Real Science Friday: List of Not So Old Things

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Jefferson

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List of Not So Old Things

This is the show from Friday September 18th, 2009.

SUMMARY:

This growing list of scientific observations contains items that even old-earth geologists now admit did not form over millions of years, but rapidly. As reported by KGOV.com's Real Science Friday hosts CRS webmaster Fred Williams and Bob Enyart, many of these scientific finds demand a re-evaluation of supposed million-year ages:

* Soft Tissue T-Rex: Montana State University found soft tissue in a supposedly 65-million year old Tyrannosaurus Rex thighbone that remain supple: see startling photos!

* '155 million year old' - Squid - 'Still Inky': Which two of those three claims are irrefutable? The British Geological Survey's Dr. Phil Wilby gets two right. It was a squid. And it was still inky! See the report of the find and the drawing of the squid drawn by the squid's very own ink!

* Scablands: cover thousands of square miles of eastern Washington and against fierce geologists claims of slow formation over millions of years, there is now overwhelming evidence as presented even in a NOVA TV show that the Scablands formed rapidly from catastrophic, regional flooding.

* Heart Mountain Detachment: near Yellowstone, didn't occur slowly by uniformitarian processes, but in only about 30 minutes a mountain of rock covering 425 square miles broke into 50 pieces and slide apart over an area of more than 1,300 square miles. The evolutionist source LiveScience.com reports, "Land Speed Record: Mountain Moves 62 Miles in 30 Minutes."

* MORE SOFT DINOSAUR TISSUE!: Ho-hum… sooo boring. According to National Geographic, just another dinosaur with soft-tissue, this time, a hadrosaur, with soft blood vessels and connective tissue and… what’s this? Looks like blood cell protein amino acid chains that have already been partially sequenced at Harvard. This supposedly 80-million year-old non-fossilized duck-billed dinosaur tissue was discovered by a team led by researchers at North Carolina State University.

Seems they wanted to get some soft dino tissue, so they put together a team, and just went out and got some. (Consider all the potential soft dino structures, and perhaps even DNA, lost to humanity because of the false evolutionary timescale which so biased paleontology that they never even would look for non-decomposed, non-fossilized biological tissue inside of dinosaur bones.)

* Rare School of Jellyfish Fossilized: Previously, seven sedimentary layers had been described as taking a million years to form. And because jellyfish have no skeleton, it is rare to find them among fossils. But now, a school of jellyfish fossils have been found in those same seven layers showing that they were not deposited over a million years, but during a single event and quickly enough to trap a school of jellyfish.

* Yellowstone Petrified Tree Strata: The National Park Service took down their deceptive sign that had claimed petrified trees in a dozen different strata had proved that millions of years had passed during the rise and fall of successive forests. But the petrified trees there had no root systems, and the trees were clearly transported by water and settled into rapidly deposited sediments just as had occurred in Spirit Lake after Mount St. Helens erupted. Bob Enyart had the honor of working with the head ranger at a National Park (had dinner at his home; discussed how this sign could be removed), and he corresponded with his colleagues at Yellowstone and urged them to correct or remove the sign. They removed it. (See also AIG.).

* European vs. Asiatic Honeybees: these two populations of bees have been separated supposedly for seven million years. A researcher decided to put the two together to see what would happen. What we should have here is a failure to communicate that would have resulted after their "language" evolved over millions of years. However, European and Asiatic honeybees are still able to communicate, putting into doubt the evolutionary claim that they were separated over "geologic periods." For more, see Real Science Friday at KGOV.com, Nov. 7, 2008 and Creation Magazine, September 2008 and PLoS ONE (Public Library of Science) 4 June 2008.

* Carlsbad Cavern: New Mexico, Nat'l Park Service sign said 260 MYA, then 8MYA, then 2MYA, and then they took down the sign claiming formation took millions of year. On Bob Enyart's family vacation in 2005 the official audio tour states, "rate of formation depends on the amount of available water." See RSF 11-7-08 at KGOV.

* Lihir Gold Deposit: in Papua New Guinea, evolutionists assumed the more than 20 million ounces of gold in the Lihir reserve took millions of years to deposit, but geologists can now demonstrate that the deposit could have formed in thousands of years, or far more quickly!

