ECT Pentecost DONE FOR ??

DAN P

Well-known member
Hi and Pentecost , was never completed and Rom 11:8 is just another verse that says why it FAILED , along with GLOSSA /TONGUES , VISONS and the gift of KNOWLEDGE STOPPED as Recorded in 1 Cor 13:8!

Rom 11:8 reads , " Just as it Has Been Written " God has gave them a spirit of STUPOR , EYES to see NOT and EARS to hear Not , UNTIL THIS DAY , that has continued for some 2000 years .

God has given this STUPOR , back in Isaiah time , Isa 6:6-10 and that LYING KJV is Lying for I can speak in Tongues is your proof against those 2 verses , is that right ??

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
This is very confused , DanP.

When I talk about the tongues being a sign to people in Judaism who were not beleivers, I'm referring to what Paul quoted from Isaiah in I Cor 14.

Do you see what it says?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
This is very confused , DanP.

When I talk about the tongues being a sign to people in Judaism who were not beleivers, I'm referring to what Paul quoted from Isaiah in I Cor 14.

Do you see what it says?


Hi and what verse IF any are you referring to in 1 Cor 14 ?

dan p
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Hi and Pentecost , was never completed and Rom 11:8 is just another verse that says why it FAILED , along with GLOSSA /TONGUES , VISONS and the gift of KNOWLEDGE STOPPED as Recorded in 1 Cor 13:8!

Rom 11:8 reads , " Just as it Has Been Written " God has gave them a spirit of STUPOR , EYES to see NOT and EARS to hear Not , UNTIL THIS DAY , that has continued for some 2000 years .

God has given this STUPOR , back in Isaiah time , Isa 6:6-10 and that LYING KJV is Lying for I can speak in Tongues is your proof against those 2 verses , is that right ??

dan p

Doesn't say they have stopped. It says they will stop, future tense.
 

HisServant

New member
Gifts come and go... if God sees a need for that type of revival.. I'm sure something like Pentecost could happen again.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Doesn't say they have stopped. It says they will stop, future tense.


Hi and good to see you checking 1 Cor 13:8 as 4 verbs in that verse and 3 of those verbs are in the FUTURE TENSE !!

Charity never Faileth- in the Present Tense , speaks to Continuous action !

Prophecies SHALL fail = in the Future tense !

They SHALL cease = in the Future Tense !~

It SHALL vanish = in the Future Tense !!

These 3 gifts will come back during the last part of the Great Tribulatiom as referenced in Mark 16:15-18 and Pentecost is coming back !!

dan p
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
When we SEE Him, we will be LIKE Him, because we'll see Him as He is. Until then: all we have is knowledge about Him. We can know Him, personally; hear His Voice; walk with Him and even obey His Commands... we cannot see Him in this life. Moses saw the mere residue of Him having walked past Him and had to cover his face for 40 days and nights because no one could bear the glory that emanated from his face. Knowledge will cease (along with prophecy and tongues) when we SEE Him. Until then: God's Gifts abide in His Body.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
When we SEE Him, we will be LIKE Him, because we'll see Him as He is. Until then: all we have is knowledge about Him. We can know Him, personally; hear His Voice; walk with Him and even obey His Commands... we cannot see Him in this life. Moses saw the mere residue of Him having walked past Him and had to cover his face for 40 days and nights because no one could bear the glory that emanated from his face. Knowledge will cease (along with prophecy and tongues) when we SEE Him. Until then: God's Gifts abide in His Body.


Hi and at one time I was a Pentecostal , and as teen , was always fearful of my salvation !!

What many see , is that if you believe in Acts 2 and Pentecost , you never do BLOOD sacrifices NOR keep the 613 Laws of Moses , do you ?

dan p
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Hi and at one time I was a Pentecostal , and as teen , was always fearful of my salvation !!
If you fear God, you don't have any need to fear for your salvation, since Jesus said He'd always be with you. The fear of God is merely the beginning of wisdom.
What many see , is that if you believe in Acts 2 and Pentecost , you never do BLOOD sacrifices NOR keep the 613 Laws of Moses , do you ?
Could you please explain your reasoning? I don't get it.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
If you fear God, you don't have any need to fear for your salvation, since Jesus said He'd always be with you. The fear of God is merely the beginning of wisdom.Could you please explain your reasoning? I don't get it.


