ECT One verse doctrines and made up doctrines.

[preacherman57]

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
Just to clarify, I am a believer, but have nothing to do with and oppose what is called 'Evangelicalism." First, the words, Evangelicalism, Evangelicals are nowhere to be found in the original Hebrew or Greek texts and there is not one English translation that uses those words. The word "Evangelical" was coined by Spurgeon. Yet, his intent was to apply the term to actual believers, which is not the reality today.
Second, Evangelicalism is false Christianity. In the world of Evangelicalism many, many lies are taught and believed.
I personally do not care if you agree or disagree with what I post. I wont debate or argue with anyone who starts a statement with, "I think, I believe, I feel, I know, I sense, in my spirit, the spirit tells me, God/Jesus told me, I had a dream/vision,or My preacher says..."
I actually study scripture and there are some ground rules that must be followed in any discussion of biblical things:
1. Any claim that something is biblical must be backed up by actual verses. There is not one biblical doctrine (Teaching, instruction, command) that does not have a number of verses validating what is said.

2. You must be able to show me a verse(s)
that actually use words that validate a statement. For example, one of the Evangelicals favorite catch-phrases is,
"Be the hands and feet of Jesus." While you may personally believe that, you would not be able to show me even one verse where the words, "Be the hands and feet of Jesus," are used. That is one of the problems in the Evangelical world. People believe what they want the bible to say instead of believing what the bible actually does say.
3. Any doctrine that applies to believers today must be found in both Testaments. Jesus did not come to start something "new" for the Gentiles. The English word "Church" is not the correct translation of "ekklesia" in Mat 16:18. The word "Church" is not even a bad translation. It is not a transliteration. It is a word that has nothing to do with Gentile believers. It was forced into the translation in order to enforce the idea of a hierarchy, whereas the religious leaders were superior over lay people, they were the only "qualified" interpreters of Scripture and had rule over people. Look it up for yourselves. Who was Jesus talking to when He said, " I will build...?" Nicodemus, a Jew. From the very beginning until the end of time, God has set it up in that the Gentiles were to be grafted into the Kingdom. Jesus did not "start" some type of Gentile "Church" that would be used to bring the Jews back into the Kingdom. Everything Jesus taught, Paul taught, John taught, Peter taught" James and Jude taught were all based on the Old Testament. Jesus only said "a new commandment I give unto you" one time John 13:34,
4. All words must be looked at from the original languages, the definition of the original words and with the proper context.

If anybody follows these ground rules, I will discuss any biblical topic.

2Pet 3:16 perfectly describes what the Evangelical preachers are doing. The status quo is:
1. Verses are twisted and perverted.
2. They add to and take away from God's word.
3. They isolate verses and treat them as if one verse or a passage teaches a doctrine.
4. They lie about word definitions. One grand example is when they teach that "meek" means "power under control." NO IT DOESN'T! Look it up yourselves. It means "humble", no more, no less
5. They spiritualize anything they want to,
"The storms in your life," " The giants in your life," etc.
6. They use selective verses to validate what they say instead of showing everything that the bible says about a topic.
7. They teach literal things as symbolic and symbolic things as literal.
8. They have no knowledge of the Jewish figures of speech used and miss the meaning.
9.They treat the parables as if they are true stories.

'Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a common catch-phrase in the Evangelical world. It is taught to mean that when a believer dies, the spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with Jesus. It is said so often and with such conviction that people assume it must be a verse or phrase found in the bible. Entire sermons and semon series are put together to teach that when a believer dies. . i cannot even imagine the number of funerals where this phrase is stated.
There is only one, teeny problem. "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is not a verse found in the word of God. It is not a phrase located within a verse. In the entire bible, not one writer wrote down those words. There is not even a hint of "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," ever being spoken by any person recorded in the bible.
The phrase is just one example of many, many lies being taught and believed in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of how man-made traditions are abundent in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of the Evangelical preachers refusal to study. It is just one example that shows the Evangelical preachers do not know how to, or even care to do any type of honest study. It is just one example of the lack of knowledge among the Evangelical pew warmers who are so simple minded that they swallow hook, line and sinker anything a Evangelical preacher tells them. It is just another example of how the pew warmers will not bother to even check out anything they they are told. It is just another example of how gullible, niave and without a lick if discernment the pew warmers are. It shows how what the bible prophesied, tons of false teachers and the huge number of those who desire false teaching instead of bible truth.
"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a twisted perversion of 2Cor 5:8

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

You see? That verse does not teach, Absent from the body.. " This verse has been corrupted. I could tell somebody that "Paul taught that believers would rather be with the Lord rather than be alive here on earth," and them show the verse, thus validating what I am teaching. Nobody can teach that when believers die, their spirit goes to be with Jesus. They can say it a million times, but they can't show even one verse that validates what they are saying.

