I would like to start this round by again saying thanks to Theology Online for putting on these Battle Royales. It was from hearing about them on Bob Enyart’s radio shows that I originally began to read the Battle Royales on TOL. I didn’t officially join the site until this year, but it has been very enjoyable for me. I believe this is the greatest website in the world!
Ok so on with round #3!!
What happens when we die?
Throughout this debate, there have been a lot of things said and suggested by Universalists and others, the Bible is very plain about what happens after we die.
Hebrews 9:27-28
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
When an unbeliever dies they face judgment. That is it. There are no more opportunities to repent after death.
Further proof:
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 shows us that when Christians die we go right to be with the Lord:
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Stephen,
You said:
My answer:
God made a way out for sinful man to be saved through His Son Jesus Christ. God didn’t have to do that at all! He decided to do it as a result of man’s sin and His love for mankind. There is a big clue in Scripture about why the Lake of Fire was originally created. It states it was created for the Devil and his angels. That was its original purpose. But then man sinned and rebelled against God. This made man’s condemnation the same as that of the devil. You can tell God not to create a permanent death or hell all you want to, but He is God and that is what He did! That much is obvious, even to my feeble mind. :dizzy:
The tree of life:
If man had been allowed to continue eating from the tree of life, he would have physically lived forever without dying. This could no longer be allowed because God had decreed that death would be a result of man’s sin. This is why God told Adam if he ate of the fruit he would die. And that death was not just a physical death but also a spiritual one. Do you realize that without the glorious sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ that not ONE SINGLE PERSON would ever be able to escape eternal torment in the Lake of Fire? This is because that death is what we have each earned due to our sin!
Job 31:2-4
For what is the allotment of God from above, And the inheritance of the Almighty from on high? 3 Is it not destruction for the wicked, And disaster for the workers of iniquity?
Psalm 36:12
12 There the workers of iniquity have fallen; They have been cast down and are not able to rise.
Romans 6:23 tells us that the WAGES of sin is DEATH!
Because of sin we have all EARNED death. (Me included!) This is why we die physically and if we do not accept God’s atoning sacrifice for our sins found in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, we will also die spiritually by spending all eternity in the Lake of Fire.
All or FEW?
Look with me at the following passage from Luke 13:22-28
22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
Now this is a plain question. They were beginning to understand exactly what he was saying. Only a few actually will exercise saving faith because of the stubbornness and pride of men who are not willing to repent of their sins. Now look at what the Lord says:
And He said to them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
PastorKevin Question #15: Is Jesus a liar? Will all be saved as Universalism tries to assert? Or is Jesus correct when He says many will seek to enter and will not be able?
PastorKevin Question #16: Is the gate narrow? Jesus also said the way to life is very narrow! IS the way to life narrow and only a few find it as Jesus says in John?
25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’
The Lord is clearly illustrating what judgment day will be like. They will be turned away because they do not KNOW the Lord!
PastorKevin Question #17: Is this passage true? Will many try to get into Heaven under false pretenses and not be let in because they do not know Christ? IF Universalism is true and all are saved, why are they turned away by the Lord in this illustration?
26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
This is again just talking about doing good works and serving Christ. These people were depending on their works to save them!
27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’
Though these people were doing things they thought would get them to Heaven, Christ calls them workers of iniquity and tells them flat out to depart. In laymen’s terms He is saying “Get lost!”
Departing from God is also being out of the presence of God. The worst aspect of the Lake of Fire is the eternal separation from God and not the tormenting fire!
28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
Notice the statement there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is a very clear description of Hell that is used in the New Testament to describe what Hell will be like! It is a place of devastating torment, and according the Bible lasts forever and ever!
Replies to General Statements:
You said:
This isn’t true. Hell doesn’t prevent God from saving all men. SIN keeps God from saving all men. Unless they repent of that sin they cannot see the Kingdom of God!
