Proposed Ohio budget defunds Common Core

[musterion]

http://www.freedomworks.org/content/ohio-budget-defunds-common-core-testing

No idea how far this will get as Kasich et al evidently still support CC. But there has been talk for years in Ohio of repealing it. Before I moved out, I had the chance to ask someone (a leftist) in the admin of a local school about that. Having already downed her share of the Kommon Kore Kool-Aid, she sniffly dismissed it with "And just what do they propose to replace it with?" I dunno, lady...maybe the old Ohio standards? She also said pfft! to the "rumors" of data mining embedded in the tests' data collection, which has since been verified. She didn't outright deny it; probably not so much because it was (and is) undeniable but because - being a lefty - she really didn't see a problem with it.

 

[rexlunae]

I really do not understand why Common Core is such a problem for so many conservatives. It's a standard for education angrymob that's being adopted by many of the states angrymob::angrymob.

 

[kmoney]

I really do not understand why Common Core is such a problem for so many conservatives. It's a standard for education angrymob that's being adopted by many of the states angrymob::angrymob.

Is it a conservative thing? I thought the criticism of this stuff was more bipartisan. I see a lot about this in the news in PA but I didn't think it was all from the right.

 

[musterion]

Is it a conservative thing? I thought the criticism of this stuff was more bipartisan. I see a lot about this in the news in PA but I didn't think it was all from the right.

It isn't anymore.

 

[rocketman]

Is it a conservative thing? I thought the criticism of this stuff was more bipartisan. I see a lot about this in the news in PA but I didn't think it was all from the right.

It isn't...The federal government needs to get out of education completely, it is a state and locality issue. In fact the efforts of the federal government have been just a money pit for the American taxpayer with no dividend, its time to axe the Federal DOE & CC...there is no value added.

 

[rexlunae]

It isn't...The federal government needs to get out of education completely, it is a state and locality issue. In fact the efforts of the federal government have been just a money pit for the American taxpayer with no dividend, its time to axe the Federal DOE & CC...there is no value added.

...but since Common Core isn't a federal program, what are you talking about?

 

[kmoney]

...but since Common Core isn't a federal program, what are you talking about?

I actually thought it was too. I thought it was one of those things where the federal gov't has a program but then states have some flexibility/freedom in how they want to implement the standards. Maybe tied to NCLB or something. I did a quick lookup and it appears that isn't the case.

 

[musterion]

For all practical purposes, CC is federally controlled and has been for some time, by virtue of the money they hooked most states with.

http://americansforprosperity.org/article/its-official-the-feds-control-common-core

 

[rexlunae]

For all practical purposes, CC is federally controlled and has been for some time, by virtue of the money they hooked most states with.

http://americansforprosperity.org/article/its-official-the-feds-control-common-core

That's not true. The Race to the Top is a federal program, with federal grant funding and federal standard, which is separate from Common Core. There are 20 points available for participating in a consortium of states that is obviously a reference to CC, out of a total of 500.

https://www2.ed.gov/programs/racetothetop/scoringrubric.pdf

But it suits the ends of these libertarian and right-wing think-tanks to confuse the issue.

For another basis of comparison, here's the spending of each level of government on education:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_education_spending_20.html

Note that while all levels of government spend a lot of money, the states spend quite a bit more than the federal government. And local governments spend more than states and federal government combined. If that money buys effective control, someone's priorities are pretty wrong.

 

[rexlunae]

I actually thought it was too. I thought it was one of those things where the federal gov't has a program but then states have some flexibility/freedom in how they want to implement the standards. Maybe tied to NCLB or something. I did a quick lookup and it appears that isn't the case.

It's actually entirely a program that the states have been developing for quite some time. The federal government isn't directly involved, although obviously various programs like The Race to the Top and No Child Left Behind have an impact, these are really quite separate. The confusion is, it seems, a deliberate attempt to wind up the people who are scared of the gubment on the part of cynical political operators. The fact of the matter is that these federal program could be changed, expanded, or repealed, and it would have little impact on Common Core because Common Core is controlled by the states.

