Baraminologist Dr. Roger Sanders on RSF
This is the show from Friday June 10th, 2011.
[TOL Note: Within the first 15 posts below, Bob replies to Alate_One, Frayed Knot, and the Barbarian; and by the 35th post, Tom from Maybank joins in the battle! And I'm sorry to see that Jukia has been banned
and just after I gave him positive "reps" for post 4 (I appreciated his contrarian humor) but with the enormous latitude that TOL gives to those who are hostile to it's own biblical position, I imagine that Jukia earned his banishment.]
SUMMARY:
* Baraminology Author in Studio: Real Science Friday interviews Dr. Roger Sanders of Bryan College. What's baraminology? It's a furtherance of Adam's first task, which was to name the animals, into a classification of living things within the framework of the created kinds as described in Genesis. The anti-creationist National Center for Science Education begrudgingly states, in an article by Alan Gishlick, that researchers, such as Dr. Sanders, "practice a form of systematics, called 'baraminology', and for creationist science it is surprisingly rigorous and internally consistent." RSF is happy to accept that compliment on behalf of creationists and reminds our audience of Bob's debate with the NCSE president Eugenie Scott that you can watch on DVD or listen to right here on Real Science Friday at KGOV.com.
* Is there a Genetic Bottleneck in Land Animals? Because a global flood destroyed almost all land animals and birds only thousands of years ago, Bob asked Dr. Sanders if marine animals have been shown to have greater genetic diversity than bird and land animals. Dr. Sanders recalled that a study done on land and marine turtles showed greater genetic diversity among sea turtles. Evolutionists believe that sea turtles evolved from land-dwelling creatures, so if evolution were true, genetically we would expect to see the opposite of what we expect to see from the perspective of a recent global flood. This Turtle Topic reminds RSF of one of our recurring themes, that the fossil records documents statis rather than evolution, as in this quote from Bob Strauss on turtle evolution: "the basic turtle body plan arose very early in the history of life (during the late Triassic period), and has persisted pretty much unchanged down to the present day... Paleontologists still haven't identified the EXACT family of prehistoric reptiles that spawned modern turtles and tortoises, but they do know one thing: it wasn't the placodonts." [RSF capitalized the letters of "exact" to call attention to this common style of the misleading use of words by evolutionists]
* Adam's First Task: "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field..." Genesis 2:19-20
[Post-show Note: Why would God's Word say that He brought the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them" if the future is exhaustively foreknown? If this topic interests you, check out the recent debate, Is the Future Settled or Open? between Bob Enyart and Dr. Larry Bray.]
* Carl Linnaeus, John Ray, and Classification: The fathers of biology and modern biological classification were creationists. The distinctions that enable the classification of living things appears itself to be poweful evidence for creation. For the groupings of biological organisms by body design distinguishes them from other groups by a discernible discontinuity. If evolution had actually happened, it happened not in descrete and enormous steps of differentiation, but by producing a seamless continuum of organisms. And just as the fossil record is missing the mountains intermediary stages that should dominate it's catalogues, so too living creatures should display widespread continuity.
* Two Classification Quotes from Creation.com: On molecular biology, "Many hoped that molecular genetics would confirm evolution. It did not. It confirms taxonomic distances between organisms, but not the postulated phylogenetic sequences. It confirmed Linnaeus, not Darwin." And about John Ray and Carl Linnaeus: "John Ray was a committed Christian and brilliant biologist of the seventeenth century—credited with defining the term ‘species’ as a group of organisms that can interbreed to form fertile offspring. Carl Linnaeus (Latin form of his Swedish name, von Linné) was responsible for founding taxonomy in the 18th century, the classification of all living things into a hierarchy, with genus and species names at the bottom. Initially, they both erred in their belief that species were fixed, that none had been lost since creation and that new species could not arise. Later in their lives, both Ray and Linnaeus made observations that caused them to modify their position to one that allowed speciation by a combination of degenerative changes and/or cross-breeding."
* Notes from Dr. Sanders Presentation at the Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship: An example of a conclusion of baraminology research is that whereas today's 10,000 species of grasses were preserved from before the flood, all 175 species of horses descended from one pair on the ark. This year the Journal of Evolutionary Biology published an article by Dr. Todd Wood who is the director of the Center for Origins Research at Bryan College where Dr. Sanders works. Evolutionists have prefaced the traditional ordering of living things with the "domain" category so that there is Domain, Kingdom, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species. The classical ordering of species has located perhaps 60% of the created kinds at the level of "Family," including for example the cat family, with other created kinds either above or below that level, with for example the water fowl created kind classified higher (class and order) and the created kind hominid Australopithecus lower, at the species level. Other interesting notes: Apparently, dandelions can become trees on islands. And scientists have genetically modified a small plant of a just few inches in height, to repress a single gene, and it has now become a wooded tree. Dogs and foxes have the same genes on different chromosomes, which probably occurred during the rapid diversification in the early post-flood period. By determining created kinds and then listing the animals mentioned in Genesis and Job (like horses, camels, wolves, donkeys, etc.), helps to determine the rate of diversification shortly after the Flood. And from Dr. Sanders' paper on a Quick Method for Developing a Cognitum System, "biologists can… identify and systematize cognita quickly… because God created organisms to be perceived by humans who were created to recognize and sort easily by "gestalt."