You said:
Dah Nope, George me no comprehend. Me only comprehend that Universalism be false teaching ayup ayup! :dizzy:
No. Dante’s inferno is a false conception of Hell as well. It is only fiction, however and not the Bible!
Really? Were the Jews the authors of the Bible? Yes. Were the Jews the authors of the Old Testament? Yes! Do we find a description in the Old Testament of eternal punishment? YES!
Proverbs 11:7
7 When a wicked man dies, his expectation will perish,
And the hope of the unjust perishes.
Psalm 11:6-7
6 Upon the wicked He will rain coals; Fire and brimstone and a burning wind Shall be the portion of their cup.
7 For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.
Psalm 140:10
10 Let burning coals fall upon them; Let them be cast into the fire, Into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
Is. 66:24
24 “ And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
This is the verse that our Lord Jesus Christ quoted in the New Testament (Mark 9), and He repeated it THREE TIMES to add the emphasis that it had not changed. The wicked unredeemed who do not accept Christ’s atoning sacrifice for their sins will be cast into the Lake of Fire, where their worm does not die (their bodies will NEVER be destroyed by the fire, but will burn forever), and the fire is not quenched!(Never goes out)
Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
PERFECT description of what the New Testament plainly teaches and expounds upon. It is CRYSTAL CLEAR from this verse that everlasting life and everlasting punishment were in the teachings of the Jews.
Now in our talks about Greek you repeatedly try to take away the eternal meaning in the words which are translated eternal. I have shown you time and again how those words consistently mean eternal. Well here we have a Hebrew word that means everlasting. It is the word “Olam” and it means everlasting here. Just as it does in the following places:
Genesis 21:33 It is used to describe God as the “everlasting God”
Jeremiah 10:10: It describes God as the “everlasting King”
Isaiah 9:6: He is called the “Everlasting Father”
(These are a small few uses of the word, there are loads of others!)
PastorKevin Question #18: Is God an everlasting God? Is He an everlasting King? Is He the everlasting Father?
If you said "yes" to these questions, then the wicked will awake to everlasting contempt! You cannot pick and choose! Just as you cannot pick and choose when and where you want Aion and the words that come from it to mean eternal! Here is what has happened: Universalism has come along and redefined words in the Bible in order to support its false teaching. They change words to mean what they want them to mean! Everlasting contempt destroys the false teachings of Universalism and Annihilationism. If the contempt is everlasting, they don’t get out and they don’t burn up.
In response to my question #7 you agreed and said Yes that Jesus is telling the truth. The same verbage Jesus uses in the verse I quoted leading up to that question (John 6:47) is used by Jesus in regards to everlasting punishment. It’s the same word used exactly the same way! So if you agree that Jesus is telling the truth about eternal life, why do you deny what HE ALSO CLEARLY SAYS ABOUT ETERNAL PUNISHMENT?
My question #8 was: Will Satan and the fallen angels be in Heaven for all eternity? If so, by WHAT means will they get there? Please cite the Scripture verse that refutes them being in the Lake of Fire forever and ever. Please show where Salvation that is found in the God man, Jesus Christ, is also open to fallen angels and Satan. How could Christ the God-Man pay a penalty for the sins of angels?
You said:
Stephen this is barely a response my friend. I am glad you were big enough to admit that you don’t know. And if you had left it there, it would have been a more sufficient answer.
But you continue on and say they are either totally obliterated-yet you give no Scripture to support that which I clearly asked for.
The Bible plainly says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire and there they will be forever and ever. I listed a long list of verses in which contain the statement: “Eis tous aionas ton ainon” and how it is translated all 18 times to mean forever and ever. Included in that is a very clear reference to the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. Every time it is used it means forever and ever, INCLUDING when it refers to the torment of the wicked being day and night forever and ever. That is a very clear statement in Scripture. In order to prove your point you would need to supply some Scripture that refutes this, and you did not and have not. It is because NO SUCH SCRIPTURE EXISTS my friend.