* Box Canyon, Idaho: Geologists now think Box Canyon in Idaho, USA, was carved by a catastrophic flood and not slowly over millions of years with 1) huge plunge pools formed by waterfalls; 2) the almost complete removal of large basalt boulders from the canyon; 3) an eroded notch on the plateau at the top of the canyon; and 4) water scour marks on the basalt plateau leading to the canyon. Scientists calculate that the flood was so large that it could have eroded the whole canyon in as little as 35 days. Creation Magazine, Sept. – Nov. 2008 page 7 from Science 23 May 2008, pp. 1067-1070

* Manganese Nodules: which allegedly form only over "geologic time periods" have formed "around beer cans" according to a World Almanac documentary, of course disproving the million-year requirement! There are also reports of manganese nodules forming on old World War II ships.

* Mitochondrial Eve: by quantifying the differences in the human genome of mitochondrial DNA and tracking its mutation rate, scientists calculate that there is not millions of years worth of mutations among mankind but only thousands of years. Initially, by admittedly including chimpanzee DNA among their data, evolutionists calculated that Eve lived more than 200,000 years ago, but using actual human mutation rates, she is now dated as just tens of thousands, and even only six thousand years old! See also Creation.com's "A shrinking date for 'Eve'" and Science magazine's "Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock."

* Super Nova Remnants: an explosion appeared in the night sky in 1054 A.D. as a supernova remnant (SNR) in the Crab Nebula. Evolutionary scientists have measured and calculated the expected rate that stars would explode. However, if the universe is billions of years old, the vast majority of SNRs (like the Crab Nebula) that should exist, are missing! Instead, the number of SNRs corresponds well to the expected number if the universe is less than 10,000 years old, especially considering that astronomers have not found a single SNR at Stage 3 (a great diameter)! Of course, if the universe is young, there should be no State 3 SNRs! Listen to this Real Science Friday program at KGOV.com!

* Fossils with Protein, DNA and Bacteria: As listed in 2008 by Dr. Walt Brown…
- allegedly 17 million year old magnolia leaf contains DNA (Scientific American 1993)
- allegedly 100 million year old dinosaur fossil contains protein (Science News 1992)
- allegedly 120 million year old insect fossil contains DNA (Nature 1993)
- allegedly 200 million year old fish fossil contains DNA (Science. News 1992)
- allegedly 30 million year old bee fossil contains LIVING bacteria (Science 1995)
- allegedly 600 million year old rock contains LIVING bacillus (Nature 2000).

* Saturn’s Rings: do not show the stability predicted by their presumed 50 to 100 million year-old age, but have changed significantly since man’s first mappings. See RSF 4-10-06 at KGOV.

* Earth's Magnetic Field Reversals: Disproving any notion that magnetic reversals must occur over long periods, as documented by Dr. Walt Brown, Evidence Suggesting Extremely Rapid Field Variations During a Geomagnetic Reversal, Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 1989; Earth's Field Flipping Fast, New Scientist, 1992; New Evidence for Extraordinarily Rapid Change of the Geomagnetic Field During a Reversal, Nature 1995. "At one time the orientation of the earth's magnetic field changed rapidly?by up to 6 degrees per day for several days," Brown, 2008.

* Polystrate Fossils: In a thousand locations including the Fossil Cliffs of Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate fossils such as trees span many strata disproving the claim that the layers were deposited slowly over millions of years. See CRSQ June 2006, ICR Impact #316, and RSF 8-11-06 at KGOVArchives.org.

* Carbon-14 Unexpectedly Found… Everywhere: Carbon-14 decays in only thousands of years, and therefore, cannot last for millions of years. Thus evolutionists are shocked to find Carbon-14 EVERYWHERE it shouldn't be if the earth were old. Carbon-14 is found in diamonds, coal, oil, dinosaur fossils, and amber! In a recent find, Fall 2007 CRSQ, radiocarbon exists even in supposedly million-year-old two-mile deep natural gas wells: "Once again, fossil gas is not carbon-14 dead. Thus, the age of the gases is on the order of thousands, not millions of years.” See RSF 3-28-08 at KGOV.

* Spiral Galaxies: after their alleged billions of years the spiral arms of “pinwheel” galaxies should now be deformed, since as has been known for decades, the speed of the arms does not align with the galaxy centers, so there is “missing billions of years” of deformation in spiral galaxies. Atheistic astronomers have great difficulty even explaining where our own Moon came from, let alone the entire universe, and they admit they can’t even figure out which formed first, stars or galaxies, showing that their Big Bang theory does not merit the absolute trust that millions put in it. Thus far from being able to explain how the universe could form apart from God, they are groping in the dark. See RSF 7-25-08 at KGOV.

