 1950s with explosives that he planted in theaters, terminals, libraries, and offices. Bombs were left in phone booths, storage lockers, and restrooms in public buildings, including Grand Central Terminal, Pennsylvania Station, Radio City Music Hall, the New York Public Library, the Port Authority Bus Terminal and the RCA Building, as well as in the New York City Subway. Metesky also bombed movie theaters, where he cut into seat upholstery and slipped his explosive devices inside. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Metesky

1955 - United Air Lines DC-8 (flight 629) exploded and crashed near Longmont, CO, destroyed by bomb planted by John Graham in insurance plot to kill his mother, a passenger - 39 passengers and five crew members on board were killed in the explosion and crash.

1957 - Western Air Lines Flight 39
Western 39 was a multi-stage flight on a route from Minneapolis to Salt Lake City to Cedar City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles. A passenger named Saul Binstock flew from Burbank, California, to Las Vegas and never left the airport terminal prior to boarding the Western Air Lines flight back to Los Angeles. The Convair CV-240 had just taken off carrying 16 people (13 passengers, 3 crew) when Binstock locked himself in the aft lavatory and set off a dynamite bomb. Though he was killed and the blast created a 6 x 7 ft (1.8 x 2.1 m) hole in the fuselage, the plane managed to land safely with no further injuries.

1959 - Suicide bombing at Poe elementary school in Houston - Six people, including the perpetrator and his own son, were killed.

1960 - Boliva, North Carolina - National Airlines flight bombed in insurance plot

1962 - Continental Airlines Flight 11
dynamite bomb hidden in a towel container under the washbasin in the right rear lavatory detonated. The blast caused the plane's tail to break away and the aircraft went out of control, crashing near Unionville, Missouri, and taking the lives of 45 people (37 passengers, 8 crew)

1963 - 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, Alabama, committed by the Ku Klux Klan. Four African-American girls are killed on Sunday morning.

1967 -An American Airlines Boeing 727 had departed Chicago when a small explosion occurred one hour and 42 minutes after takeoff. The blast was caused by a crude homemade bomb located in the aft baggage hold. None of the 78 passengers and crew were injured and the plane landed safely.

1968 - Continental Airlines Boeing 707 carrying 70 people was preparing to land at Denver when an explosion occurred in one of the lavatories. Though the blast started a small fire, the pilots were able to make an emergency landing with no injuries. A passenger seen leaving the lavatory just before the explosion was arrested by the FBI.

1970 - The first mass aircraft hijackings occurred in 1970, the so-called Dawson's Field hijackings, when the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine seized control of two American planes and one Swiss airliner, all bound from Europe to the United States, to punish the United States for supporting Israel. The Pan Am, TWA and Swissair planes were blown up on the ground in Jordan and Egypt.

1975 - The Puerto Rican nationalist FALN bombs Fraunces Tavern in New York City on January 24, killing four and injuring more than 50.

1976 -An unoccupied Eastern Airlines L-188 Electra parked at Boston Logan Airport was destroyed by a bomb planted in the landing gear compartment. No one was injured.

1978-1995 - Three people die and 23 others are wounded after a string of mail bombings carried out by Ted Kaczynski

1979 - American Airlines Flight 444
American 444 was a Boeing 727 carrying 78 people (72 passengers, 6 crew) and headed from Chicago to Washington DC. Thirty minutes into flight, a mail bomb hidden in a wooden box in the cargo hold ignited. The device produced large amounts of smoke but failed to detonate, though investigators found only a faulty timer prevented the bomb from obliterating the plane. The pilot made a successful emergency landing at Washington-Dulles but several passengers had to be treated for smoke inhalation. The bomb was built by Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber.

1980 - United Airlines
Passengers were disembarking a Boeing 727 in Sacramento, California, when a small cardboard box in the cargo hold detonated. The explosion injured two cargo handlers but none of the 44 passengers and crew were harmed.

1983 - November 7 - The Armed Resistance Unit, a militant leftist group, bombs the U.S. Capitol in response to the U.S. invasion of Grenada.

1985 - American Airlines
A bomb hidden in a vinyl tote bag exploded aboard a Boeing 727. The blast occurred in the forward baggage hold while being unloaded and there were no fatalities.

1993 - February 26 - World Trade Center bombing, 6 killed, 1,042 injured.

1995 - April 19 - Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, over 800 injured.

1996 - July 27 - Centennial Olympic Park bombing: during the Atlanta Olympics: 1 killed 111 injured.

