On Opinions, Facts and the Dishonest Use of Language

[ok doser]

The following was posted recently:

Facts are piling up, and it’s getting harder to deny what’s staring us in the face.

At the NATO summit in Brussels, Trump attacked a close European ally—Germany—and generally questioned the value of the alliance. Next, he visited the United Kingdom and trashed Prime Minister Theresa May. Then, in Helsinki, he met with Vladimir Putin privately for two hours, with no U.S. officials present other than a translator. After this suspicious meeting, he sang the Russian strongman’s praises at a news conference at which he said he viewed Putin’s denials on a par with the unanimous and unchallenged conclusions of America’s intelligence agencies.
...

With every other world leader, the physically imposing Trump attempts to dominate—witness his alpha-male handshakes with French President Emanuel Macron or his flamboyant man-spreading next to German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Yet with the diminutive Putin—who is maybe 5 feet, 6 inches tall—he’s oddly submissive. During the public portion of their encounter, Trump was slumping in his chair, as if defeated. Why? Why did he insist on a one-on-one meeting with Putin in the first place?
...

But nobody would say his odd solicitousness toward the Kremlin leader is a political winner, and it certainly causes an unnecessary amount of friction with Republicans in Congress. He’s kept it up at great political cost to himself, and that suggests either that he is possessed by an anomalous level of conviction on this one issue, despite his extraordinary malleability on everything else—or that he’s beholden to Putin in some way.
...

And pay attention, too, to what the White House says about Russia’s absurd demand that the U.S. hand over former ambassador to Moscow Mike McFaul—Wednesday’s spectacle of Sarah Huckabee Sanders refusing to immediately rule out the idea flies in the face of decades of American diplomacy. Trump may have grudgingly admitted that Russia did the deed, but nobody should be surprised if he starts shedding doubt on it all over again. Maybe, just maybe, he can’t admit that Moscow tried to put him in the Oval Office because he’s under strict instructions not to.

take note that the author's lead word was "facts" and that he then proceeded to fill a page with opinion

for example:

"Trump attacked...Germany"

well, no

we know what it looks like to attack germany - it looks like this, in fact:

and then there's:

"Next, he ...trashed Prime Minister Theresa May."

well, no

what he said was:

Washington (CNN)US President Donald Trump touched down in the United Kingdom Thursday and spoke with a major British tabloid where he differed with British Prime Minister Theresa May on her approach to Brexit.
"I told her how to do it. That will be up to her to say. But I told her how to do it. She wanted to go a different route," Trump said, according to audio of an interview posted by The Sun.
Trump said May "didn't listen" to his views on how she should negotiate the UK's exit from the European Union, but said that was "fine."
"She should negotiate the best way she knows how, but it's too bad what's going on," Trump said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/politics/donald-trump-theresa-may-interview/index.html

you'd have to be a complete retard to think that constitutes "trashing" her :dizzy:

I could go on like this through the entire mess of a piece and demonstrate that the retarded author only presents two facts - that the rest is opinion, and opinion based in retarded fantasy at that

Since the author has now been identified as a total retard, I don't see any reason to continue.

Yay!

 

[ok doser]

Opinions are the meat of a discussion board. But if they're not rooted in fact, then they're worse than useless. The preceding essay was offered as factual evidence by the OP that trump is a (racist/misogynist/traitor/puppet-of-putin/etc/etc).

When pressed to admit that the "facts" he offered were, in fact, opinion, he flamed out and stamped off in a huff (which was quite amusing to watch )



By all means - discuss opinions here. But don't confuse opinion with fact. Or if you do, don't whine about getting mocked.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Your opinions are noted.

 

[ok doser]

:mock:my opinions

 

[ok doser]

Continued discussion with kit from here

 

[Crucifer]

>Demanding facts
>Supports a president who flunks fact checks worse than Cheech at a drug screening

The simple truth is that Trump is fueled on the idea that Merkel and whoever else are cuckolding their countries, but with Putin he sees a man who, regardless of his intent or whatever dubious thing there might be about him, doesn't play around. He's like a human ( ( Russia ) )

It doesn't have anything to do with what an idiot SJW might say about it

And

"Trump attacked...Germany"

well, no

But a caravan of flip flops and cabana hats is a total 'invasion' lain:

 

[glorydaz]

>Demanding facts
>Supports a president who flunks fact checks worse than Cheech at a drug screening

The simple truth is that Trump is fueled on the idea that Merkel and whoever else are cuckolding their countries, but with Putin he sees a man who, regardless of his intent or whatever dubious thing there might be about him, doesn't play around. He's like a human ( ( Russia ) )

It doesn't have anything to do with what an idiot SJW might say about it

And


But a caravan of flip flops and cabana hats is a total 'invasion' lain:

I see you're drawing people like flies.