* Yikes! Millions of Years are MISSING Here: According to evolutionary geologists, there are MORE THAN 100 MILLION YEARS MISSING in the extraordinarily regular and straight layers of the Grand Canyon!

Supposed geological layers entirely missing from the beautifully formed Grand Canyon strata include the Ordovician and the Silurian. The flat boundaries between strata provide hard evidence proving that millions of years of erosion DID NOT OCCUR, and that therefore, those millions of years DID NOT PASS, neither in the canyon nor anywhere on Earth, for they are an atheistic fiction.

* Today's Resource: Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out Guillermo Gonzalez' Privileged Planet (clip), Illustra Media's Unlocking the Mystery of Life (clip)! You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart's Age of the Earth Debate; Walt Brown's In the Beginning and Bob's interviews with this great scientist in Walt Brown Week; the superb kids' radio programming, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI's tremendous Creation magazine!
 

john w

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Care to elaborate?

"contains items that even old-earth geologists now admit did not form over millions of years, but rapidly"

I have fruitcake that did not form over millions of years. I have some , which I can document, that is only 30 years old.
 

bybee

New member
Eek!

Eek!

"contains items that even old-earth geologists now admit did not form over millions of years, but rapidly"

I have fruitcake that did not form over millions of years. I have some , which I can document, that is only 30 years old.

Don't eat it! It is probably spoiled by now. peace, bybee
 

Jukia

New member
List of Not So Old Things


* MORE SOFT DINOSAUR TISSUE!: Ho-hum… sooo boring. According to National Geographic, just another dinosaur with soft-tissue, this time, a hadrosaur, with soft blood vessels and connective tissue and… what’s this? Looks like blood cell protein amino acid chains that have already been partially sequenced at Harvard. This supposedly 80-million year-old non-fossilized duck-billed dinosaur tissue was discovered by a team led by researchers at North Carolina State University.

Seems they wanted to get some soft dino tissue, so they put together a team, and just went out and got some. (Consider all the potential soft dino structures, and perhaps even DNA, lost to humanity because of the false evolutionary timescale which so biased paleontology that they never even would look for non-decomposed, non-fossilized biological tissue inside of dinosaur bones.)

Yeah, sometimes scientists are tricky like that huh? Hmm, we found this unexpected thing, now that we think about it, maybe we can find more?

Or like, Lets see, we think that there might be a transitional type of fossil between sea and land in the late Devonian, something with the some characteristics of fish and tetrapods. Where might we find that? Where might we find some late Devonian type rock? Well we know there is some of that rock in northern Canada. Lets go look.
And, drum roll, please, Tiktaalik.

Darn those wascawly scientists!!!!!!

Thanks Pastor Bob, and webmaster Williams, once again you show your lack of understanding and lack of intellectual integrity.
 

Stripe

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Yeah, sometimes scientists are tricky like that huh? Hmm, we found this unexpected thing, now that we think about it, maybe we can find more? Or like, Lets see, we think that there might be a transitional type of fossil between sea and land in the late Devonian, something with the some characteristics of fish and tetrapods. Where might we find that? Where might we find some late Devonian type rock? Well we know there is some of that rock in northern Canada. Lets go look. And, drum roll, please, Tiktaalik. Darn those wascawly scientists!!!!!! Thanks Pastor Bob, and webmaster Williams, once again you show your lack of understanding and lack of intellectual integrity.
Atheists love to change the subject when they meet a point they cannot answer. They also love to then immediately blame the other side for being dishonest.
 

Jukia

New member
Atheists love to change the subject when they meet a point they cannot answer. They also love to then immediately blame the other side for being dishonest.

Is English not your first language? Problems with comprehension?

I was not changing the subject. I was suggesting that is the way science works. Reread the opening post and mine. I was suggesting that a new, unexpected piece of information came up (T.rex "soft tissue") and someone decided to see if it was more common than ever thought.
I think connected it with the thought processes that led to the discovery of Tiktalaak. Just takes a bit more mental processing that settleing for "this is hard to understand, therefore Goddidit".

