ROMANS 2:1 WILL THE GOOD BE SAVED?

[DougE]

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Paul is saying that the man who judges others for unrighteousness and thinks himself not as bad as others will not be excused and escape judgment because nonetheless, he is a sinner.

2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

This man is storing up wrath for himself.

2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

God will judge each person according to their own deeds.

2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

God will demand continual good, continuance reflects perfection. Well doing is according to God's standard of righteousness.

2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The verses above are describing the righteous judgment of God, how God will judge according to our deeds. I see nothing in these verses to think we can be saved by doing good, nor that upon salvation these verses imply we have to secure and keep our salvation by doing good. Romans 2:5 gives the context for these verses by saying that wrath is being stored up for the day of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God. We do not have to work for our salvation ; God justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5).

 

[Bradley D]

I do not believe one can work their way into heaven. Although God expects us to live godly lives.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Paul is saying that the man who judges others for unrighteousness and thinks himself not as bad as others will not be excused and escape judgment because nonetheless, he is a sinner.

2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

This man is storing up wrath for himself.

2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

God will judge each person according to their own deeds.

2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

God will demand continual good, continuance reflects perfection. Well doing is according to God's standard of righteousness.

2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

The verses above are describing the righteous judgment of God, how God will judge according to our deeds. I see nothing in these verses to think we can be saved by doing good, nor that upon salvation these verses imply we have to secure and keep our salvation by doing good. Romans 2:5 gives the context for these verses by saying that wrath is being stored up for the day of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God. We do not have to work for our salvation ; God justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5).

Obeying Jesus is how we eat.

We have to eat every day.

We have to obey every day.

 

[God's Truth]

I do not believe one can work their way into heaven. Although God expects us to live godly lives.

So are you saying we don't have to obey to stay saved?

 

[Bradley D]

So are you saying we don't have to obey to stay saved?

No. There are those that believe they get points for what they believe are good works. One does not add up points to get into heaven Good works are expected if one is Christian.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).

 

[God's Truth]

No. There are those that believe they get points for what they believe are good works. One does not add up points to get into heaven Good works are expected if one is Christian.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).

No such thing as getting saved and staying saved without obeying.

 

[God's Truth]

There are people here who are afraid to say we have to obey to get saved and to stay saved.

They give mixed messages and they contradict themselves.

It is not wrong to obey Jesus.

We have to obey.

What one does not obey, it is sin.

Grace is not that we no longer have to obey God.

The gift is not that we didn't have to qualify for it.

 

[God's Truth]

Grace is that we don't have to clean ourselves just to go to the temple to be near God's Spirit.

Grace is that by our faith in Jesus' blood we are cleaned and become the temple.

 

[God's Truth]

From the scriptures, I see that the gift, the reward, the inheritance, the treasure, the crown, the promise…it is all eternal life in the kingdom of God.

We only get the gift, the promised Holy Spirit, who cleans us and who reconciles us to God, and who qualifies us to be a child of GOD and who seated us with the Father in heaven, and gives us the crown, the treasure, the inheritance, we only get that IF WE OBEY JESUS.

 

[Aimiel]

You're trying to say that you have to DO works to keep or to get your salvation. Untrue. We're saved by grace, through faith. Those who are saved are saved. They don't have to do anything beyond believing in Christ to be saved. Now I have to add: there are degrees of reward just as there are degrees of punishment. We'll be judged by our works, every one of us; otherwise Paul would never have lamented doing so little with what He had been given (grace). We'll determine how close with God our relationship with Him is by how close we draw to Him in this life. If we are merely saved and do nothing to please God or make any attempt to approach closer to Him: we'll live forever on the outskirts of Heaven. If we draw close to Him: He'll draw close to us. Working to 'keep' salvation makes Christ's Blood of none effect.

 

[God's Truth]

You're trying to say that you have to DO works to keep or to get your salvation. Untrue.

Of course we have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved and to stay saved.

We have to keep being humble.

James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."


We have to keep forgiving others.


...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15


We have to not sin against others.

Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.


We have to work out our salvation(Philippians 2:12), and train ourselves to know good and bad (Hebrews 5:14).

We're saved by grace, through faith.

That just means we don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, and the other purification works.

His blood purifies us. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Those who are saved are saved.

Those who are saved have to live to please Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."


Did you read that? It completely destroys your theory.

They don't have to do anything beyond believing in Christ to be saved.

Faith alone is dead and can't save anyone.


James 2:14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

Now I have to add: there are degrees of reward just as there are degrees of punishment.

The only reward is eternal life.

Colossians 3:24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

We'll be judged by our works, every one of us; otherwise Paul would never have lamented doing so little with what He had been given (grace). We'll determine how close with God our relationship with Him is by how close we draw to Him in this life.

God lives in those who get His teachings and obeys them.


