REPORT: Our Passionate God - by Bob Hill

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Our Passionate God - by Bob Hill


If God is omnipotent, which I believe He is, and immutable as Plato, Augustine, and Calvin believed, wouldn’t He be responsible for everything that happens including all the suffering we experience? Then, God would even be the cause of our sinful acts. But that’s ridiculous and incompatible with the statements of the Bible.

How would you reconcile His almighty power and goodness with the mess this world is in? This problem has caused many to doubt that there is a God, or if there is, that He is good.

Archibald MacLeish stated the dilemma this way: “If God is God He is not good / If God is good He is not God.” In other words, how can God be both good and all powerful and allow a mess like this world?

A corollary from this would be the subject of this investigation. When we speak about God’s passion, what do we mean? When I talk about His passion, I mean His love, His emotion, His outbursts of anger, His longing to save, His ardor, His grief, and His hate. Since all of these emotions are attributed to Him in the Bible, why is there even a question about His passion? Why is there even a quality called impassibility attributed to Him? My thesis in this book is: The Bible does not support the speculation that God is impassible. On the contrary, God’s word establishes the fact that God has emotions. Our emotions are like His. However, when we show ours, the negative ones are usually expressed in a context of sin.

First we must understand what the word impassible means. The dictionary states a person is impassible who: 1. cannot feel pain; incapable of suffering. 2. cannot be injured; invulnerable. 3. cannot be moved or aroused emotionally; unfeeling.

If God is passionate, who invented the idea that He is impassible? We are not absolutely sure, but Augustine (354-430), who became the Bishop of Hippo, embraced Plato’s idea that God never changes in anything. This concept was popular in the schools of philosophy of Augustine’s time. Plato explained it this way in, “A dialogue between Socrates and Adeimantus,” in the Republic.

Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else happens least to things that are in the best condition . . . that the healthiest and strongest is least altered. . . . _And is it not the soul that is bravest and most intelligent that would be least disturbed and altered by any external affection . . . that those _which are well made and in good condition are least liable to be changed by time and other influences .

Adeimantus: That is so.

Socrates: It is universally true then, that that which is in the best state by nature or art or both admits least alteration by something else.

Adeimantus: So it seems.

Socrates: But God, surely and everything that belongs to God is in every way in the best possible state. . . . _Then does he (God) change himself for the better and to something fairer, or for the worse and to something uglier than himself? It must necessarily, said he, be for the worse if he is changed . . . _the gods themselves are incapable of change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and neither changes himself nor deceives others. [1 - footnote]

In this dialogue, Plato popularized the idea of the immutability of God. A little over 800 years later Augustine adopted this idea from the writings of Plato and the Neo-Platonists.

After the revival of Augustinianism during the reformation, this idea of the immutability of God permeated our whole society. How did this happen? I’d like to illustrate this by telling a story that I read some time ago. One of the Czars of Russia, while walking in his park, came upon a sentry standing guard over a little patch of weeds. He asked the guard, “What are you doing here?”

“I don’t know. All I know is the Captain of the Guard ordered me to stand guard over this spot.”

The Czar sent for the Captain of the Guard. “What is this man guarding?”

“All I know, Sir, is that the regulations call for a sentry to be posted here.”

The Czar ordered an investigation, but no one in the Russian government could discover why that spot needed guarding. Then they opened the archives, and the mystery was solved. The records showed that 100 years before, Catherine the Great had planted a rose bush on that plot of ground and ordered a sentry posted there to keep people from trampling it. Eventually the rose bush died. For 100 years, men stood guard over that spot where a rose bush had grown and didn’t know why they were guarding it.

Many Christians are guarding religious ideas with a fervor, but haven’t checked the archives (the Bible) to really see why they are guarding them. We are going to check the archives.

To begin, I want to do a credibility check on this idea of impassibility. If He were impassible, would God show wrath? Does God respond to man’s sinful acts in anger? We will see that the answer is, yes, He does respond! Since it is true that God responds in anger, should the idea of impassibility be attributed to Him? The answer to this question is, no, because that would contradict the definitions of immutability and impassibility. I will quote just a few of the many verses that show God’s response in wrath.