I have not been able to track down when and who started, 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord." I wonder if some Evangelical preacher had read,1Cor 5:3 some time ago and by using his own imagination and practicing a method of false teaching, came up with "Absent from the body..."
But, more important is the fact that any Evangelical preacher today, in the past or in the future, who teaches "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," and that it means that the believers spirit goes to be with Jesus immediately after death, are
teaching a LIE. THEY ARE LYING. What do you call a person who claims to teach bible truth, but teaches lies about what the bible states? A False teacher.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

 

[Interplanner]

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
Just to clarify, I am a believer, but have nothing to do with and oppose what is called 'Evangelicalism." First, the words, Evangelicalism, Evangelicals are nowhere to be found in the original Hebrew or Greek texts and there is not one English translation that uses those words. The word "Evangelical" was coined by Spurgeon. Yet, his intent was to apply the term to actual believers, which is not the reality today.
Second, Evangelicalism is false Christianity. In the world of Evangelicalism many, many lies are taught and believed.
I personally do not care if you agree or disagree with what I post. I wont debate or argue with anyone who starts a statement with, "I think, I believe, I feel, I know, I sense, in my spirit, the spirit tells me, God/Jesus told me, I had a dream/vision,or My preacher says..."
I actually study scripture and there are some ground rules that must be followed in any discussion of biblical things:
1. Any claim that something is biblical must be backed up by actual verses. There is not one biblical doctrine (Teaching, instruction, command) that does not have a number of verses validating what is said.

2. You must be able to show me a verse(s)
that actually use words that validate a statement. For example, one of the Evangelicals favorite catch-phrases is,
"Be the hands and feet of Jesus." While you may personally believe that, you would not be able to show me even one verse where the words, "Be the hands and feet of Jesus," are used. That is one of the problems in the Evangelical world. People believe what they want the bible to say instead of believing what the bible actually does say.
3. Any doctrine that applies to believers today must be found in both Testaments. Jesus did not come to start something "new" for the Gentiles. The English word "Church" is not the correct translation of "ekklesia" in Mat 16:18. The word "Church" is not even a bad translation. It is not a transliteration. It is a word that has nothing to do with Gentile believers. It was forced into the translation in order to enforce the idea of a hierarchy, whereas the religious leaders were superior over lay people, they were the only "qualified" interpreters of Scripture and had rule over people. Look it up for yourselves. Who was Jesus talking to when He said, " I will build...?" Nicodemus, a Jew. From the very beginning until the end of time, God has set it up in that the Gentiles were to be grafted into the Kingdom. Jesus did not "start" some type of Gentile "Church" that would be used to bring the Jews back into the Kingdom. Everything Jesus taught, Paul taught, John taught, Peter taught" James and Jude taught were all based on the Old Testament. Jesus only said "a new commandment I give unto you" one time John 13:34,
4. All words must be looked at from the original languages, the definition of the original words and with the proper context.

If anybody follows these ground rules, I will discuss any biblical topic.

2Pet 3:16 perfectly describes what the Evangelical preachers are doing. The status quo is:
1. Verses are twisted and perverted.
2. They add to and take away from God's word.
3. They isolate verses and treat them as if one verse or a passage teaches a doctrine.
4. They lie about word definitions. One grand example is when they teach that "meek" means "power under control." NO IT DOESN'T! Look it up yourselves. It means "humble", no more, no less
5. They spiritualize anything they want to,
"The storms in your life," " The giants in your life," etc.
6. They use selective verses to validate what they say instead of showing everything that the bible says about a topic.
7. They teach literal things as symbolic and symbolic things as literal.
8. They have no knowledge of the Jewish figures of speech used and miss the meaning.
9.They treat the parables as if they are true stories.

'Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a common catch-phrase in the Evangelical world. It is taught to mean that when a believer dies, the spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with Jesus. It is said so often and with such conviction that people assume it must be a verse or phrase found in the bible. Entire sermons and semon series are put together to teach that when a believer dies. . i cannot even imagine the number of funerals where this phrase is stated.
There is only one, teeny problem. "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is not a verse found in the word of God. It is not a phrase located within a verse. In the entire bible, not one writer wrote down those words. There is not even a hint of "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," ever being spoken by any person recorded in the bible.
The phrase is just one example of many, many lies being taught and believed in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of how man-made traditions are abundent in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of the Evangelical preachers refusal to study. It is just one example that shows the Evangelical preachers do not know how to, or even care to do any type of honest study. It is just one example of the lack of knowledge among the Evangelical pew warmers who are so simple minded that they swallow hook, line and sinker anything a Evangelical preacher tells them. It is just another example of how the pew warmers will not bother to even check out anything they they are told. It is just another example of how gullible, niave and without a lick if discernment the pew warmers are. It shows how what the bible prophesied, tons of false teachers and the huge number of those who desire false teaching instead of bible truth.
"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a twisted perversion of 2Cor 5:8

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

You see? That verse does not teach, Absent from the body.. " This verse has been corrupted. I could tell somebody that "Paul taught that believers would rather be with the Lord rather than be alive here on earth," and them show the verse, thus validating what I am teaching. Nobody can teach that when believers die, their spirit goes to be with Jesus. They can say it a million times, but they can't show even one verse that validates what they are saying.

I have not been able to track down when and who started, 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord." I wonder if some Evangelical preacher had read,1Cor 5:3 some time ago and by using his own imagination and practicing a method of false teaching, came up with "Absent from the body..."
But, more important is the fact that any Evangelical preacher today, in the past or in the future, who teaches "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," and that it means that the believers spirit goes to be with Jesus immediately after death, are
teaching a LIE. THEY ARE LYING. What do you call a person who claims to teach bible truth, but teaches lies about what the bible states? A False teacher.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

'Ekklesia' is from 'to call.' God calls people into fellowship in Christ. It is not by race or nation or ancestry. That group, who believe, are believers or Christians.

 

[DAN P]

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
Just to clarify, I am a believer, but have nothing to do with and oppose what is called 'Evangelicalism." First, the words, Evangelicalism, Evangelicals are nowhere to be found in the original Hebrew or Greek texts and there is not one English translation that uses those words. The word "Evangelical" was coined by Spurgeon. Yet, his intent was to apply the term to actual believers, which is not the reality today.
Second, Evangelicalism is false Christianity. In the world of Evangelicalism many, many lies are taught and believed.
I personally do not care if you agree or disagree with what I post. I wont debate or argue with anyone who starts a statement with, "I think, I believe, I feel, I know, I sense, in my spirit, the spirit tells me, God/Jesus told me, I had a dream/vision,or My preacher says..."
I actually study scripture and there are some ground rules that must be followed in any discussion of biblical things:
1. Any claim that something is biblical must be backed up by actual verses. There is not one biblical doctrine (Teaching, instruction, command) that does not have a number of verses validating what is said.

2. You must be able to show me a verse(s)
that actually use words that validate a statement. For example, one of the Evangelicals favorite catch-phrases is,
"Be the hands and feet of Jesus." While you may personally believe that, you would not be able to show me even one verse where the words, "Be the hands and feet of Jesus," are used. That is one of the problems in the Evangelical world. People believe what they want the bible to say instead of believing what the bible actually does say.
3. Any doctrine that applies to believers today must be found in both Testaments. Jesus did not come to start something "new" for the Gentiles. The English word "Church" is not the correct translation of "ekklesia" in Mat 16:18. The word "Church" is not even a bad translation. It is not a transliteration. It is a word that has nothing to do with Gentile believers. It was forced into the translation in order to enforce the idea of a hierarchy, whereas the religious leaders were superior over lay people, they were the only "qualified" interpreters of Scripture and had rule over people. Look it up for yourselves. Who was Jesus talking to when He said, " I will build...?" Nicodemus, a Jew. From the very beginning until the end of time, God has set it up in that the Gentiles were to be grafted into the Kingdom. Jesus did not "start" some type of Gentile "Church" that would be used to bring the Jews back into the Kingdom. Everything Jesus taught, Paul taught, John taught, Peter taught" James and Jude taught were all based on the Old Testament. Jesus only said "a new commandment I give unto you" one time John 13:34,
4. All words must be looked at from the original languages, the definition of the original words and with the proper context.