Secondly in your response you say they
If that is the case, WHAT PAYS FOR THEIR SIN? Without the shed blood of Jesus Christ there is no remission for sins. As my question plainly stated, and I will restate again: HOW COULD CHRIST THE GOD-MAN PAY A PENALTY FOR THE SIN OF ANGELS?
PastorKevin Question #19: Please cite the Scripture verse that shows that the blood of Christ was shed for the sins of angels. Please show even ONE SINGLE VERSE that clearly shows fallen angels repenting of their sins or having their sins forgiven, and by what means they obtain forgiveness, or else concede that no such verse exists for goodness sakes.
My question #11 was: If a person doesn’t repent, can his sins be forgiven by the Lord anyway?
Your answer:
Here is what the Bible says:
Isaiah 59:1-2
1 Behold, the LORD’s hand is not shortened,That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
Sin is such an awful offense to God that it separates us from Him. Man is by his very nature sinful and thus separated from God. This is what led Christ to come and sacrifice His life for us, so that we can have that gap of separation that exists between man and God closed!
John the Baptist and Jesus BOTH came preaching repentance right from the very beginning of their ministries. Jesus said in Luke 13:3- I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Repent or perish is what Jesus said. Not me, but Jesus Christ Himself!
Jesus says a person must repent or perish. Universalism says their sins are already forgiven even BEFORE they repent? Once again, Universalism is shown to be false teaching when it is compared to the Word of God!
My Question #12 was: Please cite the Bible verses which show a person repenting after death. Or do you refute the Bible when it says that a person can only have his sins blotted out by repenting of them?
You answered:
Then you quoted John 11:25. Now first of all you did not provide a verse that shows a person repenting after death. Here is John 11:25 IN CONTEXT:
Jesus has gone to where Lazarus had died.
Martha when she hears Jesus is coming goes to Him and here is what happens:
21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
Now this verse takes a completely different meaning then the one you tried to force upon it. It doesn’t show in any way that a person can repent after they die. Jesus says when someone believes in Him, even if they die, they will live. Jesus doesn’t say “He who believes in me AFTER he dies will live”.
This is proven to be true by the very next verse: verse 26: “And whoever LIVES AND BELIEVES IN ME shall never die”! Not only does this clearly speak against the belief that people can repent after they die, it clearly shows that the requirement for believing includes believing while WE LIVE!
My Question #13 was: Please cite where in the Bible it says, “The fire is not quenched until it can consume everything it can consume.”
This question was a direct feed off of your statement of the same words after I had asked you to show Scripturally that the fire in the Lake of Fire was quenched. You had responded with this statement:
“
I asked you to show where that is in the Bible. I guess I should have been more specific and said to show in Scripture where it says that in relation to the Lake of Fire. But you answered by quoting Hebrews 12:26-29, Deut. 4:24, and 1 Cor. 3:14-15
Is God the Lake of Fire, Stephen?
In the passages in Hebrews and Deut. it says that our God is a consuming fire. You never showed anywhere Scripturally where the fire in the Lake of Fire is quenched. Or are you trying to make the assertion that God is the Lake of Fire? Also the passage in 1 Cor. 3:14-15 is about believers being judged for rewards and the motives with which they did their works. It has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire being quenched nor does it say anything remotely close to that.
Again, Jesus repeated THREE TIMES in Mark 9:42-48 that the fire of torment is NOT QUENCHED.
And for my Question #14, you never actually supplied an answer, but were non-responsive in your reply. You were right. I was asking a loaded question. I was going for the knockout punch too early. But you could have answered honestly. I mean IF Satan, the Beast, the False Prophet, and all those whose names aren’t written in the Book of Life do NOT ever get out of the Lake of Fire and are tormented day and night forever and ever then Universalism IS false teaching. That was the only reasoning I was trying to apply in asking this question. I still hold out hope to win you away from these false doctrines of Universalism and hope we can talk about it further privately long after this debate is over!