Ex 22:22-24 You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. 23 If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry; 24 and My wrath will become hot, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

Ex 32:9-12 And the Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation.” 11 Then Moses pleaded with the Lord his God, and said: “Lord, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people.’”

Deu 9:7,8 Remember! Do not forget how you provoked the Lord your God to wrath in the wilderness. From the day that you departed from the land of Egypt until you came to this place, you have been rebellious against the Lord. 8 Also in Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry enough with you to have destroyed you.

Deu 29:23 The whole land is brimstone, salt, and burning; it is not sown, nor does it bear, nor does any grass grow there, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in His anger and His wrath.

We find that members of the body of Christ are also disciplined by God when they do not discern the body of Christ when partaking of the Lord’s Supper, in 1 Corinthians 11:27-32.

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Then, what is God like? Let’s look at the Archives again. Since the Reformation, the church has dwelt on ideas which give an unbiblical view of God. When we read about God in His word, we see pictures of Him to which our emotions relate, not just our intellect. But these pictures of God’s goodness and compassion have been neglected. I have seen this repeatedly and just read it this week – read! This is representative of the material written about our wonderful God.

God is the cause of everything which happens in the world. If God is not the direct cause of all the ills in the world, He is still the one who allows them because He could change them but does not choose to do anything about them.

Biblical statements about God appeal to me theologically, but metaphors which show me God impact my soul. I want to love my God. If I am to love Him, I must know Him better. Therefore, let’s look at some metaphors in the Bible which show God in a more balanced way.

God suffers when we suffer. This is, indeed, comforting to the person who is suffering.

1. __ God was afflicted in Israel’s affliction.

Isa 63:7-9 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD has bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies, according to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses. 8 For He said, “Surely they are My people, children who will not lie.” So He became their Savior. 9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them all the days of old.

2. __ God agonizes over Israel.

Hos 11:8 How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns within Me; My sympathy is stirred.

3. __ He asks, how long, what, and why?

Ex 16:28 And the LORD said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: “How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?

Num 14:26-27 And the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, 27 “How long shall I bear with this evil congregation who complain against Me? I have heard the complaints which the children of Israel make against Me.”

4. __ Just like a parent, He asks, “What Have I done?”

Mic 6:3 O My people, what have I done to you? And how have I wearied you?

And why?

Isa 50:1-2 Thus says the LORD: “Where is the certificate of your mother’s divorce whom I have put away? Or which of My creditors is it to whom I have sold you? For your iniquities you have sold yourselves, and for your transgressions your mother has been put away. 2 Why, when I came, was there no man? Why, when I called, was there none to answer? Is My hand shortened at all that it cannot redeem? Or have I no power to deliver? Indeed with My rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness; Their fish stink because there is no water and die of thirst.

5. __ He was grieved, just like a parent of a rebellious teenager.

Psa 78:40-41 How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, And grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God and limited the Holy One of Israel.

We can grieve Him even though we are sealed.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

6. __ He loves and grieves like a husband.

Hos 1:2; 2:5,13; 3:1 The LORD said to Hosea: “Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the LORD.” 2:5 “For their mother has played the harlot; She who conceived them has behaved shamefully. For she said, ‘I will go after my lovers, who give me my bread and my water, my wool and my linen, my oil and my drink.’ 2:13 She decked herself with her earrings and jewelry, and went after her lovers; But Me she forgot,” says the LORD. 3:1 “Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans.”

7. __ He loves and grieves like a parent.

Hos 11:1-4 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son. 2 As they [the prophets] called them, so they went from them; They sacrificed to the Baals, and burned incense to carved images. 3 I taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by their arms; But they did not know that I healed them. 4 I drew them with gentle cords, With bands of love, and I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck. I stooped and fed them.

