Resource on public schools and religion

[Jose Fly]

Since this comes up here so often, it may be helpful to establish a few basic facts. This government website is particularly helpful...

Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools

Some key excerpts...

The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the First Amendment requires public school officials to be neutral in their treatment of religion, showing neither favoritism toward nor hostility against religious expression such as prayer. [ 2 ] Accordingly, the First Amendment forbids religious activity that is sponsored by the government but protects religious activity that is initiated by private individuals, and the line between government-sponsored and privately initiated religious expression is vital to a proper understanding of the First Amendment's scope.

So the general rule of thumb is, school officials are not allowed to show favoritism on religious issues, but students are free to practice their religion and express their views.

The Supreme Court's decisions over the past forty years set forth principles that distinguish impermissible governmental religious speech from the constitutionally protected private religious speech of students. For example, teachers and other public school officials may not lead their classes in prayer, devotional readings from the Bible, or other religious activities. [ 4 ] Nor may school officials attempt to persuade or compel students to participate in prayer or other religious activities. [ 5 ] Such conduct is "attributable to the State" and thus violates the Establishment Clause. [ 6 ]

Similarly, public school officials may not themselves decide that prayer should be included in school-sponsored events. In Lee v. Weisman [ 7 ], for example, the Supreme Court held that public school officials violated the Constitution in inviting a member of the clergy to deliver a prayer at a graduation ceremony. Nor may school officials grant religious speakers preferential access to public audiences, or otherwise select public speakers on a basis that favors religious speech. In Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe [ 8 ], for example, the Court invalidated a school's football game speaker policy on the ground that it was designed by school officials to result in pregame prayer, thus favoring religious expression over secular expression.

More detail on what school officials cannot do. At the link, the next paragraph is about students' rights to religious expression.

And more regarding school officials...

When acting in their official capacities as representatives of the state, teachers, school administrators, and other school employees are prohibited by the Establishment Clause from encouraging or discouraging prayer, and from actively participating in such activity with students.

So yes, when on the clock school officials are "representatives of the state" and thus must remain neutral on religious issues. But does that mean the officials can't do anything? No.

Teachers may, however, take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities. Before school or during lunch, for example, teachers may meet with other teachers for prayer or Bible study to the same extent that they may engage in other conversation or nonreligious activities.

IOW, teachers, coaches, and other school officials are free to pray and study the Bible on their own time.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Since this comes up here so often, it may be helpful to establish a few basic facts. This government website is particularly helpful...

And I'll ask you again like I did it your previous Christian bashing thread:

What legislative body (i.e. the US Congress or State Legislatures) passed a law stating that prayer couldn't be done on public school grounds?

Speaking of activist rulings by SCOTUS: Did you know that Supreme Court rulings can be overturned Mr. Fly?

 

[Jose Fly]

What legislative body (i.e. the US Congress or State Legislatures) passed a law stating that prayer couldn't be done on public school grounds?

No one. Read the link.

Speaking of activist rulings by SCOTUS: Did you know that Supreme Court rulings can be overturned Mr. Fly?

Of course.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
What legislative body (i.e. the US Congress or State Legislatures) passed a law stating that prayer couldn't be done on public school grounds?

No one. Read the link.

Thank you for acknowledging that there is no law that prohibits prayer on public school grounds. When are you going to quit lying and state that it was an activist Supreme Court decision that prohibits such and not a law that was passed by a legislative body?

 

[Jose Fly]

Prayer is not banned at public schools. Read the link.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Prayer is not banned at public schools. Read the link.

I read your link from the left wing bureaucratic Dept. of Education.

Again: What law has a teacher or coach that bows his or her head in prayer during school hours on school grounds broke?

Let me answer that for you Mr. Fly.

None.

 

[The Horn]

If we're going to have school prayer , we should also allow Jewish ,Muslim, Hindu and Wiccan prayer , and kids who belong to any and every religion to pray their way, too .
We should also allow kids who are atheists to make public affirmations of their lack of belief in a god .
America is now the most religiously diverse nation in the world,
with followers of just about every religion in existence, not to mention more atheists than there were people at the time of our founding, and more agnostics than ever .
We are a "Christian nation " only in the sense that the majority of Americans just happen to be Christian .