If anybody follows these ground rules, I will discuss any biblical topic.

2Pet 3:16 perfectly describes what the Evangelical preachers are doing. The status quo is:
1. Verses are twisted and perverted.
2. They add to and take away from God's word.
3. They isolate verses and treat them as if one verse or a passage teaches a doctrine.
4. They lie about word definitions. One grand example is when they teach that "meek" means "power under control." NO IT DOESN'T! Look it up yourselves. It means "humble", no more, no less
5. They spiritualize anything they want to,
"The storms in your life," " The giants in your life," etc.
6. They use selective verses to validate what they say instead of showing everything that the bible says about a topic.
7. They teach literal things as symbolic and symbolic things as literal.
8. They have no knowledge of the Jewish figures of speech used and miss the meaning.
9.They treat the parables as if they are true stories.

'Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a common catch-phrase in the Evangelical world. It is taught to mean that when a believer dies, the spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with Jesus. It is said so often and with such conviction that people assume it must be a verse or phrase found in the bible. Entire sermons and semon series are put together to teach that when a believer dies. . i cannot even imagine the number of funerals where this phrase is stated.
There is only one, teeny problem. "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is not a verse found in the word of God. It is not a phrase located within a verse. In the entire bible, not one writer wrote down those words. There is not even a hint of "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," ever being spoken by any person recorded in the bible.
The phrase is just one example of many, many lies being taught and believed in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of how man-made traditions are abundent in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of the Evangelical preachers refusal to study. It is just one example that shows the Evangelical preachers do not know how to, or even care to do any type of honest study. It is just one example of the lack of knowledge among the Evangelical pew warmers who are so simple minded that they swallow hook, line and sinker anything a Evangelical preacher tells them. It is just another example of how the pew warmers will not bother to even check out anything they they are told. It is just another example of how gullible, niave and without a lick if discernment the pew warmers are. It shows how what the bible prophesied, tons of false teachers and the huge number of those who desire false teaching instead of bible truth.
"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a twisted perversion of 2Cor 5:8

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

You see? That verse does not teach, Absent from the body.. " This verse has been corrupted. I could tell somebody that "Paul taught that believers would rather be with the Lord rather than be alive here on earth," and them show the verse, thus validating what I am teaching. Nobody can teach that when believers die, their spirit goes to be with Jesus. They can say it a million times, but they can't show even one verse that validates what they are saying.

I have not been able to track down when and who started, 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord." I wonder if some Evangelical preacher had read,1Cor 5:3 some time ago and by using his own imagination and practicing a method of false teaching, came up with "Absent from the body..."
But, more important is the fact that any Evangelical preacher today, in the past or in the future, who teaches "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," and that it means that the believers spirit goes to be with Jesus immediately after death, are
teaching a LIE. THEY ARE LYING. What do you call a person who claims to teach bible truth, but teaches lies about what the bible states? A False teacher.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

Hi and I use a translation of the kjv and it is translated , using the word ABSENT !!

And I have a translated KJV that does not use the word ABSENT and uses the word TO BE AT HOME / EKDEMEO

and EKDEMEO is translated , EMIGRATE , DEPART , QUIT , VACATE , OR TO BE ABSENT !

The GREEK word BAPTISM is translated many ways and in Eph 4:5 the Greek used there is BAPTISM , BAPTIZO but the Greek text says the Greek word is BAPTISMA and also in 21 other verses , so who is right ??

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and I use a translation of the kjv and it is translated , using the word ABSENT !!

And I have a translated KJV that does not use the word ABSENT and uses the word TO BE AT HOME / EKDEMEO

and EKDEMEO is translated , EMIGRATE , DEPART , QUIT , VACATE , OR TO BE ABSENT !

The GREEK word BAPTISM is translated many ways and in Eph 4:5 the Greek used there is BAPTISM , BAPTIZO but the Greek text says the Greek word is BAPTISMA and also in 21 other verses , so who is right ??

dan p

What in the world is a translation of the KJV?

And what in the world is a translated KJV?

Lol - unless you mean the Reina Valera-Gomez - which is a Spanish update of the Reina Valera by Gomez so that it aligns with the KJV, but in Spanish.

Note: the lol is because I doubt that is what you were talking about.

Rom. 5: 6-8

 

[DansingWall]

If anybody follows these ground rules, I will discuss any biblical topic.

