Liberal and the Holidays
- Thread starter Nimrod
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Nimrod
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Yes.
Even though the ad is funny, I still think that it not just liberals who hate the holidays. Like me.
Many reasons why the holidays are bad.
Alcohol consumption is at it highest peak during these times.
Buy presents for people who you don't like.
Massive credit card debt.
Pagan influence.
Matt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"
Jesus never commanded us to set a day that we should celebrate His birth.
Even though the ad is funny, I still think that it not just liberals who hate the holidays. Like me.
Many reasons why the holidays are bad.
Alcohol consumption is at it highest peak during these times.
Buy presents for people who you don't like.
Massive credit card debt.
Pagan influence.
Matt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you"
Jesus never commanded us to set a day that we should celebrate His birth.
As a "liberal," please allow me to argue against your reasoning.
Is alcohol consumption necessarily wrong? I doubt that you could prove so. In fact, there are verses that seem to say just the opposite. For instance Proverbs 31:4-9, not to mention all the times we see Jesus drinking wine (or turning water into wine).
That sounds like a personal problem. I only buy presents for people I like. Call me exclusive if you want, but...
Sounds like another personal problem. I am not a master strategist when it comes to fiscal planning, but I have never gone into debt over some holiday gifts.
Let me suggest a few other things that Pagan influence:
1. The United States Government
2. All of agriculture
3. History
4. Literature
5. The Bible
6. The Athlete's Foot (a shoe company)
7. The idea of a supreme spiritual nemesis
8. The church
Basically, the reason why many of our holidays coincide so nicely with Pagan holidays and influence is because around 476, the Christian church faced a major dilema. Between 324 and 476, the Roman Empire lended great support to Christianity. However, in 476, Rome as sacked by somme Germanic tribes, and the church was left to become the ruling authority. Many in the church were concerned because people were celebrating Pagan holidays, and partaking in Pagan rituals. The church knew that they could not get people to stop altogether, so they decided to incorporate Christian themes into these holidays so that at least they will be worshiping God, even if they are participating in archaic rituals.
As a "Liberal," and a free thinker--not bound by political status--I support holidays.
Is alcohol consumption necessarily wrong? I doubt that you could prove so. In fact, there are verses that seem to say just the opposite. For instance Proverbs 31:4-9, not to mention all the times we see Jesus drinking wine (or turning water into wine).
That sounds like a personal problem. I only buy presents for people I like. Call me exclusive if you want, but...
Sounds like another personal problem. I am not a master strategist when it comes to fiscal planning, but I have never gone into debt over some holiday gifts.
Let me suggest a few other things that Pagan influence:
1. The United States Government
2. All of agriculture
3. History
4. Literature
5. The Bible
6. The Athlete's Foot (a shoe company)
7. The idea of a supreme spiritual nemesis
8. The church
Basically, the reason why many of our holidays coincide so nicely with Pagan holidays and influence is because around 476, the Christian church faced a major dilema. Between 324 and 476, the Roman Empire lended great support to Christianity. However, in 476, Rome as sacked by somme Germanic tribes, and the church was left to become the ruling authority. Many in the church were concerned because people were celebrating Pagan holidays, and partaking in Pagan rituals. The church knew that they could not get people to stop altogether, so they decided to incorporate Christian themes into these holidays so that at least they will be worshiping God, even if they are participating in archaic rituals.
As a "Liberal," and a free thinker--not bound by political status--I support holidays.
Nimrod
Member
Let me say that most of the Christain population wants Christmas. Or should I spell it Christ-MASS.
Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
Deut 12:8 "Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes."
First of all Christ never commanded us to set a day for the celebration of His birth. Only God chooses Holy Days. See Lev. 23, Numbers 28,29, Deut 16. The only day which we Christians should celebrate is the "LORD's Day".
Jeremiah 7:31 "which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart."
Remember Saul saved his sacrifices for later. And he was rebuked by Samuel for doing so.
Deut 12:32 "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."
I understand I am out numbered on my belief here, well maybe not.
