Oligarchy Confirmed - Democracy Is Dead In The U.S.

PureX

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New Study Proves U.S. Is Controlled By Rich And Powerful Elite

May 22, 2015 by Richard Zombeck (link here)

It’s not exactly breaking news that the United States is an Oligarchy and that Democracy in this country has gone the way of the dinosaur and the Dodo Bird. But when other countries are looking at us and pointing their fingers, the problem has gone beyond just being anecdotal.

Former Labor Secretary, Robert Reich, has been railing about it for years, warning of the dire consequences of an elite few pouring billions into our political process in order to sway legislation, regulation and inevitably profits their way.

When billionaires supplant political parties, candidates are beholden directly to the billionaires. And if and when those candidates win election, the billionaires will be completely in charge. Reich writes extensively on his blog and also manages to find his way all over the internet. He even produced a film, “Inequality for All,” documenting how the wealthiest 1% siphoned trillions of dollars from hard working Americans. It’s not clear how many people have watched it, but it’s clear that those who did aren’t sufficiently outraged enough.

In another article, “The Rise of the Working Poor and the Non-Working Rich,” Reich points out that what despite many in Congress would have us believe, the rich really don’t work for their money.

It’s also commonly believed, especially among Republicans, that the rich deserve their wealth because they work harder than others. In reality, a large and growing portion of the super-rich have never broken a sweat. Their wealth has been handed to them. The rise of these two groups — the working poor and non-working rich — is relatively new. Both are challenging the core American assumptions that people are paid what they’re worth, and work is justly rewarded.

Last month the BBC in England (that’s a different country) reported that Princeton University Prof. Martin Gilens and Northwestern University Prof. Benjamin I Page concluded a study showing that the “U.S. is dominated by a rich and powerful elite.”

The report was picked up by mostly Liberal media in the U.S. never really making it to an outlet as relatively substantial by comparison as the BBC. Here’s the extended interview with the authors of the study on the Daily Show talking about the 10 years of research.

You might think, “Big deal. Everyone knows that,” but in the case of this study, the two professors have actually, after extensive and exhaustive research, come up with data to prove this.

Gilens and Page reviewed answers to 1,770 survey questions on public policy issues. They broke the responses down by income level and then examined how often certain income levels and interest groups saw those policies come to light.

They found that policy changes supported by only one in five rich folks was adopted about 18% of the time, while changes with high support (four out five) were adopted about 45% of the time. One could assume that a policy raising the income for low wage workers might be one of those policy questions and lowering the taxes on people making more than $500,000 per year might be another.

The resulting consensus to the survey?

When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
They then end with this:

Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organizations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America’s claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened.

This might be a great big “Duh” to most people, but prior to any data actual being collected all we had were theories and rhetoric – regardless of how accurate we thought they were or how painfully obvious we might have felt it was.

As Eric Zuess, of Counterpunch writes:

American democracy is a sham, no matter how much it’s pumped by the oligarchs who run the country (and who control the nation’s ‘news’ media.) The US, in other words, is basically similar to Russia or most other dubious ‘electoral’ ‘democratic’ countries. We weren’t formerly, but we clearly are now.

Maybe we, as Americans, just need to stop pretending that we have some sort of equal opportunity in this country and that, for at least the last few decades, we’ve been fooling ourselves. England has a House of Lords and House of Commoners right out there in the open and for all intents and purposes embraces their classist system. It’s only a matter of time before we allow it right out there in the open as if it’s the way it’s always been.
 

Traditio

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"Until philosophers rule as kings..."

Note, everyone, as tired as you probably are of hearing me insist on it, that every time you complain about democracy, every time that you insist that it has failed, every time you complain that it has been subverted, every time you point out its glaring and obvious faults...you only strengthen my case.

"Freedom - power to the people - Democracy...the Great American Dream. Don't kid yourself. We tried it before. Believe me, it doesn't work. You can't trust the people. So dream on, creep. But just remember - that's all it is. A dream" (Judge Dredd in the storyline America).
 
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PureX

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It's true that democracy doesn't work. But we were never a democracy in the pure sense. We were a democratic republic. Which means even the will of the majority is limited by the rights of the individual citizen.

The reason the U.S. has failed as a democratic republic, and has become an oligarchy, is because this was the first time in human history that this form of government had been tried in earnest. So the founding documents and principals needed to protect the individual citizen were very poorly articulated. Also, this nation was formed right at the dawn of an amazing new scientific and technological era, and the founders could not possibly have anticipated the extent of the changes that would take place. The bare outline that they left us with could not stand up to the overwhelming wealth and greed that almost immediately followed.