 

[HisServant]

It's actually entirely a program that the states have been developing for quite some time. The federal government isn't directly involved, although obviously various programs like The Race to the Top and No Child Left Behind have an impact, these are really quite separate. The confusion is, it seems, a deliberate attempt to wind up the people who are scared of the gubment on the part of cynical political operators. The fact of the matter is that these federal program could be changed, expanded, or repealed, and it would have little impact on Common Core because Common Core is controlled by the states.

I think most peoples objection to a lot of the common core, especially math, is that it is not taught in a manner that is so foreign to the parents which make their roles as parents/tutors a lot tougher than previous generations... for me, after helping my grandkids, I understand most of the new methodologies, but to be honest, solving simple equations were made a LOT more difficult, to the point where it is pretty much impossible for kids to do basic math in their heads anymore.

Then there was the controversial statement from one of the designers of Common Core where he stated that he designed it that way so remove parental help from homework and to make all the kids in class have an even playing field when they entered school.

Basically, he tried to remove the advantages that good parents would have in preparing their kids for school... so they would be on par with parents that could care less about their kids.

 

[rexlunae]

I think most peoples objection to a lot of the common core, especially math, is that it is not taught in a manner that is so foreign to the parents which make their roles as parents/tutors a lot tougher than previous generations... for me, after helping my grandkids, I understand most of the new methodologies, but to be honest, solving simple equations were made a LOT more difficult, to the point where it is pretty much impossible for kids to do basic math in their heads anymore.

I would bet that quite a bit of research has gone into those methodologies, to determine what works best for the most people. Certainly, Common Core is based on extensive research. But Common Core doesn't even control how subjects are taught. Common Core establishes generally what must be learned, but it doesn't actually say how. That's left to teachers, school districts, other standards, etc.

http://www.corestandards.org/about-the-standards/myths-vs-facts/

Then there was the controversial statement from one of the designers of Common Core where he stated that he designed it that way so remove parental help from homework and to make all the kids in class have an even playing field when they entered school.

It's pretty hard for me to take that very seriously, because there is so much deliberate disinformation out there about Common Core. This mania has been so severe that right-wing presidential candidates have vowed to end a federal program that does not exist. I wouldn't judge the comment without the original quote in hand.

Basically, he tried to remove the advantages that good parents would have in preparing their kids for school... so they would be on par with parents that could care less about their kids.

Shouldn't education work for kids regardless of who their parents are? It seems like if there's a huge advantage for kids with certain parents, we should be trying to figure out how to prevent the disadvantage for the other kids.

 

[rexlunae]

Here's a thought exercise, for any who's game. In the coming election, there will be maybe two dozen or more people seeking the GOP nomination. Certainly Common Core will be discussed. Every time one of these candidates says that CC is a federal program, every time they vow to end it, every time they describe it as a federal takeover of education, remind yourself that one of the two following must be true:

1. This candidate is lying to me deliberately.
2. This candidate doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[kmoney]

Here's a thought exercise drinking game, for any who's game. In the coming election, there will be maybe two dozen or more people seeking the GOP nomination. Certainly Common Core will be discussed. Every time one of these candidates says that CC is a federal program, every time they vow to end it, every time they describe it as a federal takeover of education, remind yourself that one of the two following must be true:

1. This candidate is lying to me deliberately.
2. This candidate doesn't know what they're talking about.

Fixed that for you. :cheers:

 

[kmoney]

I would bet that quite a bit of research has gone into those methodologies, to determine what works best for the most people. Certainly, Common Core is based on extensive research. But Common Core doesn't even control how subjects are taught. Common Core establishes generally what must be learned, but it doesn't actually say how. That's left to teachers, school districts, other standards, etc.

http://www.corestandards.org/about-the-standards/myths-vs-facts/

I've heard the same things about math but I haven't seen it myself. Perhaps it isn't a requirement but it seems like there is at least a recommended teaching method that is in widespread use.

 

[rexlunae]

I've heard the same things about math but I haven't seen it myself. Perhaps it isn't a requirement but it seems like there is at least a recommended teaching method that is in widespread use.

Teaching methods don't vary a lot between states. Most textbooks are targeted at just a few markets (Texas, California, New York), and the other states usually just use the same books. But that isn't Common Core either, and it's unlikely that even the states rejecting Common Core will change fundamentally how these subjects are taught in their own classrooms.