Most are not talkin to me cause i use the scriptures. You may comment on my threads about Rev.22 and 2COR.6

 

[DAN P]

What in the world is a translation of the KJV?

And what in the world is a translated KJV?

Lol - unless you mean the Reina Valera-Gomez - which is a Spanish update of the Reina Valera by Gomez so that it aligns with the KJV, but in Spanish.

Note: the lol is because I doubt that is what you were talking about.

Rom. 5: 6-8

Hi and there are 2 Greek texts today !

#1 The Textus Receptus
#2 The Majority Text
#3, Stephen's Text
#4 The Byzantine Text

The Western Greek Text is also known by 5 other names !
#1 , Minority Text
#2 , Alexandrian Text
#3 Westcott and Hort Text
#4 , Nestle's Text
#5 , Nestle-Aland Text

Take your pick !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and there are 2 Greek texts today !

#1 The Textus Receptus
#2 The Majority Text
#3, Stephen's Text
#4 The Byzantine Text

The Western Greek Text is also known by 5 other names !
#1 , Minority Text
#2 , Alexandrian Text
#3 Westcott and Hort Text
#4 , Nestle's Text
#5 , Nestle-Aland Text

Take your pick !!

dan p

What in the world is a translation of the KJV?

And what in the world is a translated KJV?

None of those are that.

Not a one.

Cart before the horse?

Chicken before the egg?

In contrast, a translation like the Reina Valera-Gomez IS a translation OF the KJV...IS a TRANSLATED KJV, but obviously, it is not what you are talking about.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[way 2 go]

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
Just to clarify, I am a believer, but have nothing to do with and oppose what is called 'Evangelicalism."
"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a twisted perversion of 2Cor 5:8

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

You see? That verse does not teach, Absent from the body.. " This verse has been corrupted. I could tell somebody that "Paul taught that believers would rather be with the Lord rather than be alive here on earth," and them show the verse, thus validating what I am teaching. Nobody can teach that when believers die, their spirit goes to be with Jesus. They can say it a million times, but they can't show even one verse that validates what they are saying.

2Cor 5:8 can be and is interpreted as absent from the body, present with the Lord

why should it not be interpreted that way ?


here we see absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

 

[Truster]

2Cor 5:8 can be and is interpreted as absent from the body, present with the Lord

why should it not be interpreted that way ?


here we see absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

Try reading the post with your eyes open.

 

[way 2 go]

Try reading the post with your eyes open.

preacherman57 just has a lot of :blabla:
about "Absent from the body, present with the Lord" is not a verse in the bible


here we see absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

 

[Truster]

preacherman57 just has a lot of :blabla:
about "Absent from the body, present with the Lord" is not a verse in the bible


here we see absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

Just because you can't see/understand it doesn't mean I can't.

 

[way 2 go]

Just because you can't see/understand it doesn't mean I can't.

 

[Truster]

It's no wonder you can't understand. Childish meme's are a hindrance to understanding.

 

[way 2 go]

It's no wonder you can't understand. Childish meme's are a hindrance to understanding.

 

[preacherman57]

Just because you can't see/understand it doesn't mean I can't.

That is fine, don't worry about it. Paul was called a babbler in Acts 17:18 by a bunch of pagans who simply couldn't comprehend simple speech. I see the same here. You prove my point, of course you dont know what my point is because there were too many words for you to read, I wrote it for adults who can think and I used logic. Yet, you marvelously prove what I had written. Because it is obivious that you dont understand the necessity of reading verses before and after a quoted verse. If you had bothered to read 2Cor 5:6-10 you would have seen, by the context, (I hope you know what context is and how important it is to comprehend the meaning of what was written down.)
Wait! What am I saying? Because as all Evangelicals, you know what you want the bible to say and that is good enough. Throw away context, gramnar, syntax, word definition and meaning, because you want the bible to say, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." It matters not that there is no verse that reads that and there is no legitimate, proper way to, following the rules of granmer, have 2Cor 5 :8 say what your imagination chooses to believe.
Scripture doesnt mean what it says, you decide what you want scripture to say. And then you quote a verse from Rev that has absoluty nothing to do with 2Cor 5:8, as if is a cross refrence.
But, dont feel bad. The bible is full of verses that show that God opens the eyes of His sheep and enables them to see and comprehend His truth. If you cannot see the truth, it is oblivious that God has blinded your eyes.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