And creationists are often dishonest.
 

gsweet

New member
this is getting kind of ridiculous. a lot of these points have been discussed here on TOL before (a few even in the BEL section), and it has been pointed out many times that scientific interpretation changes! just because non-biblical interpretations of the natural earth have evolved, does not mean that Genesis is correct!

i'll go with Lihir and any other porphyry-type copper-gold-moly deposit on this one, and if anyone's interested, i'll even dig up some of my old papers...large volumes of magma take a while to cool; the formation of mineral resource deposits (i.e. Lihir) are intrinsically tied to a very specific phase of cooling of these massive crustal magma bodies. so yes, the gold deposition can take place "instantaneously" (in geological terminology...i.e. on the order of 1000's of years), but the processes responsible for producing the fluids which transport and concentrate the gold rely on many, many steps of cooling and element refinement which take many more thousands to tens of thousands of years.


*throws gauntlet*
 

Stripe

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Is English not your first language? Problems with comprehension?

English is my first language, Mandarin my second.

I was not changing the subject.
Uh huh. :rolleyes:

I was suggesting that is the way science works. Reread the opening post and mine. I was suggesting that a new, unexpected piece of information came up (T.rex "soft tissue") and someone decided to see if it was more common than ever thought. I think connected it with the thought processes that led to the discovery of Tiktalaak. Just takes a bit more mental processing that settleing for "this is hard to understand, therefore Goddidit".
Uh huh. How very stupid of you, Jokia.

And creationists are often dishonest.
And you're a complete waste of time.

this is getting kind of ridiculous. a lot of these points have been discussed here on TOL before (a few even in the BEL section), and it has been pointed out many times that scientific interpretation changes! just because non-biblical interpretations of the natural earth have evolved, does not mean that Genesis is correct!

How is this point in any way useful? I hear it so often. Of what possible use is it to make?

i'll go with Lihir and any other porphyry-type copper-gold-moly deposit on this one, and if anyone's interested, i'll even dig up some of my old papers...large volumes of magma take a while to cool; the formation of mineral resource deposits (i.e. Lihir) are intrinsically tied to a very specific phase of cooling of these massive crustal magma bodies. so yes, the gold deposition can take place "instantaneously" (in geological terminology...i.e. on the order of 1000's of years), but the processes responsible for producing the fluids which transport and concentrate the gold rely on many, many steps of cooling and element refinement which take many more thousands to tens of thousands of years. *throws gauntlet*
Magma takes time to cool based on depth and size of the body. I'm guessing you believe these deposits formed at depth and so took a long time. I would suggest that they formed much as they are found removing the time-frame required for both concentration and solidification.

*catches gauntlet, throws mace*

:)
 

gsweet

New member
How is this point in any way useful? I hear it so often. Of what possible use is it to make?

Magma takes time to cool based on depth and size of the body. I'm guessing you believe these deposits formed at depth and so took a long time. I would suggest that they formed much as they are found removing the time-frame required for both concentration and solidification.

*catches gauntlet, throws mace*

:)

forgive me stripe, the first part was voiced in anger as it seems the lines of argument above are continuing to be cited without any recognition of the debates ongoing on TOL...in the BEL forum even!

you suggest that these deposits (Lihir and other porphyry-style deposits) formed at shallow depths or even on the surface because you're attributing rate of crystallization/cooling to depth (surrounding pressure and temp)? a couple of problems:
1. these deposits require a specific pressure regime to produce brines/fluids that can strip and carry these specific metal budgets and to produce the igneous rock textures that we can readily observe within them. not to mention deposit the metals in question. in order to transport gold, the brines must actually be a supercritical fluid that incorporates SO2, CO2 and sulfo-salts, as well as water and other volatiles. (all of which are all provided by the crystallizing magmatic intrusion as gases, water and volatiles that cannot be incorporated into the crystallizing minerals must go somewhere!) this fluid requires a relatively high pressure regime provided by 2-3km depth, where the lithostatic pressure (the pressure provided by the overlying rock) exceeds the hydrostatic pressure (the pressure provided by the fluid).

in order to remove the gold/copper/etc from the supercritical solution, rapid depressurization is required. the continued crystallization of the magmatic body literally squeezes the supercritical fluid into a smaller and smaller space (fluid has trouble moving through competent, already crystallized rock, no?), until the hydrostatic exceeds the lithostatic pressure. this cracks the rock within, around and above the magmatic body, providing a fluid pathway for the fluids and rapidly depressurizing them. with the depressurization, the fluid is no longer supercritical: degassing of the SO2, CO2, etc occurs and the brine can no longer sustain dissolved gold/copper/etc. this same rapid depressurization produces a handful of very distinctive igneous rock textures including porphyritic texture, some specific forms of colliform quartz and calcite, and unidirectional growth textures.