* Post-show Bonus: Neither the medieval world nor the church ever taught that the Earth was flat or had four corners. These Bible verses imply a spherical Earth: Job 26:10; Proverbs 8:27; Ecclesiastes 1:6; Psalm 19:6; Isaiah 40:22. And the phrase, "the four corners of the earth," is a Jewish idiom that means the entirety of the earth just as the same Hebrew words mean the entirety of a nation when used in that context, as in Ezekiel 7:2: "the four corners of the land [of Israel]."
Today’s Resource: You'll just love the science DVDs, books, and written, audio and video debates offered by Real Science Friday! So have you browsed through ourScience Department in the KGOV Store? Check out Bob most highly-recommended astronomy DVD, What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy! And see Walt Brown’s great hardcover book, In the Beginning! You’ll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez’ Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media’sUnlocking the Mystery of Life (clip)! You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart’s Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with the infamous anti-creationist Dr. Eugenie Scott. And if you have young kids or grand kids, you owe it to them and to yourself to give them as a gift the SUPERB kids' radio programming on audio CD, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI’s great Creation magazine and if you're up to reading more technical scientific articles, you'll also want to subscribe to CRSQ! And to order any of our BEL science products by phone, just call us at 1-800-8Enyart (836-9278).
* Special Editions of Real Science Friday:
- RSF's famous List of Not-So-Old Things
- Bob's debate with Christian Darwinist British author James Hannam
- PZ Myers blogs against Real Science Friday so we hit back with the PZ Trochlea Challenge
- Waiting for Darwin's Other Shoe: Science mag cover: Darwin Was Wrong on the Tree of Life
- Microbiologist in Studio: Creation Research Society Quarterly editor on new genetic findings
- Caterpillar Kills Atheism: describe how a bug could evolve to liquefy itself and then build itself into a flying creature
- And see the RSF Offer of $2,000 to get 16 letters of the alphabet in their correct places; $500 paid in 1998; $1,500 in 2010...
This is the show from Friday June 10th, 2011.
[TOL Note: Within the first 15 posts below, Bob replies to Alate_One, Frayed Knot, and the Barbarian; and by the 35th post, Tom from Maybank joins in the battle! And I'm sorry to see that Jukia has been banned
and just after I gave him positive "reps" for post 4 (I appreciated his contrarian humor) but with the enormous latitude that TOL gives to those who are hostile to it's own biblical position, I imagine that Jukia earned his banishment.]SUMMARY:
* Baraminology Author in Studio: Real Science Friday interviews Dr. Roger Sanders of Bryan College. What's baraminology? It's a furtherance of Adam's first task, which was to name the animals, into a classification of living things within the framework of the created kinds as described in Genesis. The anti-creationist National Center for Science Education begrudgingly states, in an article by Alan Gishlick, that researchers, such as Dr. Sanders, "practice a form of systematics, called 'baraminology', and for creationist science it is surprisingly rigorous and internally consistent." RSF is happy to accept that compliment on behalf of creationists and reminds our audience of Bob's debate with the NCSE president Eugenie Scott that you can watch on DVD or listen to right here on Real Science Friday at KGOV.com.
* Is there a Genetic Bottleneck in Land Animals? Because a global flood destroyed almost all land animals and birds only thousands of years ago, Bob asked Dr. Sanders if marine animals have been shown to have greater genetic diversity than bird and land animals. Dr. Sanders recalled that a study done on land and marine turtles showed greater genetic diversity among sea turtles. Evolutionists believe that sea turtles evolved from land-dwelling creatures, so if evolution were true, genetically we would expect to see the opposite of what we expect to see from the perspective of a recent global flood. This Turtle Topic reminds RSF of one of our recurring themes, that the fossil records documents statis rather than evolution, as in this quote from Bob Strauss on turtle evolution: "the basic turtle body plan arose very early in the history of life (during the late Triassic period), and has persisted pretty much unchanged down to the present day... Paleontologists still haven't identified the EXACT family of prehistoric reptiles that spawned modern turtles and tortoises, but they do know one thing: it wasn't the placodonts." [RSF capitalized the letters of "exact" to call attention to this common style of the misleading use of words by evolutionists]
* Adam's First Task: "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field..." Genesis 2:19-20
[Post-show Note: Why would God's Word say that He brought the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them" if the future is exhaustively foreknown? If this topic interests you, check out the recent debate, Is the Future Settled or Open? between Bob Enyart and Dr. Larry Bray.]