 

[way 2 go]

That is fine, don't worry about it. Paul was called a babbler in Acts 17:18 by a bunch of pagans who simply couldn't comprehend simple speech. I see the same here. You prove my point, of course you dont know what my point is because there were too many words for you to read, I wrote it for adults who can think and I used logic. Yet, you marvelously prove what I had written. Because it is obivious that you dont understand the necessity of reading verses before and after a quoted verse. If you had bothered to read 2Cor 5:6-10 you would have seen, by the context, (I hope you know what context is and how important it is to comprehend the meaning of what was written down.)
Wait! What am I saying? Because as all Evangelicals, you know what you want the bible to say and that is good enough. Throw away context, gramnar, syntax, word definition and meaning, because you want the bible to say, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." It matters not that there is no verse that reads that and there is no legitimate, proper way to, following the rules of granmer, have 2Cor 5 :8 say what your imagination chooses to believe.
Scripture doesnt mean what it says, you decide what you want scripture to say. And then you quote a verse from Rev that has absoluty nothing to do with 2Cor 5:8, as if is a cross refrence.
But, dont feel bad. The bible is full of verses that show that God opens the eyes of His sheep and enables them to see and comprehend His truth. If you cannot see the truth, it is oblivious that God has blinded your eyes.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

2Cor 5:8 can be and is interpreted as absent from the body, present with the Lord

why should it not be interpreted that way ?

adding context of 2Cor 5:6-10 confirms absent from the body, present with the Lord


here we see absent from the body, present with the Lord.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

 

[Truster]

That is fine, don't worry about it. Paul was called a babbler in Acts 17:18 by a bunch of pagans who simply couldn't comprehend simple speech. I see the same here. You prove my point, of course you dont know what my point is because there were too many words for you to read, I wrote it for adults who can think and I used logic. Yet, you marvelously prove what I had written. Because it is obivious that you dont understand the necessity of reading verses before and after a quoted verse. If you had bothered to read 2Cor 5:6-10 you would have seen, by the context, (I hope you know what context is and how important it is to comprehend the meaning of what was written down.)
Wait! What am I saying? Because as all Evangelicals, you know what you want the bible to say and that is good enough. Throw away context, gramnar, syntax, word definition and meaning, because you want the bible to say, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." It matters not that there is no verse that reads that and there is no legitimate, proper way to, following the rules of granmer, have 2Cor 5 :8 say what your imagination chooses to believe.
Scripture doesnt mean what it says, you decide what you want scripture to say. And then you quote a verse from Rev that has absoluty nothing to do with 2Cor 5:8, as if is a cross refrence.
But, dont feel bad. The bible is full of verses that show that God opens the eyes of His sheep and enables them to see and comprehend His truth. If you cannot see the truth, it is oblivious that God has blinded your eyes.

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

Go back and read my post again. Then try and figure out who it is I'm addressing and why.

Take your time and please don't answer until you are enlightened.

 

[preacherman57]

Most are not talkin to me cause i use the scriptures. You may comment on my threads about Rev.22 and 2COR.6

Hi there,
I have not been able to get to your threads, but, i do understand why people refuse to talk to you or comment on things you have written. We have been in the last days since Jesus departed this earth, but the apostasy is growing exponentialy. When Scripture talks about the apostasy, 2Thes 2:3. the meaning of apostasy is a "forsaking of the faith, a divorce from the truth" what Paul was speaking of was large numbers of people who do not, nor ever will have or believe the truth. He did not mean people who had true faith choosing to no longer believe. What we have is what I use as a negative word, the Evangelicals. They are the huge majority that call themselves Christian, but are not. A true believer always wants to know what scripture says and what scripture means. It is our guide for life. At the same time, scripture has some harsh things to say about man and scripture teaches that true believers will have a hard time on this earth, being rejected by all of the goats
Acts 14:22...and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Suffering tribulation includes being rejected by men when you try to teach truth.
These people do not care or want to know what the bible teaches. Dont sweat it. Besides, God determines who believes and who doesn't believe. All that is required from you is that you put the good seed out there

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[JudgeRightly]

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord."
Just to clarify, I am a believer, but have nothing to do with and oppose what is called 'Evangelicalism." First, the words, Evangelicalism, Evangelicals are nowhere to be found in the original Hebrew or Greek texts and there is not one English translation that uses those words. The word "Evangelical" was coined by Spurgeon. Yet, his intent was to apply the term to actual believers, which is not the reality today.