2. if the magma bodies associated with these types of deposits (generally 10's to 100's of cubic kilometers) were exposed at the surface, the gasses and volatiles required for gold/copper/etc transport would be given off almost immediately (gasses/fluids are far more buoyant than crystallizing magma and would thus make their way upwards and outwards towards a lower pressure regime).

so yes, rapid deposition of gold in these deposits is possible and in all likelihood probable, but the formation of the deposits themselves is far more time consuming. Stripe or Bob, if you'd like to read more about this type of thing let me know...i have more papers than i'd like to acknowledge on the subject.

i'd also like to say that i read the link to the Lihir deposit provided in the OP and i'm a bit disturbed with the "summary". it's incredibly dishonest as it very clearly cherry-picks a couple of quotes out of context from two valid scientific papers, then, when confronted with data that (even without context) doesn't support the YEC view, states "He claims this volcanic dome collapse was half a million years ago, but what does he know? Just a little while ago, these guys thought gold deposits required millions of years." really?! refutation of data via an appeal to a false comparison?! apparently the author of this summary has forgotten two things: our understanding of the natural world is constantly changing (hence my above statement about science in general), and there are many types of gold deposits on this planet. many! we're still discovering them, in fact...Lihir is a good example.

anywho, i'm actually fairly ticked off by this summary as the only thing it convinces me of is that the author is not very honest and doesn't have any background knowledge of the subject. as well, it frustrates me that someone i know and respect, have worked with and continue to work with (geology is a small world...pun intended) is being disingenuously quoted here "concluding" something that is not at all what his paper actually states.


*catches mace in mouth*
*eats mace*
*spits out shards of metal*
*burps loudly*
 

gsweet

New member
gsweet: thanks but goodness sooo much science

:chuckle: give a scientist a cookie, and....

i think my point here (and in many other instances) is to establish a process. in all but a few instances, i find creation science to only postulate on the cause of geological phenomena. rarely do i encounter any actual stated process with evidence that can readily be observed on all spatial scales (small to large). so as one who studies science, i feel it's kind of my job to point out that this method of answering the question of the natural world is not good science.

as for the post above? sorry. i think i got carried away. but it's a complex and fairly well understood process that is absolutely integral to the formation of these deposits. after reading the two papers cited by the OP author, i came to the conclusion that there was only a very superficial understanding of what these papers were about. so i pointed out that the cited work in fact did not indicate a YEC-type time scale, but rather the opposite.
 

Stripe

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forgive me stripe, the first part was voiced in anger as it seems the lines of argument above are continuing to be cited without any recognition of the debates ongoing on TOL...in the BEL forum even!

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

you suggest that these deposits (Lihir and other porphyry-style deposits) formed at shallow depths or even on the surface because you're attributing rate of crystallization/cooling to depth (surrounding pressure and temp)?
Where were they found?

I would suggest it prudent to assume first that they formed where they are unless there is good reason why that would be impossible.

a couple of problems:
1. these deposits require a specific pressure regime to produce brines/fluids that can strip and carry these specific metal budgets and to produce the igneous rock textures that we can readily observe within them. not to mention deposit the metals in question. in order to transport gold, the brines must actually be a supercritical fluid that incorporates SO2, CO2 and sulfo-salts, as well as water and other volatiles. (all of which are all provided by the crystallizing magmatic intrusion as gases, water and volatiles that cannot be incorporated into the crystallizing minerals must go somewhere!) this fluid requires a relatively high pressure regime provided by 2-3km depth, where the lithostatic pressure (the pressure provided by the overlying rock) exceeds the hydrostatic pressure (the pressure provided by the fluid).
Oh. That sounds reasonable.

At what depth are the deposits found today?

in order to remove the gold/copper/etc from the supercritical solution, rapid depressurization is required. the continued crystallization of the magmatic body literally squeezes the supercritical fluid into a smaller and smaller space (fluid has trouble moving through competent, already crystallized rock, no?), until the hydrostatic exceeds the lithostatic pressure. this cracks the rock within, around and above the magmatic body, providing a fluid pathway for the fluids and rapidly depressurizing them. with the depressurization, the fluid is no longer supercritical: degassing of the SO2, CO2, etc occurs and the brine can no longer sustain dissolved gold/copper/etc. this same rapid depressurization produces a handful of very distinctive igneous rock textures including porphyritic texture, some specific forms of colliform quartz and calcite, and unidirectional growth textures.
How is this a problem? The water escapes toward the surface and leaves a deposit near the surface. That's exactly what I said. If you're saying that the process started at a few kms deep and left the deposit where it is then I have no problem. How does this make the deposits millions of years old?