8. __ He’s like a parent at his wit’s end who says, “What more could I do?

Isa 5:1-7 Now let me sing to my Well-beloved. A song of my Beloved regarding His vineyard: My Well-beloved has a vineyard On a very fruitful hill. 2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it brought forth wild grapes. 3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard. 4 What more could have been done to My vineyard That I have not done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes?

That’s the God I love. He’s our passionate God. He suffers when we suffer. He sent His son to suffer and die for us. I love Him because He first loved me. God is not impassible.

What about those theologians who say God cannot be affected by anything outside of Himself. They’re not stupid. In fact, most of them are brilliant. It is my opinion that they defend doctrines which are based on faulty foundations, and they have not examined the foundations to see if they are faulty. I want to look, again, at that brilliant man whose writings have afflicted us for About 1,500 years, Augustine. He wrote the following statement in “On the Morals of the Catholic Church”:

We do not worship a God who repents, or is envious, or needy, . . . . These and such like are the silly notions . . . the fancies of old women or of children . . . those by whom these passages are literally understood .. . . And should any one suppose that anything in God’s substance or nature can suffer change or conversion, he will be held guilty of wild profanity. [2 - footnote]

Since John Calvin, was greatly influenced by Augustine, he wrote in his Institutes:

We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction. [3 - footnote]

I must say, when I was a Calvinist, my theology stifled my love for God, my prayer life, and my desire for evangelism.

Augustine also wrote, in The City of God,

Indeed, to say that He is affected at all, is an abuse of language, since it implies that there comes to be something in His nature which was not there before. For he who is affected is acted upon ,and whatever is acted upon is changeable .. . . But in God the former purpose is not altered and obliterated by the subsequent and different purpose, but by one and the same eternal and unchangeable will He effected regarding the things He created [4 - footnote] . . . . The anger of God is not a disturbing emotion of His mind, but a judgment by which punishment is inflicted upon sin. His thought and reconsideration also are the unchangeable reason which changes things; for He does not, like man, repent of anything He has done, because in all matters His decision is as inflexible as His prescience is certain . [5 - footnote]

But, that’s not the God Who reveals Himself to us in the Bible. He loves us so much, and is affected by our lack of love. He really becomes jealous when we go after others gods.

Ex 20:3-6 You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

What are our gods? Wouldn’t they be anything we put ahead of our God? As our own father, God is jealous of the many things that distract us. It’s so easy to let things take up our time so we forget about Him. That’s why He yearns jealously.

Jam 4:5,6 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? 6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Eph 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man (one who is greedy), who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Col 3:5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

There are many references to God’s jealousy. Here are a few: Deu 32:21; 1 Ki 14:22; Psa 78:58; Psa 79:5. Even one of God’s names is Jealous. Ex 34:14 You shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

We have shown that God is grieved in many ways. That grief causes God to respond in various ways. I only want to look at a few here.

Gen 6:5,6 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Psa 78:40,41 How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, and grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Therefore, in contrast to what many theologians say, we affect our Father. Our wonderful Father really cares: 1 Pe 5:7, “casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.”

I may know many Christians who don’t want to make the commitment to love God with all their heart, but I don’t know any who want to provoke Him. And yet, that seems to be a lot of what we do. Paul was very concerned about the Corinthians. They had a bad track record–immorality, divisions, disputes, you name it. That’s why he wrote in 2 Co 11:2,3,

For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Therefore, let’s love Him with all our heart and use Colossians 3:1-3,5,8-10,12,13 as o ur pattern to check our behavior.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion [especially of a sexual nature], evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do .

But don’t try to do this in your own strength, but put on love, our bond of perfection.

Colossians 3:14,15 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.

_

FOOTNOTES:
[1] Plato, Republic I , Loeb Classical Library, II, pp. 191-197.

[2] Oats, Whitney J. “On the Morals of the Catholic Church,” Basic Writings of Saint Augustine , p. 327. My emphasis.