Oh those contradictions:
In your response under the term Biblical you posted a bunch of “contradictions” that "you" say people who believe in eternal punishment believe. Some of them are downright silly to be honest, and many are not the positions that I myself or others who believe what the Bible says about eternal torment in the Lake of Fire believe.
Here is an example of a verse used in those “contradictions” that is clearly taken out of context:
1 Cor 3:15 is about Christian rewards. If a Christian does things out of the wrong motives his rewards will be burned up, but he himself will be saved. This is referring to the Judgment Seat of Christ when all Christians are judged for rewards.
You didn’t pose any of these as direct questions for me, so I will not spend a lot of time responding to them. I will only say that many of them contain complete and total misunderstandings of our position or outright misinterpretations of the Scriptures themselves. I would be glad to talk through these with you privately sometime if you like.
I will address what you said was the “One thing that really, really bothers me”:
Jesus is divine! Jesus is God!
Jesus is the eternal, divine Son of the Living God. He is co-equal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and has been for all eternity. Your question is best answered by understanding that when Jesus was hanging on the cross, He was man, but He was also God. He was (and is) the God-Man. When He gave His life, He paid the penalty for our sins. He bore the punishment that you and I deserved on that Cross. That is why He does not have to be in torment forever and ever. The torment He took on that cross was eternal at that time! This is what allows us to fully understand the atonement! He became a “curse for us”(Gal. 3:13).
Jesus is eternal, thus He was able to pay an eternal penalty in a finite period of time!
Answering The Questions:
PKA-LogosQ13: The answer is in the text. And it is no. Let’s look at it, but first let’s get something straight: Judgment is something that is forced upon us. Judgment is not something that someone generally seeks after. What is a gift? A gift is something that is freely given, and not forced. By the theology of Universalism, the free gift of salvation is not a gift, it is forced.
Now lets look briefly at the text you quoted, Romans 5:18 (IN CONTEXT):with the rest of the chapter:
In verse #1 he tells us that we are justified by faith, and because we are justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Could Universalism be true if this verse is true? Not at all. Without faith we cannot have peace with God. Without our Lord Jesus Christ we cannot have peace with God! By the false teaching of Universalism, it wouldn’t matter if a person were a Satanist, an atheist, a God-hater, whatever, they would all die and eventually get to go to Heaven anyway. You can argue this isn’t what you believe all you like, but it is. You believe that all means all. That all will be reconciled to God. But the Bible doesn’t teach that. Only the misinterpretations of Universalism!
In verse #2 Paul makes it very clear that it is through Christ that we have “access by faith into this grace in which we stand”. Again without Christ, there is NO ACCESS!
In verses 3-4 he talks about the mindset Christians should have about tribulations and trials.
In verse #5 he makes it even more clear he is talking about Christians when he says the love of God has been “poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.” You cannot have the Holy Spirit in your heart if you are not a Christian.
In verses 6-8, Paul spells out for us that Christ died for the ungodly, his enemies! God died for men who had sinned against Him and because of their sin were separated from a Holy God. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us!
Verses 9-10 clearly show us that we (those of us who are saved) have been saved from wrath through Him despite the fact that we are His enemies!
Verse 11 shows that we who are saved have NOW received the reconciliation. It isn’t some future thing that will one day happen! We have been reconciled to God right now. Present tense.
Now verse 12 begins a different section of the Scripture for us. But it shows us that through Adam sinned entered the world. Through Adam death came into the world and spread to all men.
Now the exciting part is if you look at verse 15 you will see a wonderful truth: “But the free gift is NOT like the offense.” This is an important statement to understanding this text. Why? Because the gift is not forced on people like the offense was due to the sin of Adam. The gift is a free gift!