2. if the magma bodies associated with these types of deposits (generally 10's to 100's of cubic kilometers) were exposed at the surface, the gasses and volatiles required for gold/copper/etc transport would be given off almost immediately (gasses/fluids are far more buoyant than crystallizing magma and would thus make their way upwards and outwards towards a lower pressure regime).
The heat source would have had to have been contained and then ruptured. Agreed. That works at depth. But the deposits were formed where they are now .. near the surface. Right?

so yes, rapid deposition of gold in these deposits is possible and in all likelihood probable, but the formation of the deposits themselves is far more time consuming.
What if the pressure and heat were caused by something other than a plug of magma?

Stripe or Bob, if you'd like to read more about this type of thing let me know...i have more papers than i'd like to acknowledge on the subject.
Sure. It'd help a discussion if you could restate what's going on in more user friendly terms, but I'll read anything. :)

i'd also like to say that i read the link to the Lihir deposit provided in the OP and i'm a bit disturbed with the "summary". it's incredibly dishonest as it very clearly cherry-picks a couple of quotes out of context from two valid scientific papers, then, when confronted with data that (even without context) doesn't support the YEC view, states "He claims this volcanic dome collapse was half a million years ago, but what does he know? Just a little while ago, these guys thought gold deposits required millions of years." really?! refutation of data via an appeal to a false comparison?! apparently the author of this summary has forgotten two things: our understanding of the natural world is constantly changing (hence my above statement about science in general), and there are many types of gold deposits on this planet. many! we're still discovering them, in fact...Lihir is a good example. anywho, i'm actually fairly ticked off by this summary as the only thing it convinces me of is that the author is not very honest and doesn't have any background knowledge of the subject. as well, it frustrates me that someone i know and respect, have worked with and continue to work with (geology is a small world...pun intended) is being disingenuously quoted here "concluding" something that is not at all what his paper actually states.
I think you're over-reacting.

*catches mace in mouth*
*eats mace*
*spits out shards of metal*
*burps loudly*
Tasty? :)

:chuckle: give a scientist a cookie, and....

i think my point here (and in many other instances) is to establish a process. in all but a few instances, i find creation science to only postulate on the cause of geological phenomena. rarely do i encounter any actual stated process with evidence that can readily be observed on all spatial scales (small to large). so as one who studies science, i feel it's kind of my job to point out that this method of answering the question of the natural world is not good science.

as for the post above? sorry. i think i got carried away. but it's a complex and fairly well understood process that is absolutely integral to the formation of these deposits. after reading the two papers cited by the OP author, i came to the conclusion that there was only a very superficial understanding of what these papers were about. so i pointed out that the cited work in fact did not indicate a YEC-type time scale, but rather the opposite.
If you're going to pay attention to and derive material from Jokia then it's not going to help the discussion any. You have the background, qualifications and reputation to be able to state your case and be respected for it. Please don't descend to the typical Jokia tactic of belittling the opposition in order to try and win points.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
this is getting kind of ridiculous. a lot of these points have been discussed here on TOL before (a few even in the BEL section), and it has been pointed out many times that scientific interpretation changes! just because non-biblical interpretations of the natural earth have evolved, does not mean that Genesis is correct!

i'll go with Lihir and any other porphyry-type copper-gold-moly deposit on this one, and if anyone's interested, i'll even dig up some of my old papers...large volumes of magma take a while to cool; the formation of mineral resource deposits (i.e. Lihir) are intrinsically tied to a very specific phase of cooling of these massive crustal magma bodies. so yes, the gold deposition can take place "instantaneously" (in geological terminology...i.e. on the order of 1000's of years), but the processes responsible for producing the fluids which transport and concentrate the gold rely on many, many steps of cooling and element refinement which take many more thousands to tens of thousands of years.


*throws gauntlet*
If they keep coming out and telling us they were wrong how are we supposed to trust them, ever?
 

PlastikBuddha

New member
If they keep coming out and telling us they were wrong how are we supposed to trust them, ever?

Trust the scientific process, its self-correcting nature, and the growth of knowledge, not "them"...
Science isn't about the people its about the facts and how they are applied and how new knowledge changes our understanding.
 
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