On Priscilla Owen

[jeremiah]

All modesty aside, if Granite wants to become more like me... good for him. :chuckle:

Yes, when I wrote that I thought to myself, this is actually a great compliment to him from the perspective of your side. I wonder if he will see it as an insult or a badge of honor.
Having just taken my teenagers to see the final Star wars epic, the comparisons of a former pastor, Zakath, and former Christian, Granite, now being close allies in going over to the "dark side" are compelling. Of course that is from my perspective, that Jesus Christ, is the one true living God. A belief you both formerly professed and held.
I have no doubt neither of you is as sinister, as that pair in the movie, and odds are you would at least be better actors. :chuckle:

 

[Granite]

"Was it not about a year ago that you renounced your belief in Jesus Christ? Why are you still even here on Theology Online.?"

About a year. I enjoy stirring the pot.

"Your remarks above, show just how unloving and un-Christlike that you are becoming each day."

All in the eye. I call 'em as I see 'em.

"Golly gee, Bob wants to have judges executed, let's pop a cap."

My comment was deliberately facetious: if Enyart and his followers are so riled up pull a Paul Hill and put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise shut up and quit spilling your bloodlust over the airwaves.

"If you are a pro- life libertarian, then you could have come on this thread and railed against our courts which invented a right to abortion, and excused themselves for appointing judges who starve disabled women to death."

I could have and chose not to. So what. Free country last time I checked. I think Roe v. Wade opened the floodgates to murder and I believe that Terri Schiavo should have been placed in the care of her parents. That said, it doesn't change my original opinion that nutcases like Enyart who pound their shoes on the table and clamor for the execution of judges are just as harmful as judges who sanction murder.

After that you could have done a little research like your alter ego, and said, BTW we did not execute any judges at Nuremburg, so I think we should imprison them. I disagree with putting them to death for ordering them starved to death.

"After that you could have done a little research like your alter ego, and said, BTW we did not execute any judges at Nuremburg..."

Enyart could have done his homework, too.

 

[Granite]

I've pointed the same thing out to granite except I told him I thought he was becoming more like Gerald every day, which is even worse.

...and your opinion matters to me because...?:think:

 

[Granite]

All modesty aside, if Granite wants to become more like me... good for him. :chuckle:

:thumb:

Thank you, Lord Sidious. Where's my helmet?:devil:

 

[Zakath]

:thumb:

Thank you, Lord Sidious. Where's my helmet?:devil:

Arise, Darth Granite! There is much work to be done... :ha:

 

[Granite]

Arise, Darth Granite! There is much work to be done... :ha:

Yes, my master.:chuckle:

 

[Caille]

You're all missing the point. The main point is that Christians are foolish for fighting for judges who are strict constructionists.

Gee Jeff - I thought the point was:

Rah, rah, Go Bob!





Expecting accuracy from Enyart is a waste of time. He survives on controversy. If it suits his needs to bend the truth, then heck, why not?

 

[Caille]

I wasn't part of the whole Terry Schiavo mess here online, but it occured to me that the fundamentalist, literalists here have some 'splainin' to do, after completely glossing over 2Thes.3:10


(slips back out of Gerald suit)

 

[Granite]

Gee Jeff - I thought the point was:

Rah, rah, Go Bob!





Expecting accuracy from Enyart is a waste of time. He survives on controversy. If it suits his needs to bend the truth, then heck, why not?

Being a cheerleader for Enyart is fine--Jeff's obviously free to do that--but the reverend went completely overboard and was inaccurate in his history to boot.

 

[Zakath]

Being a cheerleader for Enyart is fine--Jeff's obviously free to do that--but the reverend went completely overboard and was inaccurate in his history to boot.

Are correct in assuming that the quote in the OP was Enyart, right???

 

[Caille]

Are correct in assuming that the quote in the OP was Enyart, right???

Good point - he does have guest hosts now and then. Darned if I'm going to listen to all that wibbling to find out. Let's let Jefferson clarify in the interests of fairness.

 

[Granite]

Are correct in assuming that the quote in the OP was Enyart, right???

Pretty sure.

