:first:Rimi said:Christine wrote:
.I never said that once The Physician revived His elect we would have free-will
Confirmed: You're saying man doesn't have free will.
Exactly. Man does not have free-will.
Confirmed again: You're saying man doesn't have free will. Then answer why God said to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7:
"Why are you angry?
Apparently, Cain had a choice to not be angry or God wouldn't feel the need to ask.
Why is your face downcast?
Apparently, Cain had a choice to not be downcast.
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?
??? Oh, he had a choice?
But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
God is giving Cain sound advice on how to behave, which would be silly if Cain had no choice. God has a sense of humor, but He is not silly.
Are you, Rimi, implying that our soverign God did not know in eternity past what choices, you, and everyone else, would make?
If God knows every choice, He would know every thought, yes? Then answer why God said to HIMSELF in Gen 6:3 and 11:6):
"My Spirit will not contend wth man forever, for he is mortal, his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
??? They have no free will, so why are they contending with God? Why is he saying this?
"If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."
Thought they didn't have free will. Wonder why God is surprised here.
John 3:18 does not say that man has free-will. You are implying that just because man can believe, he must choose to believe. This is false, as the Bible seems pretty clear on the topic of election. (see verses below)
Apparently it is not clear as we are having this dialogue. See verses above and to come.
Hardly elect?! That's not what the Bible says throughout the Bible in verses such as the following:
Col 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"
Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness"
1 Thess 1:4 "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"
Rom 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)"
So, you say that Paul was always an elect. Was Paul also a servant and apostle? If so, then he was only doing what God wanted when he stood by approving Stephen's murder. Is that what you contend? Just because someone, say, the President of USA was elected doesn't mean he was elected. A choice had to be made -- not by the voters! He had to decide first if he would run.
Also, Rimi, doesn't it logically follow if some of us mortals are God's "elect," that some of us must not be chosen, and thus, not of the elect?
Why did God ask HIMSELF in Gen 18:17:
"Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?"
God questions Himself whether He should do something. But you say He knows everything every person is going to do?
Why did God say to Abraham in Gen 22:12:
[B]"Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son." [/B] If, as you say, God knows everything we are going to do, then why did He say this? What was the point of testing Abraham? Some people try to say it was to teach Abraham, but they still cannot explain why God said what He said here. This test was to assure God, not Abraham.
Yes, indeed, some belief is involved, but the Bible seems very clear in that God chooses who will have belief and who won't.
There's no belief required at all if there's no free will. And for will to be truly free, it cannot be known. God can only know the knowable. God can made some impressively correct guesses, because He's figured out how rotten men are, but even He can be surprised! Don't think so?
Why did God say in Jeremiah 7:31:
"They have build the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire -- something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."
Get that? We're so rotten and come up with the most foul things to do to each other that this Holy Being couldn't fathom it, couldn't possibly have thought of it!
Why did the Holy Spirit have Matthew record thusly in Mat 8:8:
When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, 'I tellyou the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.'"
Doesn't make sense if He knew everything already.
Please note, I mainly used the first book of the Bible. There are more books, and more examples. Peace.
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