Incorrect.

We find the word "euaggelion" (or "euangelion") a few times in scripture.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g2098

Second, Evangelicalism is false Christianity. In the world of Evangelicalism many, many lies are taught and believed.

Evangelism is defined (in relation to Christianity) as "the spreading of the Christian gospel by public preaching or personal witness."

This is exactly what Christ said to do (see "euaggelion" link above).

I personally do not care if you agree or disagree with what I post. I wont debate or argue with anyone who starts a statement with, "I think, I believe, I feel, I know, I sense, in my spirit, the spirit tells me, God/Jesus told me, I had a dream/vision,or My preacher says..."

I shall do my best to present facts and not opinions.

I actually study scripture and there are some ground rules that must be followed in any discussion of biblical things:
1. Any claim that something is biblical must be backed up by actual verses. There is not one biblical doctrine (Teaching, instruction, command) that does not have a number of verses validating what is said.

Does something have to be explicitly stated in scripture? or can we use logic and reason for our exegesis?

2. You must be able to show me a verse(s) that actually use words that validate a statement. For example, one of the Evangelicals favorite catch-phrases is,
"Be the hands and feet of Jesus." While you may personally believe that, you would not be able to show me even one verse where the words, "Be the hands and feet of Jesus," are used. That is one of the problems in the Evangelical world. People believe what they want the bible to say instead of believing what the bible actually does say.

You mention below Jewish figures of speech. Let's not, in our exegesis of Scripture, be hypocritical in not understanding English figures of speech as well which can summarize beliefs.

Being "hands and feet of Christ" (please note, I am non-denominational) is a figure of speech that means to do what Christ wants us to do, and to go where Christ wants us to go.

The phrase is simply an amalgamation of various scriptures.

3. Any doctrine that applies to believers today must be found in both Testaments.

Not necessarily.

Jesus did not come to start something "new" for the Gentiles.

Correct, His focus was on the Jews.

The English word "Church" is not the correct translation of "ekklesia" in Mat 16:18.

What would be the correct translation of that word, then, oh knowledgeable one?

The word "Church" is not even a bad translation. It is not a transliteration. It is a word that has nothing to do with Gentile believers.

Originally, that is correct. It was referring to believing Israel, as the Body of Christ had not been implemented yet.

It was forced into the translation in order to enforce the idea of a hierarchy, whereas the religious leaders were superior over lay people, they were the only "qualified" interpreters of Scripture and had rule over people.

Does Paul not have anything to say about this topic?

Look it up for yourselves. Who was Jesus talking to when He said, " I will build...?" Nicodemus, a Jew.

Are you referring to Matthew 16:18? Jesus is speaking to Peter in that verse.

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew16:18&version=NKJV

(Interesting tidbit about that verse: Jesus uses two different words for "rock" when speaking to Peter. "Peter" ("Petros") means "a (piece of) rock," but petra just means "a (mass of) rock." Jesus is calling Peter a rock, but Peter won't be the rock that He builds his ekklesia on. That "rock" is Jesus Himself.)

From the very beginning until the end of time, God has set it up in that the Gentiles were to be grafted into the Kingdom. Jesus did not "start" some type of Gentile "Church" that would be used to bring the Jews back into the Kingdom. Everything Jesus taught, Paul taught, John taught, Peter taught" James and Jude taught were all based on the Old Testament. Jesus only said "a new commandment I give unto you" one time John 13:34,

4. All words must be looked at from the original languages, the definition of the original words and with the proper context.

Excellent.

If anybody follows these ground rules, I will discuss any biblical topic.

Cool beans.

2Pet 3:16 perfectly describes what the Evangelical preachers are doing. The status quo is:

Unfortunately, the following applies to MOST Christians, and not just Evangelicals.

1. Verses are twisted and perverted.

Unfortunately.

2. They add to and take away from God's word.

Unfortunately.

3. They isolate verses and treat them as if one verse or a passage teaches a doctrine.

Unfortunately.

4. They lie about word definitions. One grand example is when they teach that "meek" means "power under control." NO IT DOESN'T! Look it up yourselves. It means "humble", no more, no less

I've never heard that one before.

5. They spiritualize anything they want to,
"The storms in your life," " The giants in your life," etc.

Agreed, some people are so heavenly minded they're no earthly good.