Hi and If you read my OP , my folks alway took me to church , which was either a Foursquare or and Assembly of God ,

Even I saw my mother speak in so-called tongues , which later , she said it was FAKE !

All pentecoals have fear of Losing their salvation , except those that claim Sinless Perfection !

Eph 2:8 is an OSAS verse , without exception and you can forget TONGUES , BAPTISM , AND REPENTANCE !

DAN P
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
O.S.A.S. isn't in Scripture. Beware, when you think you stand, lest you fall. Anyone can fall, from any level. Those who are on The Path of Life are on their way to Heaven, but anyone can stray from God, turn their back upon Him and lose their salvation. Fearing and living in fear are choices. I don't know anyone who 'fears' losing their salvation. I do know plenty fools who 'think' OSAS is true. :duh:

I also know many who believe that tongues are from Satan. God gets glory from those who give Him glory, whether you believe or not is up to you. Charity believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things and never fails. I believe. God's Gifts are in His Body. You can accept or reject whatever you wish, but He still gives gifts to those who seek Him.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
O.S.A.S. isn't in Scripture. Beware, when you think you stand, lest you fall. Anyone can fall, from any level. Those who are on The Path of Life are on their way to Heaven, but anyone can stray from God, turn their back upon Him and lose their salvation. Fearing and living in fear are choices. I don't know anyone who 'fears' losing their salvation. I do know plenty fools who 'think' OSAS is true. :duh:

I also know many who believe that tongues are from Satan. God gets glory from those who give Him glory, whether you believe or not is up to you. Charity believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things and never fails. I believe. God's Gifts are in His Body. You can accept or reject whatever you wish, but He still gives gifts to those who seek Him.


Hi and in Gal 3:28 it says that " we ARE / ESTE " in Christ Jesus .

Since " ARE / ESTE " is in the Present Tenses of CONTINUOUS ACTION for ever be "in Christ " means OSAS !!

Better understand your bible or go to bible school !!:bang::bang:

dan p
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Those who are of the household of faith ARE in Christ. It does not say (imply or even infer) that once you are 'in Christ' that you cannot fall away. No verse does. O.S.A.S. is extraneous to The Holy Bible.
 

kayaker

New member
Hi and Pentecost , was never completed and Rom 11:8 is just another verse that says why it FAILED , along with GLOSSA /TONGUES , VISONS and the gift of KNOWLEDGE STOPPED as Recorded in 1 Cor 13:8!

Rom 11:8 reads , " Just as it Has Been Written " God has gave them a spirit of STUPOR , EYES to see NOT and EARS to hear Not , UNTIL THIS DAY , that has continued for some 2000 years .

God has given this STUPOR , back in Isaiah time , Isa 6:6-10 and that LYING KJV is Lying for I can speak in Tongues is your proof against those 2 verses , is that right ??

dan p

Hey Dan...
I appreciate your mention of Romans 11:8 KJV. And, to some extent I can see some association with Pentecost Acts 2. You brought forth Isaiah 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10 as clearly associated with Romans 11:8 KJV. Jesus also mentioned those verses (speaking exclusively to His disciples about multitude/believers, Matthew 13:10, 11), in Isaiah in Matthew 13:14 KJV, Matthew 13:15 KJV. In v. 15, Jesus said they (multitude/believers) were made deaf and blind "lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and should hear with their ears, and should be CONVERTED, and I should heal them." Jesus went on to tell His disciples, "But blessed are your eyes (disciples), for they see: and your ears (disciples), for they hear " (Matthew 13:16 KJV) with accolade extended in Matthew 13:17 KJV.

