:first: POTD!!!Clete said:What is this a joke? :rotfl:elohiym said:I can harmonize all of their writings, and see no conflict between them. I do see how you and others twist Paul words to your own destruction.
Which words have I twisted exactly?
There is no need to twist anything. Paul said exactly what he meant. The only reason one might get confused is if you still had it in your head that following the law had anything to do with your relationship with God.
Some of the stuff that Paul teaches is rather difficult to get on the first pass but there is no twisting of it necessary. Paul said EXACTLY what he meant. If you have to twist it (or wrest it as Peter put it) then you don't understand what he taught and are likely doing yourself much more harm than good.2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
I really would like for you to point out where I've done any such twisting of Paul's teachings. As far as I can recall, all I've ever done is simply quote the passage and then explain how it means exactly what it sounds like it is saying.
See what I mean? If you don't understand you should keep you mouth closed until such time as you are certain that you do understand. I have said no such thing.You claim Jesus taught people to repent and keep the Mosaic law, and at the same time you claim the Mosaic law was a curse. So you claim that Jesus taught people to keep a law, a curse, that no person could keep for righteousness.
Jesus did teach the law, of that there can be no doubt. (See Matthew 23:23 along with about a hundred other verse.)
Paul taught, that if you put yourself under the law you are cursed - this also cannot be denied (Galatians 3).
You assume that I therefore teach that Jesus' teaching brought a curse to those He taught it too. Nothing could be further from the truth.
There are however a very limited number of possibilities here I can only think of 5.
1. Jesus didn't mean what He said (i.e. it was figurative in some sense) and Paul did.
2. Paul didn't mean what he said and Jesus did.
3. Neither Jesus nor Paul meant what they said.
4. Both meant exactly what they said and there is therefore a contradiction in the Bible.
5. Both meant exactly what they said but were saying it to two different audiences under two difference dispensations.
I, of course, choose option 5. 3 and 4 are obviously not an option for anyone who claims to be a Christian and so as I said, you along with Sozo and godrulz have only options 1 and 2 left from which to choose. It seems from past experience with you that you tend to choose option 2.
That because Jesus taught to follow the law and Paul forbid people from following the law.You deny that Jesus taught the gospel of grace, and fail to understand that he and Paul taught the exact same thing.
Again, you should keep you mouth shut until you understand things well enough to object to something that is real. No one ever suggested that what Paul taught was a completely different idea of what right and wrong is.Jesus taught to love you neighbor, which fulfills the law; and Paul taught love your neighbor, which fulfills the law (Romans 13:8,9).
Further, loving your neighbor doesn't get you to observing the Sabbath days, tithing, circumcision, or any of the rest of the symbolic aspects of the Mosaic Law which Jesus both observed and taught others to observe and which Paul absolutely forbid. Paul, in fact not only forbid the symbolic laws but all of them - ALL OF THEM!!! If you love your neighbor because there is a rule that says you're supposed to, Christ will profit you nothing.
I am not under the law and will not forsake my liberty for which Jesus paid the ultimate price! I have no need to fulfill a law which I am not under. I cannot be prosecuted or convicted of breaking a law that I am not under! And it does me no good to pretend to be under it or to try to follow it. What profit is there in an American attempting to follow the laws of Cuba while still in America? If an American were to do such a thing, would that not make him a little wacky? What would be the point of such an exercise? He would be placing himself in bondage unnecessarily and the liberty which he enjoys as an American would be made of no effect. Any attempt I make to place myself under the law has the same effect only worse because its not just my liberty which is made of no effect but Christ Himself is rendered ineffective in my daily walk. I do not do rightly because the rules say I should but because I accept by faith that I (that is my flesh) has been crucified with Christ and that it is no longer I who lives but Christ lives through me. I can do nothing of myself, including loving my neighbor. It is not I but Christ and Him only. It is this faith that produces good works in my daily walk. As Paul taught “Faith works by love.”Why is it so difficult for you to understand that if you love your neighbor, you fulfill the law?
Placing yourself under the law is a sin in and of itself.Why is it so difficult to understand that if you fulfill the law, you do not break the law, and that means you do not sin?
Resting in Him,
Clete
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