Anto9us
New member
I once started a thread of this title on TWO DIFFERENT BOARDS AT THE SAME TIME -- and got many interesting responses
But this one focuses more on PETER - we will get to Paul LATER -- just like what happens in the Bible in the book of Acts -- Paul comes much later than Peter.
Anyway -- PETER is viewed differently by Orthodox and Protestant brethren/cistern than he is by Catholic brethren/cistern -- I think that is obvious.
Anyway - here goes:
Let's look at the passages concerning Peter's GREAT CONFESSION in all 3 of the Synoptics - first Mark:
-------
Mar 8:27
And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do
men say that I am?
Mar 8:28
And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
Mar 8:29
And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mar 8:30
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Mar 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes,
and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mar 8:32
And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mar 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the
things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
----------
And now Matthew:
Mat 16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which
is in heaven.
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Mat 16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God,
but those that be of men.
---------
And now Luke:
Luk 9:18
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
Luk 9:19
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk 9:20
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
Luk 9:21
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luk 9:22
Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the
third day.
-----
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4073&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4074&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=16&t=KJV#s=t_conc_945018
Okay - go look at these
PETROS is a masculine proper noun - Peter - i.e. "Thou art Peter/Petros/rock"
but the Greek word for ROCK is then referred to IN A DIFFERENT FORM: PETRA
petra is a
feminine noun
designated later -- IT is what is designated that Christ will build his church upon!!
i AM ONE OF THOSE WHO INTERPRET THAT THE 'BEDROCK' that Christ will "build His church upon"
is the FAITH -- the insight above and beyond what 'flesh and blood' can reveal to a person --
the bedrock of FAITH that can make a person realize that Christ is the Son of the Living God
THAT is the "petra" (feminine noun) UPON WHICH Christ would build His church
When things are given in all 3 synoptic gospels -- it is wise to look at them ALL in parallel
Only Matthew contains anything which smacks of a "Peter is the special one" idea
Peter is A ROCK - but not THE ROCK UPON Christ will build
(unless you want to accept that a feminine noun in Greek applies specifically to Peter the man)
Matthew contains the reference to Peter as "KeyHolder"; Luke and Mark do not
And Matthew, like Mark, contains the "rebuke of Jesus" which gets Peter the reply from Jesus that
ACTUALLY ADDRESSES PETER AS SATAN!
Well, Peter was GREAT -- Peter was HUMAN - Peter is the only one besides Jesus himelf who ACTUALLY WALKED ON WATER!!
HE WAS doing it FOR A WHILE -- TIL HE GOT DISTURBED BY HOW STRONG THE WIND WAS - then he started to sink
Peter is surely one of our greatest HEROES of the Faith.
But to say he is designated "leader on earth" of The Church -- and sittin there at the Pearly Gates with authority to let one person in and
turn another away -- I do not feel that is justified by the Bible.
It is not HERESY for Catholic brethren to believe such -- it is a "non-essential" of the Faith -- it is simply a matter
NEVER ACCEPTED BY ALL CHRISTIANS
that Peter and a formal list of his successors should be the "Vicar of Christ on earth".
Orthodox with a capital "O" never bought into that - Protestants never bought into it - Copts didn't either, as far as I know.
But this one focuses more on PETER - we will get to Paul LATER -- just like what happens in the Bible in the book of Acts -- Paul comes much later than Peter.
Anyway -- PETER is viewed differently by Orthodox and Protestant brethren/cistern than he is by Catholic brethren/cistern -- I think that is obvious.
Anyway - here goes:
Let's look at the passages concerning Peter's GREAT CONFESSION in all 3 of the Synoptics - first Mark:
-------
Mar 8:27
And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do
men say that I am?
Mar 8:28
And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
Mar 8:29
And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mar 8:30
And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Mar 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes,
and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mar 8:32
And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mar 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the
things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
----------
And now Matthew:
Mat 16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which
is in heaven.
Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 16:20
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Mat 16:21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God,
but those that be of men.
---------
And now Luke:
Luk 9:18
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
Luk 9:19
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk 9:20
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
Luk 9:21
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luk 9:22
Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the
third day.
-----
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4073&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4074&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=16&t=KJV#s=t_conc_945018
Okay - go look at these
PETROS is a masculine proper noun - Peter - i.e. "Thou art Peter/Petros/rock"
but the Greek word for ROCK is then referred to IN A DIFFERENT FORM: PETRA
petra is a
feminine noun
designated later -- IT is what is designated that Christ will build his church upon!!
i AM ONE OF THOSE WHO INTERPRET THAT THE 'BEDROCK' that Christ will "build His church upon"
is the FAITH -- the insight above and beyond what 'flesh and blood' can reveal to a person --
the bedrock of FAITH that can make a person realize that Christ is the Son of the Living God
THAT is the "petra" (feminine noun) UPON WHICH Christ would build His church
When things are given in all 3 synoptic gospels -- it is wise to look at them ALL in parallel
Only Matthew contains anything which smacks of a "Peter is the special one" idea
Peter is A ROCK - but not THE ROCK UPON Christ will build
(unless you want to accept that a feminine noun in Greek applies specifically to Peter the man)
Matthew contains the reference to Peter as "KeyHolder"; Luke and Mark do not
And Matthew, like Mark, contains the "rebuke of Jesus" which gets Peter the reply from Jesus that
ACTUALLY ADDRESSES PETER AS SATAN!
Well, Peter was GREAT -- Peter was HUMAN - Peter is the only one besides Jesus himelf who ACTUALLY WALKED ON WATER!!
HE WAS doing it FOR A WHILE -- TIL HE GOT DISTURBED BY HOW STRONG THE WIND WAS - then he started to sink
Peter is surely one of our greatest HEROES of the Faith.
But to say he is designated "leader on earth" of The Church -- and sittin there at the Pearly Gates with authority to let one person in and
turn another away -- I do not feel that is justified by the Bible.
It is not HERESY for Catholic brethren to believe such -- it is a "non-essential" of the Faith -- it is simply a matter
NEVER ACCEPTED BY ALL CHRISTIANS
that Peter and a formal list of his successors should be the "Vicar of Christ on earth".
Orthodox with a capital "O" never bought into that - Protestants never bought into it - Copts didn't either, as far as I know.