2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks, 2,997 killed by Islamic fundamentalists using planes as bombs

2010 - Cargo Bombing Attempt
On 29 October 2010, officials discovered two packages addressed to Jewish organizations in Chicago that contained explosive material. The sophisticated bombs contained approximately one pound of the explosive PETN and were found aboard cargo planes, although each had also been carried on passenger flights before their discovery. The first was found on a UPS plane in the United Kingdom while the second was discovered aboard a FedEx aircraft at Dubai. Each bomb was packaged within a printer toner cartridge and "the explosives discovered were of a sophisticated nature whereby they could not be detected by X-ray screening or trained sniffer dogs." The devices were to be triggered by cell phone alarms set to detonate while the planes were estimated to be over the Atlantic Ocean. Investigators believe the bombs were intended to destroy planes in flight, although it is unclear whether the perpetrators could have known whether they would be carried aboard passenger or freight aircraft. Both packages originated in Yemen and the organization al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is believed responsible.

2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, killing three and wounding at least 264.

Quick facts all taken from various wikipedia articles as well as http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0283.shtml and
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/u-s-terrorist-attacks-fast-facts/



By far this is not a comprehensive list, just those i could scrape up in the last hour.

This doesn't include all the car bombs, pipe bombs, mail bombs and loads of others and where cars and trucks are used to mow down numbers of people or used to crash into buildings to harm people.

This would make that quick tons longer if i kept going and adding to it. You can see a couple schools are included in the bombings as well and if you notice before guns were widely available, bombings happened all the time instead. Mass murders and attacks have ALWAYS happened. The only thing that has changed is the means.

At any rate, i think it makes the overall point - if someone is hell bent on mass murder, they will find a way do it, even if there were no guns at all, and then loads more would potentially be killed because they would not have the means to defend themselves.

*Fact, more guns save lives each year than take them*
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
the attack in oregon was stopped by what?

At 10:44 a.m., six minutes after the first 9-1-1 call was received, two Roseburg Police Department officers and one Oregon State Police trooper arrived at the scene. At 10:46 a.m., officials said Harper-Mercer engaged the officers in a gun battle that lasted for two minutes, after which he killed himself.[14][15] None of the officers were injured.[3][4]

oh yeah - good guys with guns


remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away
 

alwight

New member
I presume that the OP does not object to there being bomb controls, even if sometimes futile?
 

PureX

Well-known member
Rape and murder will always happen, too. But that doesn't mean we should not try to prevent them from happening.
 

alwight

New member
how do you plan to control a gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches?
I don't know about the US but in the UK a suspicious person storing or carrying suspicious material can be held to account. A suspicious person keeping or carrying a gun can be arrested because of gun controls, but Americans nevertheless apparently feel that they must all have the right to keep and bear guns whatever the cost in innocent lives. :rolleyes:
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
again, how to you plan to control a gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches?
 

alwight

New member
again, how to you plan to control a gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches?
Well, the gasoline in my car doesn't actually need controlling. It all rather depends on circumstances and intent but if Americans all insisted on the right to carry it around wherever they go then what chance would the cops have of stopping a gasoline nutter?
 

Greg Jennings

New member
again, how to you plan to control a gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches?

How do you sneak a gallon of gasoline into a school? And if you did how does that make a bomb? A bomb requires an explosion. Gasoline and matches will light stuff on fire easily but it's not causing explosive damage. To be more clear: it's not sending people or objects flying when you light it up
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
How do you sneak a gallon of gasoline into a school?

camelbak

or, in red bull bottles

And if you did how does that make a bomb?

pour it out in a secluded location - a sealed room and let it evaporate

ignite it and get the explosive force of 14 sticks of dynamite


do it on the ground floor in an interior room and you'll take down a four story building
 

Greg Jennings

New member
google is your friend




doesn't have to be airtight, just no windows, closed doors

gotta contain the force while it builds

I did some quick research and you're somewhat right. You'd have to evaporate enough gasoline into a closed off room to have that evaporated gasoline account for at least 1.4% of the air molecules in the room. Unless it was a broom closet then you're going to need a lot more than a gallon to cause an explosion
 
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Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
I don't know about the US but in the UK a suspicious person storing or carrying suspicious material can be held to account. A suspicious person keeping or carrying a gun can be arrested because of gun controls, but Americans nevertheless apparently feel that they must all have the right to keep and bear guns whatever the cost in innocent lives. :rolleyes:

Guns save way more lives and stop more crimes in the US than people are harmed by them.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I did some quick research and you're somewhat right. You'd have to evaporate enough gasoline into a closed off room to have that evaporated gasoline account for at least 1.4% of the air molecules in the room. Unless it was a broom closet then you're going to need a lot more than a gallon to cause an explosion

He wasn't pointing out the details of how to do it, he was pointing out that everyday chemicals can be far more explosive & destructive than any person with a gun. Furthermore, if a person is bent on killing they will find a way with a gun or not. Your attempting to pick fly feces from the pepper with your argument...face it! ok doser is right, you are wrong.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
You completely missed the point. But it's not worth bothering to explain it further.

You miss the point, they prevent the things you listed, all the time (rape and murder). You may not like that, but its a fact, see the link at the bottom of the op post for the actual numbers.
 
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