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

If we are merely saved and do nothing to please God or make any attempt to approach closer to Him: we'll live forever on the outskirts of Heaven. If we draw close to Him: He'll draw close to us. Working to 'keep' salvation makes Christ's Blood of none effect.

God's work is light, easy, and not burdensome.

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

 

[DougE]

Of course we have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved and to stay saved.

We have to keep being humble.

James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."


We have to keep forgiving others.


...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15


We have to not sin against others.

Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.


We have to work out our salvation(Philippians 2:12), and train ourselves to know good and bad (Hebrews 5:14).


That just means we don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, and the other purification works.

His blood purifies us. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Those who are saved have to live to please Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."


Did you read that? It completely destroys your theory.



Faith alone is dead and can't save anyone.


James 2:14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?


The only reward is eternal life.

Colossians 3:24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.


God lives in those who get His teachings and obeys them.


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.


God's work is light, easy, and not burdensome.

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

"That just means we don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, and the other purification works."

I do not know of any scripture to substantiate this statement

 

[God's Truth]

"That just means we don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, and the other purification works."

I do not know of any scripture to substantiate this statement

You don't know because you aren't reading and considering carefully enough what I am posting.

Circumcision USED to be the SIGN that one did all the PURIFICATION WORKS OF THE LAW.

Don't you understand that the people had to PURIFY/WASH themselves?

Jesus cleans us now by our faith in his blood washing us of the sins we repent of doing.

No more of THOSE WORKS.

That means we no longer have to get circumcised in the flesh and give animal sacrifices

It does not mean we no longer have to obey anything that Jesus says to do.

You say you don't know of any scripture to substantiate it.

You need to study this more:

His blood purifies us. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

 

[Bradley D]

True. Geting saved requires repentance, amending ones life (change), and continuing to live a godly life through Christ/Holy Spirit.

 

[The Barbarian]

I do not believe one can work their way into heaven. Although God expects us to live godly lives.

Jesus does not define justification by works as "working your way into heaven." It's just the way He will decide who goes with Him and who goes with the devil.

And yes, God says you are justified by faith and works.

 

[Aimiel]

Of course we have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved and to stay saved.

I don't buy that.

We have to keep being humble.

There's no verse that says if we aren't 'humble enough' we'll lose our salvation. Only in your imagination.

James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

He is The Judge, not you; He alone decides who or what is good and pleasing to Him. He gives grace to those He chooses, not you.

We have to keep forgiving others.

...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15

Again, this is something that God decides, not you. He is The One Who softens men's hearts. He does so by walking with them and talking with them and telling them about His Word and teaching them to walk in It.

The only reward is eternal life.

God can reveal what rewards await you, with His Spirit. If you draw close to Him, He'll draw close to you and reveal what eye hath not seen, ear hath not heard and what hath not entered into your heart. There ARE degrees of reward.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

He does, indeed; but He DOESN'T require 'works' in order to be saved or to keep one's salvation. He doesn't give gifts and then take them back. Your works-based salvation is hooey. God gives us salvation, un-conditionally. I don't buy once-saved-always-saved, but I do know that we don't have to 'work' to keep our salvation.

 

[Bradley D]

Jesus does not define justification by works as "working your way into heaven." It's just the way He will decide who goes with Him and who goes with the devil.

And yes, God says you are justified by faith and works.

I believe faith will produce good works.

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love" (2 Peter 1:5-7).

 

[DougE]

You don't know because you aren't reading and considering carefully enough what I am posting.

Circumcision USED to be the SIGN that one did all the PURIFICATION WORKS OF THE LAW.

Don't you understand that the people had to PURIFY/WASH themselves?

Jesus cleans us now by our faith in his blood washing us of the sins we repent of doing.

No more of THOSE WORKS.

That means we no longer have to get circumcised in the flesh and give animal sacrifices

It does not mean we no longer have to obey anything that Jesus says to do.

You say you don't know of any scripture to substantiate it.

You need to study this more:

His blood purifies us. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Circumcision was not a sign of purification works of the law

 

[thborn]

For myself, at least, I don't worry so much about how I am saved or how the blood of Christ accomplishes salvation. I have believed, and I know what I must continue to believe and (hopefully) something of what I must do. I can only in good conscience recommend faith and works (both to the fullest, especially faith leading to works) but I understand that there are many who are trying to come to terms with scripture and have prayed on this (as we all should) and believe something at least somewhat different.

 

[Aimiel]

In Romans 2 the apostle is merely expounding the Law of Reciprocity, meaning whatever a man sows: that shall he also reap...

...but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness: indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile

God is indignant, angry and the person who obeys un-righteousness will reap tribulation and anguish in his life; he may even experience judgment should he die un-saved. I don't see 'works-based' salvation described anywhere in the text, or indeed in all of The Holy Scriptures.


Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost