Originally posted by bob b
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo
Really? I thought Jesus was the foundation.
Jesus is the rock. He validated scripture, including Genesis. His validation of the reality of the first man and women needs to be believed for if we are only physically transformed apes then we would not be sinners and need redemption in order to live with God.
As I am sure you know "adam" means "humankind."
Paul said that Adam was the first man. It is logically necessary for there to have been a first man and woman.
The point of the Adam and Eve story is to reveal that humankind is fallen and in need of repentance and restoration. Bob, try a thought experiment. If the literalistic interpretation of Adam and Eve as the first two people is not accurate and the story of evolution is more accurate, that is that we humans descended from a population of so-called non-humans, then is what we observe as the fallenness of humanity a mere illusion because we can't pin it down on Adam and Eve?
Genesis, as well as many other books in the Bible, says that we are sinners because of the disobedience of the parents of humanity. You engage in what the Bible refers to as "private interpretation".
In other words, the recognition of the reality of the human condition does not depend on the recognition of a literalistic interpretation of Genesis, or even a knowledge that Genesis even exists. Recall Romans 1.
Correct, but Genesis explains the
cause of the condition, whereas you are talking about the recognition of its reality.
Therefore, the necessity and purpose of the incarnation does not depend on your literalisitc interpretation of Genesis.
Unfortunately for your case it does. Most people believe they only have to live a good life to be saved. They do not recognize that they are inherently sinful and can not "earn" salvation by themselves. This is basic to Christian theology, which is why Genesis is the foundation of Christian theology.
Of course people can be saved without understanding or reading Genesis, but what Paul said about being saved is clearly based on Genesis and Adam and hence is why I say that Genesis is the foundation of Christian theology.
I thought repentance was the first step.
Repentence is the 2nd step for if a person does not understand that they
need repentence then why would they repent?
But what about... "Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
Is that true? Jesus said it so it must be true, right? I guess we all better get busy hating our parents so we can be disciples of Jesus.
Not being sufficiently acquainted with the OT is a handicap for understanding the new.
Gen 29:30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.
31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
Theologians have known for millenia that Jacob did not actually hate Leah for this is clearly a figure of speech in the Eastern approach of using exaggerated language to emphasize a point.
Jacob's love for Leah was, compared to his great love for Rachel, to be considered hatred comparatively speaking.
Jesus himself used such exaggerated speech (camel/needle?), and as a result we never forget what he said.
Naturally we are not commanded to literally hate our parents, but compared to our love for God our love for any human being is comparatively speaking hatred.
I urge you to read the Bible with a deeper understanding, motivated first by your love for Jesus, but also a love for His Word.