The Reformers didn't approve of this, the Westminster Confession didn't approve of it, John Knox talked against it, Charles Spurgeon also. John Calvin never talked against it but he never approved it.
It was only until 100 years ago did the protestants start to compromise.
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Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
Deut 12:8 "Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes."
First of all Christ never commanded us to set a day for the celebration of His birth. Only God chooses Holy Days. See Lev. 23, Numbers 28,29, Deut 16. The only day which we Christians should celebrate is the "LORD's Day".
Jeremiah 7:31 "which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart."
Remember Saul saved his sacrifices for later. And he was rebuked by Samuel for doing so.
Deut 12:32 "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."
I understand I am out numbered on my belief here, well maybe not.
The Reformers didn't approve of this, the Westminster Confession didn't approve of it, John Knox talked against it, Charles Spurgeon also. John Calvin never talked against it but he never approved it.
It was only until 100 years ago did the protestants start to compromise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"
Greetings. Concerning Christmas, I don't celebrate because there's just no indication given by the Lord to do so. If anything, I am led by Deut 12:29-31. Essentially, God is saying, don't do unto me as you do unto them. God has already stated how He wants to be worshipped. Then there's Lev 10:1-3 and 2 Sam 6:2-7. God's very particular about how He's to be worshipped, and even carried. When Paul wrote about Christians' liberties, I don't think he was meaning as far as worshipping God. Sure, eat that pagan meat. Big whoop. But don't do it as an act of worship for the Lord our God.
Poly
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There's no indication on celebrating birthdays either. You give presents in your celebration of a time of year. You celebrate Christ in being more aware of your rememberance of Him in listening to songs about his birth and fellowshipping with others who are also more aware of Him. There both just done at the same time but I don't see why giving gifts must represent your worship of God.
Polycarpadvo wrote:
"There's no indication on celebrating birthdays either. You give presents in your celebration of a time of year. You celebrate Christ in being more aware of your rememberance of Him in listening to songs about his birth and fellowshipping with others who are also more aware of Him. There both just done at the same time but I don't see why giving gifts must represent your worship of God.
"There's no indication on celebrating birthdays either. You give presents in your celebration of a time of year. You celebrate Christ in being more aware of your rememberance of Him in listening to songs about his birth and fellowshipping with others who are also more aware of Him. There both just done at the same time but I don't see why giving gifts must represent your worship of God.
Polycarpadvo wrote:
"There's no indication on celebrating birthdays either. You give presents in your celebration of a time of year. You celebrate Christ in being more aware of your rememberance of Him in listening to songs about his birth and fellowshipping with others who are also more aware of Him. There both just done at the same time but I don't see why giving gifts must represent your worship of God."
Let's recall that only 2 birthday celebrations are noted in Scripture: Pharoah's in Gen 40:20 and Herod's in Mt 14:6 and Mk 6:21. Pagans. And let's recall what Scriptures say in Eccl 7:1, "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death, than the day of birth." If celebrating the birth of God's Son was important to God (and that's really all that matters), then He'd have managed to indicate so to us. But He's given no date specifically and certainly He would not want us to share with pagan rituals. In any case, when I want to be "more aware" I read His book. And listen to Pastor Bob.
"There's no indication on celebrating birthdays either. You give presents in your celebration of a time of year. You celebrate Christ in being more aware of your rememberance of Him in listening to songs about his birth and fellowshipping with others who are also more aware of Him. There both just done at the same time but I don't see why giving gifts must represent your worship of God."
Let's recall that only 2 birthday celebrations are noted in Scripture: Pharoah's in Gen 40:20 and Herod's in Mt 14:6 and Mk 6:21. Pagans. And let's recall what Scriptures say in Eccl 7:1, "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death, than the day of birth." If celebrating the birth of God's Son was important to God (and that's really all that matters), then He'd have managed to indicate so to us. But He's given no date specifically and certainly He would not want us to share with pagan rituals. In any case, when I want to be "more aware" I read His book. And listen to Pastor Bob.
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