[3] Calvin, Institutes , AGES Software.

[4] Saint Augustine, The City of God , pp. 399-400. My emphasis.

[5] Ibid. , p. 515. My emphasis.


Report courtesy of www.biblicalanswers.com
 
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Pilgrimagain

Guest
Re: REPORT: Our Passionate God - by Bob Hill

Wow, that's one long post!

what occured to me as I read thorugh it is that most of the problem is that we assume that what seems painful to us is by definition bad, but that is not the case.

Perhaps if we understood that simple concept the problem would not seem so vexing.
 

Bro. Ronnie

New member
God does

God does

God does repent and has done it many times

Amos 7:6
The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.
Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jeremiah 26:13
Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
Joel 2:14
Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
The lord Also repented after moses came down with the ten commandments he was going to destroy all the people and start fresh but Moses intercessed. And God repented of his wrath.
 

Shadowx

New member
Anthropnonsensicalmorphafooology..Its all alegorical!

Anthropnonsensicalmorphafooology..Its all alegorical!

I believe Its *because* God is "Perfect" that he does change in some ways.
God being "Perfect" is the reason he changes
God is love, therefore he changes his mind and shows emotion

He told Eli he and his line would be priests forever
Eli and his sons do evil and God basically says
I know what I said, but forget it.

1 Sam 2:27. And there came a man of God unto Eli, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father, when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
28. And did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to offer upon mine altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me? and did I give unto the house of thy father all the offerings made by fire of the children of Israel?
29. Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
30. Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith, *I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me *for ever*: ***but now*** the Lord saith, *Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.*
31. Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.

The providential of God movement is out of control.
John ankaburg said on Tv, "God not only knows the time of the Christians death, but he is the one who *orchestrates* the means by which all Christian die...

So..the young Christian who is gang raped then murdered, by what HE says above, God was behind it all even though God is against such things...


when you give them jerimiah 19:5..its just an illusion God dosn't mean what we see him saying to them that he did not command this "orchastrate" the deaths of these children unto false Gods.
He even commands them not to sacrifice there children unto false Gods, molect ect but.. he has some secret will and he is talking to them as if they were children...He "Secretly" planned and brought about the deaths of these children..


Nice Job Bob.

X
 

Flyonthewall

New member
Anthropomorphisms

Anthropomorphisms

Be very careful about how you define "anthropomorphism." Most people do not use the term correctly. Observe Noah Webster's definition from 1828:

ANTHROPOMORPH'ISM, n. The heresy of the anthropomorphites.

ANTHROPOMORPH'ITE, n. [Gr. man, and form.]
One who believes a human form in the Supreme Being. A sect of ancient heretics are called anthropomorphites.

ANTHROPOP'ATHY, n. [man, and passion.]
The affections of man, or the application of human passions to the Supreme Being.

(emphasis mine)

Note--an anthropomorphism is the actual application of human characteristics to God. The way the term is typically used, however, is more like "similitude."

SIMIL'ITUDE, n. [L. similitudo.]
1. Likeness; resemblance; likeness in nature, qualities of appearance; as similitude of substance. Let us make man in our image, man in our similitude.

(emphasis mine)

When we predicate similitudes of God, we are not saying that He possesses exactly the same characteristics as man, but rather, that man possesses unique characteristics because God possesses those characteristics in infinite form. For example, we have emotions because God has supreme emotions. In the case of verses that predicate physical substance to God (such as "arm" or "hand"), we understand that those refer to the power of God, which is very real. These are all, therefore, similitudes.

I would be most interested in a serious study of "anthropomorphic language". Are there any books or papers on the subject?
 

Shadowx

New member
Note--an anthropomorphism is the actual application of human characteristics to God. The way the term is typically used, however, is more like "similitude."

SIMIL'ITUDE, n. [L. similitudo.]
1. Likeness; resemblance; likeness in nature, qualities of appearance; as similitude of substance. Let us make man in our image, man in our similitude.

