News from the Front... and Youth Groups

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Jefferson

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News from the Front... and Youth Groups

Thursday July 15th, 2004. This is show #141.

After this show an angry woman called in off the air and told a KGOV staffer, "Bob was very rude to that caller Ryan, and what Bob said about youth groups was terrible!" We thought that Bob was completely gracious to Ryan and that Ryan's only response was to agree with Bob's rather unusual comments about youth groups. what do you think?
 
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Jefferson

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PERTINENT QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

We don't want to use the young girls of Denver Bible Church as "bait" to attract teenage, testosterone-filled men to the church.
 

Lighthouse

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Originally posted by Chris Chrusher

I've seen the youth-groups thing first-hand. The single guys just go to meet and try to date cute, young, innocent chicks.
That's a blanket comment. And therfore it is untrue. Yes, some do, but not every single guy in a youth group goes just to meet girls. The same can be said of church as a whole. There are guys who go, just to meet women. Patrick Andrew, of PFR, first went to church because of a girl. He got saved, and went into ministry with Joel Hanson and Mark Nash. Now, that is not always the case, but it shows that youth groups are no different from church as a whole, in that respect. And I am a single male. I have never been married, and I went to youth group. And I didn't go to meet women. And I don't go to church to meet women, either. But I believe it is a better place to meet them than a bar is.
 

Jefferson

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I used to go to a church in Indianapolis with a singles class of about 1,000 young people. Yes, it was a "mega-church." It was well known that there were many nonchristian guys who would attend just to meet girls. Several of the girls got seduced, impregnated and dropped.
 

Nimrod

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From my own experience, 16 years ago, I too was going to a youth group. I never tried to "pick up chicks", I really wanted to get closer to God. I never once thought that the other boys were there "just" to pick up chicks.
 

Lagardo

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I am a youth pastor at a contemporary church and I want to say that I am very glad to hear someone questioning youth groups. Church youth groups as we know them came about primarily in the 60s & 70's as churches saw an overwhelming number of teenagers (ie. the baby boomers). The common rationale was that the church needed to be presented at the teenagers' level in order to retain these future church members and leaders. Thus, churches began to have youth services, youth mission trips, youth camps, etc. etc. etc. This type of ministry has become such a mainstay of our churches that we don't stop to question it. But here's the problem: This type of ministry has failed. It came about to "disciple" the baby boomers in their teen years. In general, the baby boomers left the church in droves, shortly after graduating from their youth groups.

Now, I don't presume to have all the answers. I am a "lifer" youth minister. I have an MDIV, I am liscensed and ordained. I am not a pastor-in-training. God has called me to pastor young people and that's what I do, but I do believe there are some real problems in an area that never gets questioned. Here's a few:

Youth Group Culture: youth ministry often presents the church in such a different way than the rest of the church that the youth become a part of a little subculture and find it difficult to "fit in" with the rest of the church.

Dating Evangelism: The youth ministry becomes a place to meet or bring a date. We can all point to that one sweet story we know of the non-christian boy who comes with his girlfriend and get saved. Great! I'm happy for Him and the angels are rejoicing...but does this justify the fact that we are in a sense, using our girls as bait when we encourage, allow, or promote this? Isn't there a better way to reach the non-christian boys?

Poor Goals: This goes along with my first comments about youth group culture. Far too often, we are satisfied when a teenager adopts the culture. He wears the WWJD braclet, buys the DC Talk CD, and shouts loudly when David Crowder sings "There is no one like you, there has never EVER BEEN ANYONE LIKE YOU!" The problem is, that this fruit is nothing like the fruit of the spirit the Bible speaks of. Churches become complacent with the lack of true discipleship. We meet goals of numbers of kids at six flags, but rarely see the numbers of kids who can actually lead their friends to Christ.

Parent-Unfriendly: Youth groups are very often parent-unfriendly. Granted, it is easy as a youth minister to become very frusterated by parents, but far too often, we become unreachable to the parents. The parents become completely unaware of anything we teach or do. God ordains the parents to "train up thier children" but we usurp this role rather than support it.