One most specific place I find where believers (John 8:30 KJV) were "converted" (Matthew 13:15 KJV) into Jesus' "disciples indeed" was in John 8:31 KJV where 'believers' became Jesus' "disciples indeed" knowing "...the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32 KJV). Said "truth" is found in that dialogue being the testimonies of these two divine witnesses (John 8:18 KJV) corroborating Jesus' divine origin (John 8:12 KJV). Jesus' divine origin was challenged in John 8:13, 19, 25, and even inherently in John 8:41 KJV. Cutting to the chase, those two testimonies are found in John 8:38 KJV being Jesus' testimony to His divine origin; and, John 8:40 KJV being God's testimony to Jesus divine origin. Jesus heard something from God that even Abraham didn't hear.

You say "the gift of KNOWLEDGE STOPPED" according to 1Corinthians 13:8 KJV. Well, for the life of me... I've neither found a single soul who can offer explicit and succinct details of what JESUS SAW WITH HIS EYES when He was with His Father (John 8:38 KJV), nor can I find a single soul who can offer explicit and succinct details of what JESUS HEARD WITH HIS EARS from God that even Abraham didn't hear (John 8:40 KJV).

So, I can certainly grasp the notion of 1Corinthians 13:8 regarding the gift of knowledge has stopped. Clearly there were those in His day who became Jesus' "disciples indeed." I can only assume a disciple today could render such explicit and succinct details of those two testimonies (John 8:38 KJV, John 8:40 KJV).

There were those mockers at Pentecost (Acts 2:13 KJV) who clearly heard the Pentecostal Gospel as did everyone else. I suggest those mockers just wrote the Holy Ghost inspired Pentecostal Gospel off as bodacious drunk talk. Undoubtedly, there were those hearers who carried that Pentecostal Gospel forward. Likewise, there were those mockers whose endeavor was to destroy and/or distort that Gospel. Pentecost was neither a complete failure, nor was it a complete success... as you allude, Romans 11:8 KJV comes into play corroborating Jesus' mention in Matthew 13:14 KJV, both corroborating Isaiah 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10. This left the door open for the Holy Spirit as found in John 14:16, 17, 25, 26.

kayaker
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Those who are of the household of faith ARE in Christ. It does not say (imply or even infer) that once you are 'in Christ' that you cannot fall away. No verse does. O.S.A.S. is extraneous to The Holy Bible.


Hi and if you are not believing Gal 3:28 , THAN the KJV is LYING again as " will be saved " IS in the Future Tense , in the last 2000 years and counting !!:deadhorse::deadhorse:

Then we can than be un-justified , un-reconciled , un-sealed ETC !!

Where is your Un-salvation , un-saved verse ??

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Hey Dan...
I appreciate your mention of Romans 11:8 KJV. And, to some extent I can see some association with Pentecost Acts 2. You brought forth Isaiah 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10 as clearly associated with Romans 11:8 KJV. Jesus also mentioned those verses (speaking exclusively to His disciples about multitude/believers, Matthew 13:10, 11), in Isaiah in Matthew 13:14 KJV, Matthew 13:15 KJV. In v. 15, Jesus said they (multitude/believers) were made deaf and blind "lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and should hear with their ears, and should be CONVERTED, and I should heal them." Jesus went on to tell His disciples, "But blessed are your eyes (disciples), for they see: and your ears (disciples), for they hear " (Matthew 13:16 KJV) with accolade extended in Matthew 13:17 KJV.

One most specific place I find where believers (John 8:30 KJV) were "converted" (Matthew 13:15 KJV) into Jesus' "disciples indeed" was in John 8:31 KJV where 'believers' became Jesus' "disciples indeed" knowing "...the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32 KJV). Said "truth" is found in that dialogue being the testimonies of these two divine witnesses (John 8:18 KJV) corroborating Jesus' divine origin (John 8:12 KJV). Jesus' divine origin was challenged in John 8:13, 19, 25, and even inherently in John 8:41 KJV. Cutting to the chase, those two testimonies are found in John 8:38 KJV being Jesus' testimony to His divine origin; and, John 8:40 KJV being God's testimony to Jesus divine origin. Jesus heard something from God that even Abraham didn't hear.

