Dennis Rader is a serial killer who murdered at least 10 people in Kansas between 1974 and 1991. He was known as the BTK killer, which stands for Bind, Torture and Kill. He was also a member of Christ Lutheran Church. He had been a member for about 30 years and had been elected president of the Congregation Council. While discussing his religion on Dateline NBC, Rader stated, "you know, according to the bible and Christianity, you can do terrible things and be accepted, but you can’t keep doing it you know." (
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Rader, shared my opponents belief in progressive sanctification. It was that faulty understanding that caused him to believe hat he was accepted while he did terrible things. Had someone actually shared the truth with him that we must turn from sin completely, and explained to him how that can be done, who knows how many of his murders could have been prevented. The difference between this serial killer and my opponent, is that the serial killer believed "you can’t keep doing it" and be saved. My opponent clearly believes that one can continue to murder and be saved, which makes his doctrine potentially more dangerous than Rader's.
IF the person had TRULY accepted Christ but then was somehow, I can't imagine how, seduced by Satan to carry out a contract killing...I think he would still be saved.
We can know with certainty that the BTK Killer was not born of God, and that my opponents position regarding the "contract killing" above is untenable based on God's word. The Apostle John wrote, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that
no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" (1Jo 3:15), and, "He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now" (1Jo 2:9
see also 1Jo 2:11; and 1Jo 4:20). Therefore, we can see that one cannot truly accept Christ and continue to be a murderer, nor can they even continue to hate their brother, which God equates with murder.
My opponent has asserted that I have "chosen the most vile sin" I can think of, as though that somehow bolsters his position. Paul wrote, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Jesus will say "depart from me," to all those workers of iniquity, too. My opponent has asserted that they can continue to do those things and be saved as long as they "accept Christ," which is nothing more that a powerless cliché the way he uses the term.
Later in this debate I will explain what true sanctification is, and how one can be completely free from sin without being under the law. Jesus said, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (Mt 11:30). I hope to show how easy and light the truth is, and how someone can follow him to victory without sin.
My response to your answers to my questions:
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Question 6: Do you agree that we can and should completely stop sinning?
Answer: No. I think we should strive for that but it was for our sins that Jesus died. If I can stop sinning, I have no need of Christ... |
It is such a belief that leads to modern churches having serial killers and child molesters in positions of authority and in the pews. Jesus died to free us from sin, not the guilt or penalty if we continue to sin. If one cannot stop sinning, then one will remain a servant of sin (John 8:34). One cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:24).
Question 7: What is your standard of righteousness specifically?
Answer: JESUS is my righteousness. I do NOT trust in my own righteousness... |
I don't know what you mean by your "own righteousness," since I wasn't aware that a person had their own righteousness according to the Bible. Naturally, you cannot trust in something that you do not believe exists. If Jesus is your standard of righteousness, then I am puzzled why you claim we can not meet his standard and be like him without sin. His standard was sinless perfection. It sounds like you are claiming that you can sin because Jesus gives you a license to.
Question 8: What is your standard of sin, the mark you can miss that proves you sin?
Let me be clear on this question so that you do not equivocate or answer with another cliché. You used the example of drunkenness as sin. How do you know drunkenness is a sin, and how drunk is too much. Where is the law, rule or standard you are following to make that determination, if it is not your subjective opinion.
My answers to your questions:
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Question 15 a, b: What religious group do you affiliate yourself with? If you are not actually a “member” of a church, are you in sympathy with a particular movement or group such as Church of God, Anderson Indiana; The Salvation Army; Church of the Nazarene or some independent holiness movement?
[a] I affiliate with no "church" or denomination, but have a home church with my family.
I am not in sympathy with any movement anywhere, only the Holy Spirit.
Question 16: Then why would Jesus ask Peter to forgive a person 490 times and God would refuse to forgive us more than once?
First, God is not a man (Num 23:19). Second, "to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little" (Luke 7:47). Therefore, whoever is forgiven much, loves much. It is not God that refuses to forgive, but the sinner who refuses to repent and rejects the forgiveness offered.
Question 17a, b: What is your standard of sin? What does SIN mean to YOU?
[a] Whatever is not faith is sin (Rom 14:23). Sin means transgression of the law (1Jo 3:4).
Question 18: When DID Peter convert?
I don't know when Peter was converted. I only know that he was not converted when Jesus told him that he wasn't, just prior to the cross (Luke 22:32).