Here is what Universalism makes God to be like:
The Psycho Chef (By Kevin Richeson)
Suppose you have some friends over for dinner, and you surprise them by telling them you have baked some delicious blueberry muffins. Suppose your friend’s husband says he doesn’t want a muffin. You try to offer it to him and he refuses to eat it. You try to tell him how good it is, even eating some in front of him and saying, “Mmmmm it’s good.” But he still refuses it. The muffins are still a free gift, and at any time he could pick up a muffin and eat it, but he refuses it. You still made the muffins for all of your guests too, but that doesn't mean they all accept them!
Now suppose as he is walking out the door you grab him, throw him on the ground and CRAM the muffin down his throat! “I TOLD YOU THAT YOU ARE GOING TO EAT THE MUFFINS I MADE FOR YOU! THEY ARE FREE AND THEY ARE GIFTS! EAT THEM!” But he refuses to swallow. So you hold him down, choking him, until he agrees to eat the muffin.
Now is he really eating the muffin because he wants to? NO! He is eating it simply out of necessity which is not the same thing as accepting a free gift! This is what Universalism makes God to be like! A psychopathic God! In reality, God offers a free gift, men refuse it.
But wait, lets go one further: let’s suppose the muffin had in it a cure for a disease that the man has. Let’s say the man knows that the muffin holds the cure for his disease and still refuses to eat of it because he would have to swallow his pride, or just because he doesn’t like muffins? Would it still be right to hold him down and force him to eat the muffin? Would it still be right to hold him down until he decides to eat the muffin? NO! But that is how Universalism tries to paint God, and God’s free gift of salvation.
Oh and also, another thing. The chef made ENOUGH muffins for all of the guests. (Even the ones who refused could have had muffins if they chose to). Did all of the guests want the muffins? NO!
Christ's sacrifice being made for all means that it is available to ALL! But they must receive the free gift of salvation in order to get it! I just don't know how much more clear it can be made than that!
So the free gift is not like the offense Paul says. Paul goes on in verses 15-16 to explain further how the gift is not like the offense. The judgment leads to condemnation, the gift to justification.
Verse #17 of this text is so AWESOME because it utterly destroys Universalism:
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Death reigns on the human race right now because of the sin of the one. But look, who reigns in life? Who? THOSE WHO RECEIVE ABUDANCE OF GRACE AND OF THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS! Whoa!
Does it say ALL will reign in life through Jesus Christ? NO! It says those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness! This is a clear description of the saved who have received the free gift of salvation which fits perfectly with all of the rest of the Bible!
So NOW we come finally to verse #18 (which is why it is so important to understand context), and we read its words. We see that through one man’s offense, judgment came. But we know that only those who accept the free gift are saved. So why does it say the free gift came to all men? Because the free gift is available to all men. IT’S A GIFT! A gift that is given freely. Gifts must be accepted or they aren’t gifts. They just aren’t. Not in any language! Greek, Hebrew, English, doesn’t matter. Gifts are gifts are gifts. And that is my answer to your question.
PKA-Logos Q14: No. And I will tell you why: How do all who are “in Adam” get to be “in Adam”? They are born.
How are all who are “In Christ” get to be “In Christ”? They are born again. Is everyone born? Yes. Everyone who lives has been born at some point. Does everyone get born again? No. The Bible tells us HOW a person is born again. Through faith in Jesus Christ!
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
PastorKevin Question #20: Can one who is NOT born again go to Heaven? Is one who is not born again “In Christ”?
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Believe: Live forever. He who does not believe: already condemned by default! That is what Jesus says!
PKA-Logos Q15:
The error is in the translation you quoted. It is better translated (with the important first 2 verses included):
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
It is good and acceptable to pray for all men. God DESIRES all men to be saved. This does not mean that all WILL be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and it doesn’t say that.
As far as your second question, God had a timetable He was working on, (see Gal. 4:4) and Christ came at the time that He was due. In fact in the next verse, Paul says: “For which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.”
Paul was appointed by God to preach. It was his and the apostles jobs to TESTIFY to what Christ had done!