 

[brewmama]

If we're going to have school prayer , we should also allow Jewish ,Muslim, Hindu and Wiccan prayer , and kids who belong to any and every religion to pray their way, too .
We should also allow kids who are atheists to make public affirmations of their lack of belief in a god .
America is now the most religiously diverse nation in the world,
with followers of just about every religion in existence, not to mention more atheists than there were people at the time of our founding, and more agnostics than ever .
We are a "Christian nation " only in the sense that the majority of Americans just happen to be Christian .

Ooooo, is that supposed to be scary to the pushy ole Christians who dare to practice their faith and Constitutional rights at their workplace? Other people might pray too!! Well, I and most others I know, would say if other people want to pray at their workplace or school then by all means let them.

And it was not "school prayer" except in the sense that it happened on school grounds.
And if the majority of Americans happen to be Christian, then that does make it a Christian nation.

 

[The Horn]

Brewmama, what is your problem with allowing kids who are not Christians to engage in prayer of other religions ? If Christian kids should be allowed to pray , why not Muslim, Jewish , and Hindu kids, too ?
The constitution guarantees every American the right to follow any religion, as well as the right not to follow any religion at all .
But unfortunately, some Christian teachers and school administrators
around the country have been trying to force non-christian kids to participate in Christian prayer and sit through Bible readings ,
and some kids who are not Christian have been harassed by teachers and administrators for not being Christian, and told they are doomed to eternal hellfire unless they convert .
This is totally unacceptable . Schools are supposed to be places for TEACHING, not preaching . Christian kids can pray all they want in church and at home .
No one has the right to proselytize non-christian students in public schools, period .
When I was going to public schools on Long Island in the 1960s,
we all kept our religious faith, or lack of it, to ourselves , whether students or teachers . Teachers never told us anything about which religion we should follow ,nor did they tell us what their religious beliefs were .
We all just minded our own business . Adults and kids never wore their religion on their sleeves . Religion wasn't a big deal in school .
We would all just live and let live . No teacher ever made a statement denigrating Christianity or any other religion , and no kids made a big deal about religion in class . Why can't schools be more like this today ?
My science teachers never mentioned religion in class in either a positive or negative way . Christian kids never used their religion to question what was being taught in science class . But in recent years , a lot of crazy things have been happening in public schools around America, with all kinds of controversies about the conflict between religion and science . What the heck has happened to America ?

 

[brewmama]

Brewmama, what is your problem with allowing kids who are not Christians to engage in prayer of other religions ? If Christian kids should be allowed to pray , why not Muslim, Jewish , and Hindu kids, too ?
The constitution guarantees every American the right to follow any religion, as well as the right not to follow any religion at all .
But unfortunately, some Christian teachers and school administrators
around the country have been trying to force non-christian kids to participate in Christian prayer and sit through Bible readings ,
and some kids who are not Christian have been harassed by teachers and administrators for not being Christian, and told they are doomed to eternal hellfire unless they convert .
This is totally unacceptable . Schools are supposed to be places for TEACHING, not preaching . Christian kids can pray all they want in church and at home .
No one has the right to proselytize non-christian students in public schools, period .
When I was going to public schools on Long Island in the 1960s,
we all kept our religious faith, or lack of it, to ourselves , whether students or teachers . Teachers never told us anything about which religion we should follow ,nor did they tell us what their religious beliefs were .
We all just minded our own business . Adults and kids never wore their religion on their sleeves . Religion wasn't a big deal in school .
We would all just live and let live . No teacher ever made a statement denigrating Christianity or any other religion , and no kids made a big deal about religion in class . Why can't schools be more like this today ?
My science teachers never mentioned religion in class in either a positive or negative way . Christian kids never used their religion to question what was being taught in science class . But in recent years , a lot of crazy things have been happening in public schools around America, with all kinds of controversies about the conflict between religion and science . What the heck has happened to America ?

Huh? Did you not read my post? You got what I said totally wrong.

But you do ask some good questions otherwise. But proselytizing? Nope, you can't just call any expression of someone's faith proselytizing.

 

[The Horn]

Brewmama, you can google all the instances of Christian teachers harassing non-christian kids yourself . These are NOT made up
stories . Something is very wrong here . Teachers should be teaching the subjects they were hired to teach , not trying to tell kids what religion they should follow .