6. They use selective verses to validate what they say instead of showing everything that the bible says about a topic.

Unfortunately.

7. They teach literal things as symbolic and symbolic things as literal.

Unfortunately.

8. They have no knowledge of the Jewish figures of speech used and miss the meaning.

Unfortunately.

9.They treat the parables as if they are true stories.

Question 1:

Do the parables Jesus and others taught reflect reality? In other words, do they have that flavor of realism that makes it believable and even relatable?

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a common catch-phrase in the Evangelical world.

It has indeed become cliche. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong...

It is taught to mean that when a believer dies, the spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with Jesus. It is said so often and with such conviction that people assume it must be a verse or phrase found in the bible.

Well, considering that it is almost verbatim (I did say "almost") in Scripture, it's not surprising that it's so memorable.

Entire sermons and semon series are put together to teach that when a believer dies. . i cannot even imagine the number of funerals where this phrase is stated.

Doesn't mean it's incorrect though...

There is only one, teeny problem. "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is not a verse found in the word of God.

Correct.

It is not a phrase located within a verse.

Well, that's not entirely true. As you (and I) quoted below, it's not a verbatim phrase from scripture, but rather rewording a phrase in a verse to describe something. More on that in a bit.

In the entire bible, not one writer wrote down those words. There is not even a hint of "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," ever being spoken by any person recorded in the bible.

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:8&version=NKJV

That seems like a pretty BIG hint...

Question 2:

What is death?

If we're going to be talking about death, then it would help to have an understanding of what it is, would it not?

The phrase is just one example of many, many lies being taught and believed in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of how man-made traditions are abundent in the Evangelical world. It is just one example of the Evangelical preachers refusal to study. It is just one example that shows the Evangelical preachers do not know how to, or even care to do any type of honest study. It is just one example of the lack of knowledge among the Evangelical pew warmers who are so simple minded that they swallow hook, line and sinker anything a Evangelical preacher tells them. It is just another example of how the pew warmers will not bother to even check out anything they they are told. It is just another example of how gullible, niave and without a lick if discernment the pew warmers are. It shows how what the bible prophesied, tons of false teachers and the huge number of those who desire false teaching instead of bible truth.

Nothing worth replying to in this section.

"Absent from the body, present with the Lord," is a twisted perversion of 2Cor 5:8

No, it's just extracting what Paul is teaching.

Question 3:

Is "sleep" often used as a euphemism in the Bible for death?

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

You see? That verse does not teach, Absent from the body.. " This verse has been corrupted. I could tell somebody that "Paul taught that believers would rather be with the Lord rather than be alive here on earth," and them show the verse, thus validating what I am teaching. Nobody can teach that when believers die, their spirit goes to be with Jesus. They can say it a million times, but they can't show even one verse that validates what they are saying.

On the contrary, there are several verses that show just that, that when a believer dies, they are immediately with God in heaven. We'll get to them in later posts.

I have not been able to track down when and who started, 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord."

:think: Perhaps it was Paul??? :think:

I wonder if some Evangelical preacher had read,1Cor 5:3 some time ago and by using his own imagination and practicing a method of false teaching, came up with "Absent from the body..."
But, more important is the fact that any Evangelical preacher today, in the past or in the future, who teaches "Absent from the body, present with the Lord," and that it means that the believers spirit goes to be with Jesus immediately after death, are
teaching a LIE. THEY ARE LYING. What do you call a person who claims to teach bible truth, but teaches lies about what the bible states? A False teacher.

You seem to have an axe to grind on this subject.

Preacherman, Here are my questions above. If you could answer them, it would help the discussion along.

Question 1: Do parables in the Bible reflect reality?
Question 2: What is death?
Question 3: Is "sleep" used in the Bible as a euphemism for death?

If there is anything I have stated that is incorrect, or if I have misrepresented your position, I welcome correction.

 

[DansingWall]

Psalm 6:2-5
Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak: O Lord, heal me; for my bones are vexed. [3] My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O Lord, how long? [4] Return, O Lord, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. [5] For IN DEATH THERE IS NO REMEMBRANCE OF THEE: IN THE GRAVE WHO SHALL GIVE THEE THANKS?

Ill be a postin these as i find them

Now if you went to heaven as soon as you die, you'd think you would remember Jesus and give Him thanks!