The forum will surely grow by leaps and bounds since you're here. :chuckle:

 

[Kit the Coyote]

All of those things you listed are a choice not to act on a desire, you can do all those things and still love pizza.
not if you don't think about pizza, if you do all you can to avoid pizza


consider:

i used to smoke cigarettes - i was a smoker, i identified as a smoker, i liked smoking, smoking was part of my life and part of my lifestyle

when i quit for good (when my wife was pregnant with our first) i got rid of cigarettes in the house, in the car, in the boat, etc etc - if you've been a smoker you'll know what i mean - those places i used to smoke i avoided where i could and substituted other things where i couldn't avoid (chewing gum in the car, for example)

i trained myself to stop thinking about smoking, to stop thinking of myself as a smoker, to stop identifying as a smoker

i didn't identify as a non-smoker unless asked directly

i had chosen to be a smoker, i chose to stop being a smoker

i no longer worry about being tempted to smoke, i no longer have that urge to smoke

I'm not sure that smoking is a good comparison as there is an additional factor involved in chemical addiction.

If you want to use an addiction model, alcoholism is a better one. Even if you are an alcoholic and you give up drinking you are still an alcoholic.

 

[ok doser]

... Even if you are an alcoholic and you give up drinking you are still an alcoholic.

i understand that's a popular way of looking at addictions, but i'm not comfortable with it. There are well documented cases of heroin addicts, nicotine addicts, alcohol addicts, sex addicts, etc who not only overcame their addictions, but were comfortable operating in their former environments and being exposed to their former triggers without feeling their old urges, either physical or psychological.

 

[ok doser]

btw - i gave up on the op when i went looking for examples - they were ubiquitous. The unbiased media report was the anomaly - still is.

 

[Crucifer2]

btw - i gave up on the op when i went looking for examples - they were ubiquitous. The unbiased media report was the anomaly - still is.

Have fun losing the next election

 

[ok doser]

I'm not planning on running in the next election :idunno:

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not planning on running in the next election :idunno:

:rotfl:

 

[jgarden]

On Opinions, Facts and the Dishonest Use of Language

This is the same President that characterized that his own appointed leaders of the NSA, CIA and FBI who were testifying under oath before Congress as being "naïve" and all needed to back to school - today he says that they were misquoted by the media and that all of them were on the "same page!"

 

[glorydaz]

On Opinions, Facts and the Dishonest Use of Language

This is the same President that characterized that his own appointed leaders of the NSA, CIA and FBI who were testifying under oath before Congress as being "naïve" and all needed to back to school - today he says that they were misquoted by the media and that all of them were on the "same page!"

It won't be the first time the media has distorted the facts. Is that a surprise to you?

 

[jgarden]

It won't be the first time the media has distorted the facts. Is that a surprise to you?

The "intelligence" chiefs were giving their testimony under oath, with their whole presentation was covered by the media in its entirety - plus there were transcripts recording exactly what was said!

Contrast that with the meeting between the President and the intelligence heads in the Oval Office with no media and no transcripts - all we have is Trump's personal version that they all had been misquoted by that "enemy of the people," the media!

Even the Republicans were less than pleased that this President would tweet comments questioning the competency and intelligence of his own appointed heads of the NSA, CIA and FBI for all to see - no wonder he has trouble attracting/retaining the smartest and the best to serve in his Administration!

 

[Catholic Crusader]

NATO head: Trump's tough talk has added $100B to alliance, helped deter Russia
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nato-head-says-trumps-tough-talk-has-helped-alliance

North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, speaking on "Fox News Sunday," said President Trump's tough talk has ultimately strengthened the 70-year-old alliance by leading member nations to contribute tens of billions of additional dollars to ensure their own security.

Stoltenberg's comments were a direct repudiation of critics who have accused Trump of undermining NATO by repeatedly pushing allies to meet their defense spending obligations -- and Trump himself referred to Stoltenberg's interview minutes later on Twitter as a rejection of a narrative pushed by "Dems & fake news."
"President Trump has been very clear," Stoltenberg told fill-in host John Roberts. "He is committed to NATO. He stated that clearly just a few days ago and also at the NATO summit in July. But at the same time, he has clearly stated that NATO allies need to invest more. And therefore at the summit in July last year, we agreed to do more to step up -- and now we see the results."

 

[The Barbarian]

doser writes:
Yet with the diminutive Putin—who is maybe 5 feet, 6 inches tall—he’s oddly submissive. During the public portion of their encounter, Trump was slumping in his chair, as if defeated. Why? Why did he insist on a one-on-one meeting with Putin in the first place?

Hmmm...

You might have a point. The much-discussed "submissive handshake" he did with Putin may be nothing more than a consequence of his rather small hands, though:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

.......During the public portion of their encounter, Trump was slumping in his chair, as if defeated........

LOL! What's next, are you going to read the entrails of an owl? Maybe a little astrology?

 

[The Barbarian]

ok doser writes:
During the public portion of their encounter, Trump was slumping in his chair, as if defeated

(Barbarian checks)

You might have a point.

The much-discussed "submissive handshake" he did with Putin may be nothing more than a consequence of his rather small hands, though:

LOL!

Yeah, that was my initial impression, too. Odd that he's so subdued around Putin, isn't it?

What's next?

Probably Trump easing sanctions against Russia, I suppose...

Jan 28 2019
In a new twist to the ongoing saga about Donald Trump’s relationship with Russia, the US president has controversially lifted sanctions on companies linked to Russian businessman Oleg Deripaska. The oligarch allegedly has ties to Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager who, says CNBC, pleaded guilty in September 2018 to attempted witness tampering and conspiring against the US.
https://www.biznews.com/global-investing/2019/01/28/glencore-boost-trump-eases-sanctions-russian-pal