But I disagree with you 100% that this means mankind can never have fair and functional government. I believe we can and we will, … if we don't destroy ourselves, first.

In fact, if we do survive the next 50 or so years, I predict that it will be the 'last hurrah' of the oligarchs. Limited democratic socialism will eliminate them once and for all.
 

Traditio

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It's true that democracy doesn't work. But we were never a democracy in the pure sense. We were a democratic republic. Which means even the will of the majority is limited by the rights of the individual citizen.

That's not what that means at all.

The reason the U.S. has failed as a democratic republic, and has become an oligarchy, is because this was the first time in human history this form of government had been tries, in earnest. So the founding documents and principals needed to protect the individual citizen were very poorly articulated. Also, this nation was formed right at the dawn of an amazing new scientific and technological era, and so they could not possible have anticipated the extent of the changes that would take place. The bare outline they left us with could not stand up to the overwhelming earth and greed that immediately followed.

That's not why the U.S. has "failed" as a democratic republic. Democratic systems are doomed to fail because it institutes as rulers those persons who are not qualified to rule. Furthermore, the very nature of such a system forces the lawmakers to pander to the people instead of governing/restraining/ruling them in the way that they should.

A democratic politician tells the people want they want to hear. He has to.

In a well ordered society, the rulers shape the people. In a democratic regime, the people shape their rulers. That's just perverse.

But I disagree with you 100% that this means mankind can never have faith and functional government. I believe we can and we will, if we don't destroy ourselves, first.

There can be functional and good government. It just can't be "by the people, of the people and for the people." That's doomed to failure from the get go. To quote Judge Dredd, "You can't trust the people." I'm a big fan of the Judge Dredd system. I think that actually would work.
 

Traditio

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Spoken another way, PureX, why are democracy and similar systems bound to fail? Because their politicians will never have the guts to say the following:

"I stand four-square for justice. I stand for discipline, good order and the rigid application of the law....The people, they know where they stand. They need rules to live by - I provide them. They break the rules, I break them. That's the way it works...rights? Sure, I'm all for rights. But not at the expense of order. That's why I like to see that statue of judgment standing there, towering over liberty. Kind of a symbol" (Judge Dredd, from the America storyline).
 

Traditio

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In fact, if we do survive the next 50 or so years, I predict that it will be the 'last hurrah' of the oligarchs. Limited democratic socialism will eliminate them once and for all.

And "limp wristed liberals" like you (to quote the same Judge Dredd storyline) have been saying that for hundreds, thousands of years, in diverse times and places. How's that working for you?
 

PureX

Well-known member
When you're able to return from your Hollywood fantasy landscape, to the real world, and you can discuss it intelligently, let me know.
 

bybee

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Spoken another way, PureX, why are democracy and similar systems bound to fail? Because their politicians will never have the guts to say the following:

"I stand four-square for justice. I stand for discipline, good order and the rigid application of the law....The people, they know where they stand. They need rules to live by - I provide them. They break the rules, I break them. That's the way it works...rights? Sure, I'm all for rights. But not at the expense of order. That's why I like to see that statue of judgment standing there, towering over liberty. Kind of a symbol" (Judge Dredd, from the America storyline).

You and your heartless ilk are extremely dangerous.
 

Traditio

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When you're able to return from your Hollywood fantasy landscape, to the real world, and you can discuss it intelligently, let me know.

I've provided rational rebuttals in the previous comments. If you simply have a pathological aversion to quotes from comic books, that's your problem. :idunno:
 

PureX

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I think the most puzzling thing about this for me isn't the fact of it. We have been moving toward oligarchy for a long time, and especially so since the Reagan-Bush-Bush neo-con era. I think what puzzles me most is that although we know this has happened, few of us really seem to care about it. It's as if we have simply resigned ourselves to being the victims of greed and corruption to the degree that we expect it. Even consider it inevitable.

Why is greed and corruption so easily accepted, even though it's destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans, and yet gay marriage, abortion and gun control are the issues that people get outraged about? It's almost as if we focus on these silly social issues to avoid facing the criminal malignancy of greed and corruption that is crippling us as a nation. Why are we Americans so prone to such epidemic avoidance and denial?
 

bybee

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I think the most puzzling thing about this for me isn't the fact of it. We have been moving toward oligarchy for a long time, and especially so since the Reagan-Bush-Bush neo-con era. I think what puzzles me most is that although we know this has happened, few of us really seem to care about it. It's as if we have simply resigned ourselves to being the victims of greed and corruption to the degree that we expect it. Even consider it inevitable.

