ECT Mark 8:35

[nikolai_42]

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mark 8:34-38

Of what is Jesus speaking when He says "lose his life"? If that is only to be taken literally, then we should learn from Muslim suicide bombers who do what they do to gain eternal life. And since the context of the surrounding scriptures doesn't seem to support that interpretation anyway, there can be little doubt that Jesus is speaking in less concrete terms.

So what does it mean that we are called to lose our lives for His sake (and the sake of the gospel)? How is "life" to be understood in this context? Is that the best avenue for understanding what it means to lose one's life? Jesus speaking about being ashamed of Him seems to imply (very strongly) that this loss of life is tied inextricably to being His. That is, if you don't lose your life (and whatever that carries with it) you are ashamed of Him and His teaching.

Is denying one's self, taking up one's cross and following Christ 3 distinct things that need to be adhered to (in succession) or are they (more or less) referring to the same thing?

 

[DAN P]

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mark 8:34-38

Of what is Jesus speaking when He says "lose his life"? If that is only to be taken literally, then we should learn from Muslim suicide bombers who do what they do to gain eternal life. And since the context of the surrounding scriptures doesn't seem to support that interpretation anyway, there can be little doubt that Jesus is speaking in less concrete terms.

So what does it mean that we are called to lose our lives for His sake (and the sake of the gospel)? How is "life" to be understood in this context? Is that the best avenue for understanding what it means to lose one's life? Jesus speaking about being ashamed of Him seems to imply (very strongly) that this loss of life is tied inextricably to being His. That is, if you don't lose your life (and whatever that carries with it) you are ashamed of Him and His teaching.

Is denying one's self, taking up one's cross and following Christ 3 distinct things that need to be adhered to (in succession) or are they (more or less) referring to the same thing?

Hi and since no one has responded , here is my take !!

31 , This is not for the Body of Christ as we have OSAS salvation !!

#2 , There 5 verbs here and " SHALL LOSE " is a verb in the FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the Indicative Mood !!

#3, the second verb is also in the " SHALL SAVE " is also in the FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and kin the Indicative Mood , so what does this mean ??

#4 , The Active Voice means that God is controling the ACTION in both verbs !!

The Indicative Mood meams verse 35 is a FACT!!

So when does this EVENT HAPPENS ??

This EVENT HAPPENS during Jesus Christ second coming when they will find out their LOST or SALVATION !!

This is my short answer !!

And the third verb is in the SUBJUCTIVE MOOD and that is what CONTROLS verse 35 !!

dan p

 

[Bradley D]

To me it is living in a life of the Holy Spirit and not a life concerned with worldly things.

 

[Interplanner]

Everything Jesus said was into 1st century Judaism, which was 'seeking to establish its own righeousness, but not submitting to the righteousness that comes from God.' The person in Judaism was taught to adhere closely to the terms of the old covenant, so as to obligate God to bless his life, and more exactly (in the Zealot's thinking) to qualify for God's supernatural messianic help to free Israel.

Those who sought to follow the Law this way would lose the life or 'accumulation' of accomplishment. They would even lose the land and the temple. Those who let go of it in favor of Christ's message, Gospel and mission would gain 100-fold family, and "things" (so long as they also were used for the mission) and eternal life.

 

[Danoh]

Everything Jesus said was into 1st century Judaism, which was 'seeking to establish its own righeousness, but not submitting to the righteousness that comes from God.' The person in Judaism was taught to adhere closely to the terms of the old covenant, so as to obligate God to bless his life, and more exactly (in the Zealot's thinking) to qualify for God's supernatural messianic help to free Israel.

Those who sought to follow the Law this way would lose the life or 'accumulation' of accomplishment. They would even lose the land and the temple. Those who let go of it in favor of Christ's message, Gospel and mission would gain 100-fold family, and "things" (so long as they also were used for the mission) and eternal life.

So much for what the Spirit confiemed through Zachariah in Luke 1.

You are clueless.

 

[Interplanner]

So much for what the Spirit confiemed through Zachariah in Luke 1.

You are clueless.

You are reading that veiled.

 

[Danoh]

You are reading that veiled.

Yeah; through the passage and the OT that Luke reports there that the Spirit confirmed through Zachariah's words...