You say "the gift of KNOWLEDGE STOPPED" according to 1Corinthians 13:8 KJV. Well, for the life of me... I've neither found a single soul who can offer explicit and succinct details of what JESUS SAW WITH HIS EYES when He was with His Father (John 8:38 KJV), nor can I find a single soul who can offer explicit and succinct details of what JESUS HEARD WITH HIS EARS from God that even Abraham didn't hear (John 8:40 KJV).

So, I can certainly grasp the notion of 1Corinthians 13:8 regarding the gift of knowledge has stopped. Clearly there were those in His day who became Jesus' "disciples indeed." I can only assume a disciple today could render such explicit and succinct details of those two testimonies (John 8:38 KJV, John 8:40 KJV).

There were those mockers at Pentecost (Acts 2:13 KJV) who clearly heard the Pentecostal Gospel as did everyone else. I suggest those mockers just wrote the Holy Ghost inspired Pentecostal Gospel off as bodacious drunk talk. Undoubtedly, there were those hearers who carried that Pentecostal Gospel forward. Likewise, there were those mockers whose endeavor was to destroy and/or distort that Gospel. Pentecost was neither a complete failure, nor was it a complete success... as you allude, Romans 11:8 KJV comes into play corroborating Jesus' mention in Matthew 13:14 KJV, both corroborating Isaiah 6:6, 7, 8, 9, 10. This left the door open for the Holy Spirit as found in John 14:16, 17, 25, 26.

kayaker


Hi and I could have said more on Rom 11:8 , like " IT IS WRITTEN "

is in the Greek Perfect Tense , Passive Voice , and in the Indicatice Mood of FACT !!

Which means that when written in the Past time , it means CONTINUOUS ACTION and this phrase can be found more than once .

The verb " SEE " is in the Present Tense and means that all can see the CONTINUOUS action of that Blindness , for over 2000 years .
Where do you disagree , if you do ?

dan p
 

Danoh

New member
When we SEE Him, we will be LIKE Him, because we'll see Him as He is. Until then: all we have is knowledge about Him. We can know Him, personally; hear His Voice; walk with Him and even obey His Commands... we cannot see Him in this life. Moses saw the mere residue of Him having walked past Him and had to cover his face for 40 days and nights because no one could bear the glory that emanated from his face. Knowledge will cease (along with prophecy and tongues) when we SEE Him. Until then: God's Gifts abide in His Body.

John 1:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 17:

24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the
world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

2 Peter 1:

15. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1 John 1:

1. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2. [For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;]

1 John 3:

1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The world does not know them as sons of God, just as the world had not known the Son, in its unbelief.

They are now the sons of God, but await its manifestation before an unbelieving world - it does not yet appear that way to the world what they shall be.

He is relating that they know that when He shall appear they shall be like Him, for they shall see Him as He is - as John and his fellow apostles had been eyewitnesses of His majesty.

The world did not see Him as He is.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Paul also says he didn't really know what the Christ event was about, too. That's in 2 Cor 5 where he says we knew him in the ordinary sense, but we now know that God was in Christ reconciling the world.
 

Danoh

New member
Paul also says he didn't really know what the Christ event was about, too. That's in 2 Cor 5 where he says we knew him in the ordinary sense, but we now know that God was in Christ reconciling the world.

That is not the sense of what Paul is saying at all. You need to quit reasoning into the passages and instead allow them to take captive your every thought to their own, obvious reasoning>

2 Corinthians 5:

12. For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13. For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The issue thus far is those who glory in appearance; who focus on the outer and not on the inward man; make the flesh the issue.

He then adds to that, that in fact ["yea"], just as...

16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

We don't even know Him after the flesh anymore - the Jesus of Matthew thru John.

For the flesh is not the issue. For...

17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

There is much more there, and many other passages; as this "after the flesh" was the Corinthians main problem.

But hopefully this will cause you to at least will chew on how you might approach the study of the passages not only - through the passages [plural] - but properly.
 
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