Why is greed and corruption so easily accepted, even though it's destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans, and yet gay marriage, abortion and gun control are the issues that people get outraged about? It's almost as if we focus on these silly social issues to avoid facing the criminal malignancy of greed and corruption that is crippling us as a nation. Why are we Americans so prone to such epidemic avoidance and denial?

My friend, every society ever ruled by a central government has devolved into oligarchy. Such is the nature of concentrated power, it corrupts!
I've decided to survive as best I can regardless of my powerlessness.
I'm grateful for what I have and not given to jousting with windmills.
 

PureX

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My friend, every society ever ruled by a central government has devolved into oligarchy. Such is the nature of concentrated power, it corrupts!
I've decided to survive as best I can regardless of my powerlessness.
I'm grateful for what I have and not given to jousting with windmills.
What about your children?

Like you, I'm older. I will not be around to see the nation collapse (probably). But I worry about the next generation. Because national collapse will bring enormous suffering. It already is for a lot of people. And yet they seem to be resigned to it. I don't think they realize how ugly things can get because our schools didn't teach them the history of oligarchy in the U.S. and about the age of the robber-barons before WW2. They don't realize that children worked barefoot in factories for 12 hours a day for nearly no money at all. They don't realize that adults were dying in their 40s from overwork, malnutrition, and lack of medical care because they were being worked so hard and paid so little. They don't realize that the oligarchs don't care if they or their children die in the streets like they do some third world nations. And there's no reason for it to happen except that the people being so abused refuse to stand up for themselves, and take their country and their economies back from the few greedy criminals who have gotten control of it.

We could do it right now without bloodshed, through a concerted and organized effort. But we won't. We'll continue to do nothing. And things will keep getting worse, and worse, and worse.

And I just don't understand that.
 

bybee

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What about your children?

Like you, I'm older. I will not be around to see the nation collapse (probably). But I worry about the next generation. Because national collapse will bring enormous suffering. It already is for a lot of people. And yet they seem to be resigned to it. I don't think they realize how ugly things can get because our schools didn't teach them the history of oligarchy in the U.S. and about the age of the robber-barons before WW2. They don't realize that children worked barefoot in factories for 12 hours a day for nearly no money at all. They don't realize that adults were dying in their 40s from overwork, malnutrition, and lack of medical care because they were being worked so hard and paid so little. They don't realize that the oligarchs don't care if they or their children die in the streets like they do some third world nations. And there's no reason for it to happen except that the people being so abused refuse to stand up for themselves, and take their country and their economies back from the few greedy criminals who have gotten control of it.

We could do it right now without bloodshed, through a concerted and organized effort. But we won't. We'll continue to do nothing. And things will keep getting worse, and worse, and worse.

And I just don't understand that.

Some of it is smugness and some of it is a sense of powerlessness and some of it is despair.
Much has been given to American citizens and a mantle of entitlement has settled around all of our necks like a slowly tightening noose.
So long as enormous greed lives in the hearts of those at the top, which includes our government, business tycoons and educators no change is possible.
A veritable "Sea-change" within humanity is necessary.
That may be accomplished in ways beyond my ken.
 

TrakeM

New member
I think the most puzzling thing about this for me isn't the fact of it. We have been moving toward oligarchy for a long time, and especially so since the Reagan-Bush-Bush neo-con era. I think what puzzles me most is that although we know this has happened, few of us really seem to care about it. It's as if we have simply resigned ourselves to being the victims of greed and corruption to the degree that we expect it. Even consider it inevitable.

Why is greed and corruption so easily accepted, even though it's destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans, and yet gay marriage, abortion and gun control are the issues that people get outraged about? It's almost as if we focus on these silly social issues to avoid facing the criminal malignancy of greed and corruption that is crippling us as a nation. Why are we Americans so prone to such epidemic avoidance and denial?
This is a large part of why I don't care for christianity. Christians tend to have no problem with limitless bribery and corruption. No, the problem god cares about is that there's two dudes kissing. I listen to christians talk about how god's wrath will be upon America if we don't start hating gay people, but god doesn't mind corruption. god is never interested in punishing a nation for bribery and corruption. god is worse than weak. god is petty.
 

bybee

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This is a large part of why I don't care for christianity. Christians tend to have no problem with limitless bribery and corruption. No, the problem god cares about is that there's two dudes kissing. I listen to christians talk about how god's wrath will be upon America if we don't start hating gay people, but god doesn't mind corruption. god is never interested in punishing a nation for bribery and corruption. god is worse than weak. god is petty.

It could be that God is concerned about people not satisfied with His plan? Male and female He created us for His own purposes. The continuation of the species requires male/female bonding and communal support.
 