(emphasis mine)

When we predicate similitudes of God, we are not saying that He possesses exactly the same characteristics as man, but rather, that man possesses unique characteristics because God possesses those characteristics in infinite form. For example, we have emotions because God has supreme emotions. In the case of verses that predicate physical substance to God (such as "arm" or "hand"), we understand that those refer to the power of God, which is very real. These are all, therefore, similitudes.

I would be most interested in a serious study of "anthropomorphic language". Are there any books or papers on the subject?



\An`thro*po*mor"phism\, n. [Gr. ? of human form; ? man + ? form.] 1. The representation of the Deity, or of a polytheistic deity, under a human form, or with human attributes and affections.

2. The ascription of human characteristics to things not human.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

anthropomorphism

n : the representation of objects (especially a god) **as having human form or traits**

When they are used to completely dehumanize God as to say, 'well..he doesn't "really" have emotions as we do ect he doesn't really "change his mind" its just an anthromorphism the writer is using to describe God, and he is imputing to God the nature of a man and its not "really" God grieving ect or changing his mind' (even though Gods "actions" in the text show us he is in fact showing emotion or changing his mind) then they are *misused*..


I don't know where you can find a good study on Anthropomorphic or Anthropopathismic language but I have an email conversation I had with a pastor/theologian that covers this if you would like to see it just holla he makes some interesting points on the subject.
shadowx@setel.com

I actually wouldn't mind some more good study material on this myself if anyone knows of a good source.

Fly you said..

"When we predicate similitudes of God, we are not saying that He possesses exactly the same characteristics as man, but rather, that man possesses unique characteristics because God possesses those characteristics in infinite form. For example, we have emotions because God has supreme emotions. In the case of verses that predicate physical substance to God (such as "arm" or "hand"), we understand that those refer to the power of God, which is very real. These are all, therefore, similitudes"

Here is some of my talk with a pastor on the subject of Anthromorphisms

I sent a pastor this below..some questions..
I would be interested in what you believe about the following..

Exodus 33: 19. And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
20. And he said, Thou canst not see *my face*: for there shall no man see me, and live.
22. And it shall come to pass, while my glory passed by, that I will put thee in a Clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23. And I will take away mine hand, and *thou shalt see my back parts*: *but my face shall not be seen*.

this is interesting..because some of this I believe is anthropomorphism and some I believe is not..God says you can't see my "face" BUT you can *see* my back parts..? however God is a "spirit" and they that worship him must worship in spirit, does God have a face? and back parts? if you can see something is it a spirit? can you see a spirit?

when it says he covered mosses with his "hand" I believe it doesn't mean he had this giant "human" hand and covered mosses up, I believe it means "His spiritual abilities" but when it says "face" and "back" parts,<--which he showed mosses..his back parts where able to be seen, so are they literal and of some physical substance..because he says im going to hide you from my "face" but im going to let you "see" my back parts.

NO one can see "MY FACE" and live does it mean he has a face like we have..or does it mean no one can see me "completely" in my true form and live, to me it looks like he has one but it doesn't mean its like a humans, and he showed some of it to mosses, and there is no hint in the text that mosses was seeing a vision or was in a trans

If mosses Could see it with his natural eyes..God must have some type of form, that can be seen,

Pastor:
When you wonder whether or not God has a "hand" big enough to cover Moses, I don't know that He doesn't have a front and a "back" and "eyes" and all the rest. But I know that even these can be anthropomorphic, for Psalm 91:4 says, "He shall cover thee with His feathers"!! <--how would this be covered under an "Anthropomorphism"? does the definition cover imputing to God the form or an animal?

I believe some of the language mentioned in the text about Moses being hid by the Lords hand is anthropomorphic..and perhaps some is not..