* Carl Linnaeus, John Ray, and Classification: The fathers of biology and modern biological classification were creationists. The distinctions that enable the classification of living things appears itself to be poweful evidence for creation. For the groupings of biological organisms by body design distinguishes them from other groups by a discernible discontinuity. If evolution had actually happened, it happened not in descrete and enormous steps of differentiation, but by producing a seamless continuum of organisms. And just as the fossil record is missing the mountains intermediary stages that should dominate it's catalogues, so too living creatures should display widespread continuity.
* Two Classification Quotes from Creation.com: On molecular biology, "Many hoped that molecular genetics would confirm evolution. It did not. It confirms taxonomic distances between organisms, but not the postulated phylogenetic sequences. It confirmed Linnaeus, not Darwin." And about John Ray and Carl Linnaeus: "John Ray was a committed Christian and brilliant biologist of the seventeenth century—credited with defining the term ‘species’ as a group of organisms that can interbreed to form fertile offspring. Carl Linnaeus (Latin form of his Swedish name, von Linné) was responsible for founding taxonomy in the 18th century, the classification of all living things into a hierarchy, with genus and species names at the bottom. Initially, they both erred in their belief that species were fixed, that none had been lost since creation and that new species could not arise. Later in their lives, both Ray and Linnaeus made observations that caused them to modify their position to one that allowed speciation by a combination of degenerative changes and/or cross-breeding."
* Notes from Dr. Sanders Presentation at the Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship: An example of a conclusion of baraminology research is that whereas today's 10,000 species of grasses were preserved from before the flood, all 175 species of horses descended from one pair on the ark. This year the Journal of Evolutionary Biology published an article by Dr. Todd Wood who is the director of the Center for Origins Research at Bryan College where Dr. Sanders works. Evolutionists have prefaced the traditional ordering of living things with the "domain" category so that there is Domain, Kingdom, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species. The classical ordering of species has located perhaps 60% of the created kinds at the level of "Family," including for example the cat family, with other created kinds either above or below that level, with for example the water fowl created kind classified higher (class and order) and the created kind hominid Australopithecus lower, at the species level. Other interesting notes: Apparently, dandelions can become trees on islands. And scientists have genetically modified a small plant of a just few inches in height, to repress a single gene, and it has now become a wooded tree. Dogs and foxes have the same genes on different chromosomes, which probably occurred during the rapid diversification in the early post-flood period. By determining created kinds and then listing the animals mentioned in Genesis and Job (like horses, camels, wolves, donkeys, etc.), helps to determine the rate of diversification shortly after the Flood. And from Dr. Sanders' paper on a Quick Method for Developing a Cognitum System, "biologists can… identify and systematize cognita quickly… because God created organisms to be perceived by humans who were created to recognize and sort easily by "gestalt."
* Post-show Bonus: Neither the medieval world nor the church ever taught that the Earth was flat or had four corners. These Bible verses imply a spherical Earth: Job 26:10; Proverbs 8:27; Ecclesiastes 1:6; Psalm 19:6; Isaiah 40:22. And the phrase, "the four corners of the earth," is a Jewish idiom that means the entirety of the earth just as the same Hebrew words mean the entirety of a nation when used in that context, as in Ezekiel 7:2: "the four corners of the land [of Israel]."
Today’s Resource: You'll just love the science DVDs, books, and written, audio and video debates offered by Real Science Friday! So have you browsed through ourScience Department in the KGOV Store? Check out Bob most highly-recommended astronomy DVD, What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy! And see Walt Brown’s great hardcover book, In the Beginning! You’ll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez’ Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media’sUnlocking the Mystery of Life (clip)! You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart’s Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with the infamous anti-creationist Dr. Eugenie Scott. And if you have young kids or grand kids, you owe it to them and to yourself to give them as a gift the SUPERB kids' radio programming on audio CD, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI’s great Creation magazine and if you're up to reading more technical scientific articles, you'll also want to subscribe to CRSQ! And to order any of our BEL science products by phone, just call us at 1-800-8Enyart (836-9278).
* Special Editions of Real Science Friday:
- RSF's famous List of Not-So-Old Things
- Bob's debate with Christian Darwinist British author James Hannam
- PZ Myers blogs against Real Science Friday so we hit back with the PZ Trochlea Challenge
- Waiting for Darwin's Other Shoe: Science mag cover: Darwin Was Wrong on the Tree of Life
- Microbiologist in Studio: Creation Research Society Quarterly editor on new genetic findings
- Caterpillar Kills Atheism: describe how a bug could evolve to liquefy itself and then build itself into a flying creature
- And see the RSF Offer of $2,000 to get 16 letters of the alphabet in their correct places; $500 paid in 1998; $1,500 in 2010...
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