Traditio

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I think the most puzzling thing about this for me isn't the fact of it. We have been moving toward oligarchy for a long time, and especially so since the Reagan-Bush-Bush neo-con era. I think what puzzles me most is that although we know this has happened, few of us really seem to care about it. It's as if we have simply resigned ourselves to being the victims of greed and corruption to the degree that we expect it. Even consider it inevitable.

Why is greed and corruption so easily accepted, even though it's destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of Americans, and yet gay marriage, abortion and gun control are the issues that people get outraged about? It's almost as if we focus on these silly social issues to avoid facing the criminal malignancy of greed and corruption that is crippling us as a nation. Why are we Americans so prone to such epidemic avoidance and denial?

What do you expect? It's an extremely abstract problem. It's hard for most people to get really fired up over abstract problems with no obvious, painless solution (thus the reason little gets done about things like climate change).

There are obvious solutions to things like gay "marriage," abortion and gun control. Pass specific, determinate forms of legislation.

But for something like climate change, or the forms of problems that you're talking about, it's not so easy: 1. to determine what the specific cause of the problem is or 2. what to do about it. And even if someone can determine the answers to 1 and 2, people won't like the solutions, no matter what they happen to be. The moment you start posing solutions, everybody is going to start seeing glaring problems with them.

I offered a solution, and you basically told me to come down from cloud 9.

I see with Plato that the following is obviously true: just as no amount of medical treatment will permanently and really help someone who lives an exceedingly unhealthy lifestyle, no amount of legislation will help a bad people with a bad constitution.

So what do I propose? A complete overhaul of a bad system and the institution of a truly kingly and authoritative rule, the institution of rulers who will shape, and not be shaped by, the ruled.

What we need are rulers who are concerned solely with justice, and care inordinately neither about the poor nor the rich, because they transcend and are separated from both. What we need are passionless judges who look down upon all citizens with equal disregard, and concern themselves solely with law, order and justice. It is only by effecting such a separation between rulers and ruled that the problems you described would be truly solved. Because then, they would be willing to pass real laws that are truly for the public interest, and when even the coorporate elite step over the line, bust down their office doors, remind the coorporate elite who really is the law, and then commence to busting some heads.

What we need is a government that makes even the coorporate elite afraid,* because they know that impartial, swift and harsh punishment awaits even them if they violate the law and the order of justice.

What we need is a government that money cannot buy (it being practically impossible, of course, to attain such things in a democratic system; therefore, my solution requires that every filthy trace of the taint of democracy be entirely scrubbed away from the public edifice, and, indeed, if it be possible, from the hearts and minds of the people).

But you'll tell me to come down from my fantasy scape.

Ok. What do you propose?



*Note, I mean this only in the sense that, according to St. Thomas, the law educates its citizens through fear, namely, of its punishments if they transgress its precepts.
 
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PureX

Well-known member
Ok. What do you propose?
I actually agree with your point about our needing great leaders, and then giving them the ability to create major change. But where are they? That just doesn't seem to be how history shakes out. Unfortunately, it appears that great leaders are very rare. And they tend not to come along when we need them most. Like now.

I can also see that societies have a kind of collective personality. And they can suffer collective personality disorders just as individuals can. And I do see our current society as being serious ill in a number of ways. And I don't know how we can address that, in house, so to speak. It's like the alcoholic is always the last one to recognize that he is alcoholic, while those who can see can't fix it.

We just do seem to be able to see ourselves heading for disaster, and so we just aren't willing to fight to change the direction we're going. I can see it, but mostly I feel like I'm alone. Everyone else wants to squabble over petty social issues while the whole ship of state is sinking into the ocean of greed and corruption.
 

kmoney

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New Study Proves U.S. Is Controlled By Rich And Powerful Elite


In another article, “The Rise of the Working Poor and the Non-Working Rich,” Reich points out that what despite many in Congress would have us believe, the rich really don’t work for their money.

It’s also commonly believed, especially among Republicans, that the rich deserve their wealth because they work harder than others. In reality, a large and growing portion of the super-rich have never broken a sweat. Their wealth has been handed to them. The rise of these two groups — the working poor and non-working rich — is relatively new. Both are challenging the core American assumptions that people are paid what they’re worth, and work is justly rewarded.

Who is this about? the rich who don't work for it.
 

The Barbarian

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This runs in cycles. The oligarchs run things until they get too greedy and self-satisfied, and then they collapse and are replaced. In three to four generations, the great houses fall.

That's how it works.
 

TrakeM

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It could be that God is concerned about people not satisfied with His plan? Male and female He created us for His own purposes. The continuation of the species requires male/female bonding and communal support.
Any plan that includes bribery and corruption isn't worth regarding, and any god that develops such a plan isn't worth respecting.
 
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