Shadowx
 

harvestmoon

BANNED
Banned
to tell the truth im not too familiar with the bibal. but in response to what you are saying. the obvious answer seems to be that god is at the end of the day the"almighty"
this is not a case of god being the ying and satan the yang.
god is just as much the power of good as he is evil.
the devil isnt his equal apponement, just a rebel angel who was eventualy imprisoned.
god is the energy of creation which runs through everything. water and rocks, righteous and wicked.
aswell as this, people are not either good or evil, and life is not a preverbial test to determine which we fall under. anyone is as capeable of a deed as anyone else.

the bibal supports this, just read through the whole story of ellija jesabel and the 5th mountain
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
The Lord said to Satan, in Job 1:12, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand."

We are under His Protection, if we are Christians. We have the power of the Blood of Jesus, the protection of angels and all the promises of the scriptures. Job lived (I believe) under the Adamic Covenant, which provided very little of what we have, being under this New and Better Covenant, which Jesus wrote in His own Blood.

I have often meditated on this very thing: why would God create Satan? To sum up a lifetime (I'm 47) of wondering, studying, praying and meditating: He's a Holy God. No, I mean it, that sums it up. He is holy. I don't mean that He washes His Hands every time He thinks that His Hands might be defiled, or wears 'priestly' robes so that people think, "That guy must be holy." No, He is Holy. The goodness and pure love that flows from Him is un-mistakeable, it is Holy. His River is Holy. We are alive, able to breathe, think and even argue... because of His Holiness. This River of Living Water (His Holy Spirit) lives in me. He lives in many believers, and wants for all men to be saved. Now, the Bible says that only those written in the Lamb's Book of Life will share in His Heaven, but the opening is there... for WHOSOEVER WILL. Whoever calls upon the Name of the Lord Jesus will NEVER be cast out. He provided for this special pass (salvation) to Heaven Personally. He came down from His Throne, stepped out of Eternity, entered time by taking up residence in Mary's Womb for nine months, lived, preached, was murdered for telling the Truth (the only Human Being who never once lied), and because He accepted the penalty of someone who has sinned (death), without deserving same, is capable of applying this travesty of one of the main ordinances of life to anyone who will allow for the substitution to take place; that is to say: to allow Jesus' death to be theirs and allow their life to be His. Holy. That is all I can say. Good. There is just so much goodness in Him, we cannot comprehend it. When we see just what, exactly, He was doing by allowing the devil to run rough-shod across the earth for 6,000 years or so, we will be very pleasantly surprised. Our Holy God decided that our good was more necessary than our flesh. What the world or the devil do to our flesh becomes irrelevant in the sight of Holiness. A lot of this cannot be comprehended by the mind, which has only a certain number of brain cells. God is Infinite. He is, therefore, Infinitely Good. If we think for one minute that this finite, created being can judge, or even just comprehend the Infinite God, King of the Universe, we need to re-think. I have seen a vision of His Holiness, many times; but it is not enough, I want to see His Face.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by harvestmoon
to tell the truth im not too familiar with the bibal. but in response to what you are saying. the obvious answer seems to be that god is at the end of the day the"almighty"
this is not a case of god being the ying and satan the yang.
god is just as much the power of good as he is evil.
the devil isnt his equal apponement, just a rebel angel who was eventualy imprisoned.
god is the energy of creation which runs through everything. water and rocks, righteous and wicked.
aswell as this, people are not either good or evil, and life is not a preverbial test to determine which we fall under. anyone is as capeable of a deed as anyone else.

the bibal supports this, just read through the whole story of ellija jesabel and the 5th mountain


To tell you the truth...
:devil: :devil: :devil:
you're going to Hell if you don't repent!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Originally posted by harvestmoon
the devil isnt his equal apponement, just a rebel angel who was eventualy imprisoned.
Read will be imprisoned.
god is the energy of creation which runs through everything. water and rocks, righteous and wicked.
aswell as this, people are not either good or evil, and life is not a preverbial test to determine which we fall under. anyone is as capeable of a deed as anyone else.

the bibal supports this, just read through the whole story of ellija jesabel and the 5th mountain
Have you read the Book of the Revelation of John? All whose names are not found in Jesus' Book of Life are cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
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