 

[one4christ]

Good point - he does have guest hosts now and then. Darned if I'm going to listen to all that wibbling to find out. Let's let Jefferson clarify in the interests of fairness.

I'm not Jefferson, but I can tell you it was Bob's quote, as stated above...Wednesday May 18th, 2005. This is show # 98.

 

[Zakath]

I'm not Jefferson, but I can tell you it was Bob's quote, as stated above...Wednesday May 18th, 2005. This is show # 98.

Thank you for confirming that, 14Christ. :thumb:

 

[one4christ]

The point being made here is that the judges at Nuremburg were held responsible for their judgements. Just because their judgements were consistent with laws that were on the books at the time did not absolve them of making wrong choices.

The pro-life position is being made ineffective by allowing 'pro-life' judges off the hook for making judgements on existing laws that allow the murder of unborn children. Letting judges off the hook for making judgements on existing laws by 'doing their job' is a distraction from their true responsibility - a diversion. They should be held responsible.

Just like all this nonsense about whether the judges at Nuremburg were 'executed' or 'received life imprisonment' is a diversion. The point is that they were held responsible for how they judged. What type of sentance they received for this is irrelevant. If it was an error, it should be noted and corrected, but it does not detract from the point being made.

Using the dramatic language to try and get people's attention and wake them up concerning this issue is absolutelty required and necessary considering how few people have considered or were aware of this perspective at all.

 

[Zakath]

...Using the dramatic language to try and get people's attention and wake them up concerning this issue is absolutelty required and necessary considering how few people have considered or were aware of this perspective at all.

I don't think anyone who posted here missed the point of the statement. It was the delivery method used in the OP that was problematic.

IMO, using "dramatic language" or even hyperbole is fine. Particularly in an entertainment context. But it's quite a bit different from stating a piece of misinformation, over and over, trying to lend validity to one's point.

Far from lending to the credibility of one's argument, continual misstatements of fact tends to erode it.

 

[Granite]

I don't think anyone who posted here missed the point of the statement. It was the delivery method used in the OP that was problematic.

IMO, using "dramatic language" or even hyperbole is fine. Particularly in an entertainment context. But it's quite a bit different from stating a piece of misinformation, over and over, trying to lend validity to one's point.

Far from lending to the credibility of one's argument, continual misstatements of fact tends to erode it.

And what definitely does not help is the inability to admit a mistake and move on. Dramatic license is one thing but it's certainly not something you should mix with history.

I would agree that from a consistent pro-life position somebody or something should hold these judges accountable...but considering they're in there for life the only thing one can do is vote for candidates who will (hopefully) make the right appointments.

 

[Zakath]

...somebody or something should hold these judges accountable...but considering they're in there for life the only thing one can do is vote for candidates who will (hopefully) make the right appointments.

Most judges, IIRC, can be impeached, can't they? (See Article II, Sect. 4, U.S. Constitution which applies to "all civil officers of the United States") That's one way to hold such people accountable.

 

[Granite]

Most judges, IIRC, can be impeached, can't they? (See Article II, Sect. 4, U.S. Constitution which applies to "all civil officers of the United States") That's one way to hold such people accountable.

Ah. Forgot about that. At the rate we're going the list of those who "should" be impeached is going to be fairly considerable.

Has the pro-life community started any action in calling for the impeachment of any "activist" judges? I'm not aware of any, doesn't mean someone hasn't had the bright idea, though.

 

[one4christ]

Did you get your permission slip?

Did you get your permission slip?

Here is my favorite quote from this show on this day, show # 98:

We pro-lifer's, we think were just so politically brilliant in our strategy that we advocate these parental consent laws - a girl cannot have an abortion unless her parents give consent.

Replace abortion there with any other crime, like rape, right? Or lynching a black man, or killing a jewish person in Germany. And you're going to say, "Well a juvenille can not rape a girl in school, unless his parent's consent", or "A girl cannot murder her neighbor", or "You can't kill a jewish person, in a concentration camp, unless you get a doctor's permission slip."

Do you see the whole structure of it? It's so perverse. It's perverse - it makes things worse!