So if you look at verses 5-7 TOGETHER, it makes much more sense and takes away the mystical and unscriptural meaning attached to “testified in due time” that Universalism teaches.
PKA-LogosQ16
Jesus never lies! I will allow Jesus to explain Himself. The rest of the text:
John 12:42-50
42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”
PKA-LogosQ17:
Huh? This is the Samaritans in the village the Samaritan woman lived in. She had gone in telling them about what Christ had done for her.
John 4:39-42
39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.
42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”
Jesus IS the Savior of the whole world. But this doesn’t mean that everyone gets saved. It means anyone in the world who will come to Him CAN be saved. Whoever believes in Him WILL be saved. That doesn’t mean everyone WILL believe in Him.
The context of the text is that Christ is reaching out to the Samaritans. (Who to the Jews were dirty and filthy and not worthy of even speaking to). The men are reacting to the fact that salvation is now not only open to the Jews but to the whole world! All races of people can be saved! Red, Yellow, Black, or White! But this doesn't mean they WILL be saved just as in my illustration the guests won't all eat the muffins even though they were cooked for all of them!
PKA-LogosQ18
No. He gave His life. What more could He give? He gave everything He could give. If they refuse to believe, He has not sinned and has not fallen short of God’s expectations. In fact verse 15 clearly says that it is only those who confess that Jesus is the Son of God had God dwelling in him. John showed in verse #2 that the confession must also include confessing that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This was to combat the false teaching of Gnosticism which was teaching that Christ did not actually have a physical body. John was instructing them to test the spirits to be sure they are of God.
PKA-LogosQ19:
One day everyone will openly admit that Jesus Christ is Lord. Admitting He is Lord does not equate to saving faith. Even the demons admit He is Lord, but they are eternally damned, as is every man that refuses to repent. I do not deny that all will confess and bow. But it is not by choice! It is by the power of God. And they are not saved by bowing and confessing. Simply bowing and confessing doesn’t save a person. Bowing and confessing accompanied by repentance and saving faith would do the trick! But bowing and confessing are outward acts, not inward ones!
I close with another illustration:
The old king: (By Kevin Richeson)
Suppose I was in a little country somewhere in the third world doing some archaeological research. As I am digging, I find myself suddenly surrounded by 50 men with spears. They order me to follow them. They take me to their king. I am ushered into his throne room where another 50 or so men stand guard. They order me to bow and confess that he is the mightiest king in all the world. He may very well be, and I may very well say what they want, but that doesn’t mean that I believe what I am saying. And it doesn’t mean that if I had the power or the opportunity that I wouldn’t take over the situation and escape or attack the king.
So it is with the great day of Judgment when all of the wicked who have forever MOCKED and DESPISED God (including Satan and his demons, Hitler, etc…). They will ALL one day be forced to bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. But they won’t be doing it willingly. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that they exercise saving faith or repent of their sins!
My questions for you again:
PastorKevin Question #15: Is Jesus a liar? Will all be saved as Universalism tries to assert? Or is Jesus correct when He says many will seek to enter and will not be able?
PastorKevin Question #16: Is the gate narrow? Jesus also said the way to life is very narrow! IS the way to life narrow and only a few find it as Jesus says in John?
PastorKevin Question #17: Is this passage true? Will many try to get into Heaven under false pretenses and not be let in because they do not know Christ?
PastorKevin Question #18: Is God an everlasting God? Is He an everlasting King? Is He the everlasting Father?
PastorKevin Question #19: Please cite the Scripture verse that shows that the blood of Christ was shed for the sins of angels. Please show even ONE SINGLE VERSE that clearly shows fallen angels repenting of their sins or having their sins forgiven, and by what means they obtain forgiveness, or else concede that no such verse exists for goodness sakes.
PastorKevin Question #20: Can one who is NOT born again go to Heaven? Is one who is not born again “In Christ”?
God bless you!
Pastor Kevin