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

You can't have it both ways, Interplanner; the fact is that Israel's mission was then still headed towards its' Prophesied intended coarse and the arrival of John the Baptist and the Lord were a part of said directed coarse.

Said directed coarse tied to Israel's promised liberation from their enemies FIRST; the foreign POLITICAL power then over them.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

 

[Interplanner]

Yeah; through the passage and the OT that Luke reports there that the Spirit confirmed through Zachariah's words...

You can't have it both ways, Interplanner; the fact is that Israel's mission was then still headed towards its' Prophesied intended coarse and the arrival of John the Baptist and the Lord were a part of said directed coarse.

Said directed coarse tied to Israel's promised liberation from their enemies FIRST; the foreign POLITICAL power then over them.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

lol, so deep runs 2P2P. What do the apostles say? Nothing of the sort. The teacher of righteousness stepped to the podium, read Isaiah 60 and said 'Today the Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing'--after being announced as the Lamb of God (which of course meant nothing to Judaism, did it now), and that the kingdom was all around.

He cringed at the wrath that was coming and couldn't read that line. I don't think I could have either, if I had any empathy.

 

[Danoh]

lol, so deep runs 2P2P. What do the apostles say? Nothing of the sort. The teacher of righteousness stepped to the podium, read Isaiah 60 and said 'Today the Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing'--after being announced as the Lamb of God (which of course meant nothing to Judaism, did it now), and that the kingdom was all around.

He cringed at the wrath that was coming and couldn't read that line. I don't think I could have either, if I had any empathy.

There you go; reading into why He closed the scroll at that point.

Fact is that had He continued reading that passage, He would not have been able to say that what He had just read was fulfilled right then and there, for as Matthew three also relates, the next part of that passage was yet to come to pass.

Sorry, brother, but in this, yours is once more not the reasoning of a thing through the Scriptures, but through the reasoning of men.

And again I return to a respectful tone towards you for you to now once throw another of your gauntlets - that what you want is a two way disrespect.

You know me; ever eager to please, I'll oblige ya :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

There you go; reading into why He closed the scroll at that point.

Fact is that had He continued reading that passage, He would not have been able to say that what He had just read was fulfilled right then and there, for as Matthew three also relates, the next part of that passage was yet to come to pass.

Sorry, brother, but in this, yours is once more not the reasoning of a thing through the Scriptures, but through the reasoning of men.

And again I return to a respectful tone towards you for you to now once throw another of your gauntlets - that what you want is a two way disrespect.

You know me; ever eager to please, I'll oblige ya :chuckle:

That's only true if you read the bible 'theologically' He was also human. He couldn't bear to read the next. Nothing you've said is either plain or true.

Try to be more specific in communication. Mt 3 what. I know you are busy with self-worship but this time it matters whether you mean 8 or all 7-12, which would have been there because John knew Dan 9's ending was coming. The 'guarantee' because they were Abraham's seed? If so, then review the thread on Gal 3:17.

There is no hesitation in John to say those things and to say that Christ will judge Israel sharply, so the only reason not to finish reading Is 60 was the horror of it.

 

[Danoh]

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

He stopped at Isaiah 61:2A.

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Because B - this here "and the day of vengeance of our God;" - was yet future.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

That is what rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15) is a reference to, in contrast to "profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness (v. 16)...of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus (v. 17); 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[Danoh]

That's only true if you read the bible 'theologically' He was also human. He couldn't bear to read the next. Nothing you've said is either plain or true.

Try to be more specific in communication. Mt 3 what. I know you are busy with self-worship but this time it matters whether you mean 8 or all 7-12, which would have been there because John knew Dan 9's ending was coming. The 'guarantee' because they were Abraham's seed? If so, then review the thread on Gal 3:17.

There is no hesitation in John to say those things and to say that Christ will judge Israel sharply, so the only reason not to finish reading Is 60 was the horror of it.

So says the Preterist self-styled "historian" - what a mess...

 

[Interplanner]

The pause at Is 60 is one of the main framings of the idea that all of Mt24 was to happen in 66 AD but God grieved to do so.

You were going to explain something about Mt 3 and John's warning I believe, but you are too self-important and too self-worshiping to do so? Can you do something about that?