Seperate from the church: Way too often, the youth ministry runs independently from the church. The youth workers begin to see their own ministry as more important than the "adult" programs. Let me give you an example: I have made an unpoular choice lately. Next Sunday, a local church is hosting a music festival. 11 Christian rock bands are coming to play. Almost every youth group in town is going to skip thier sunday evening service and attend. We aren't. This sunday night is our "summit service," the "community" service to those of you who know willowcreek models. Its a time of worship, bible teaching, the Lord's Supper, and Baptism. I have had dozens of people come to me and try to explain that the youth will get more out of the festival or that they will worship at the festival. But you see, they won't be with thier church. They won't be in true fellowship (as in KOININEA), they won't be worshiping with the body as, I believe the Bible instructs. So we aren't going to the festival, but you'd be suprised how many people just don't understand why we can't miss this time in the "adult" service. I guess my point is that its not an "adult" service, its a church service. And the youth are a part of the church too.

Anyway, discuss further
 

Lucky

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Originally posted by Chris Chrusher

I've seen the youth-groups thing first-hand. The single guys just go to meet and try to date cute, young, innocent chicks.
I like lighthouse's response:
Originally posted by lighthouse

That's a blanket comment. And therfore it is untrue. Yes, some do, but not every single guy in a youth group goes just to meet girls.
I am not very social. But I do like to study the Bible. That's the reason why I attended youth groups as a teenager. As a bonus, I got to fellowship with other Christians my age. Yes, that included Christian gals. Were they the "bait" that attracted me to the youth group? Absolutely not.
The same can be said of church as a whole. There are guys who go, just to meet women.
Would that be wrong? :think:
 

Lagardo

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Well, I'm honored to have the post of the day!

Christine, in answer to your question, I am not opposed to churches having ministries geared specificaly toward teens, or singles, or elderly, or any group. I just think that instead of going with the status quo, we need to continue to evaluate what we do and make sure that we are truly discipling as we have been called to do. My list of problems is really more of a list of personal challenges that I try to remind myself of all the time.
 

Lighthouse

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Lagardo-
I think you did a wonderful job in not attending the festival. But we must also remember that guys are not the only ones who go to church to meet people. Girls do it too. But not all of them. It's not ahy I went. It's not why Lucky went and it's not why Nimrod went. I also have friends from the youth groups I've attended. None of them went, just to meet dates.
 

Jefferson

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Originally posted by lighthouse

Lagardo-
I think you did a wonderful job in not attending the festival. But we must also remember that guys are not the only ones who go to church to meet people. Girls do it too. But not all of them. It's not ahy I went. It's not why Lucky went and it's not why Nimrod went. I also have friends from the youth groups I've attended. None of them went, just to meet dates.
lighthouse: If you checked out a new youth group and it had great teaching but not 1 hot . . . er . . . pretty girl, ( :p )would you still join it?
 
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Zakath

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But aren't young people often encouraged to seek out like minded folks for relationships in their youth groups?

... all that "how can two walk together unless they be agreed" preaching... :think:
 

Lighthouse

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Originally posted by Jefferson

lighthouse: If you checked out a new youth group and it had great teaching but not 1 hot . . . er . . . pretty girl, ( :p )would you still join it?
If I joined a youth group at my age, and was looking for girls, I think there would be a serious problem...
 

Lagardo

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One of my biggest blessings in youth ministry was seeing a young man who was attending simply to get more time with his girlfriend (who was raised in the church but was not a Christian) come to know Christ. I could easliy say that I'm glad he dated her and came to see her, but I don't think the ends justify the means, and if he were on this forum he would tell you that he suffers a lot to this day for that immoral relationship.
 

Jefferson

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Originally posted by lighthouse

If I joined a youth group at my age, and was looking for girls, I think there would be a serious problem...
Oh come on. You know what I meant by "girl." My grandfather, in referring to his wife and the other ladies her age at a family reunion would ask, "Where are the girls?"

So let's try it again: If you checked out a new youth group and it had great teaching but not even 1 female that you would consider dating, would you still join it?
 
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