Knight's annual top TOL post awards for 2004

[Nathon Detroit]

Here are my picks for the top posts of 2004....

The 20th best TOL post from 2004
1Way summarizes the Open View
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11919


The 19th best TOL post from 2004
Clete does some truthsmackin'
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12898


The 18th best TOL post from 2004
Crow teaches us about acronyms....
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14555


The 17th best TOL post from 2004
Sozo licks Calvinism
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14885


The 16th best TOL post from 2004
Yorzhik gets squigy wit it!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14975


The 15th best TOL post from 2004
Billybob talks about stingy charity
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17783


The 14th best TOL post from 2004
The Sibbie takes on Beanieboy
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13580


The 13th best TOL post from 2004
Switchblade does some pruning in the Calvinist garden
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12024


The 12th best TOL post from 2004
1Way reviews some TOL history
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11967


The 11th best TOL post from 2004
Shadowx talks about immutability
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12045

And now the TOP 10 posts from 2004....


The 10th best TOL post from 2004
philosophizer cracks me up!!!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15418


The 9th best TOL post from 2004
Yorzhik cleans Hilstons clock...
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14762


The 8th best TOL post from 2004
BillyBob talks about TOL perks...
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16975


The 7th best TOL post from 2004
Lucky cracks me up!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17260


The 6th best TOL post from 2004
Shimei smacks down hard on Freak
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14167


And now the TOP 5 posts from 2004....


The 5th best TOL post from 2004
Jauchzer judges that judging is good!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14144


The 4th best TOL post from 2004
Clete exposes Hiltons flawed logic...
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17574


:third: The 3rd best TOL post from 2004
Clete tries to talk sense into the senseless...
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14685


:second: The 2nd best TOL post from 2004
Hilston gets spanked again... this time from the TOL image gallery by Shadowx
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17155


:first: And the #1 post on TOL for 2004 is....
1Way debunks the Closed view and proves the open view all in one post.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14725


And here is 1Way's post in its entirety....

Originally posted by 1Way

This is the tenor of this entire debate. Demonstrated by correlating (hypothetical) example.



General overview


OV
The open view (more so) reasons by quoting God's word and rests it’s case on that. We literally accept it without violating it's contextual development.

Concerning His previous spoken honest intended course of action (What God said He “was going to DO”).

God’s word says that He repented from it (changed His mind) and did not do what He said He would DO.

CV
The closed view (more so) reasons extra biblically and rests their case primarily on sources other than what is specifically provided by scripture. They reject (void of meaning) entire portions of scripture that deny their view and they also violate the context by doing so. And they effectively make God out to be a liar in order to maintain their views as being more authoritative. All while claiming “spiritual” correctness.

Concerning His previous spoken honest intended course of action (What God said He “was going to DO”).

Who cares about what God said about Him changing His intended course of action by not doing what He said He would do, the closed view maintains that God can not change even if God says He does, so we are right and that is that.



Specific arguments


OV

1 God’s word is true and authoritative
It is a clear case of divine repentance against complying
with what God said and/or thought He was going to do

So what do the words mean then if they don’t literally mean what they literally say?

• Jonah 3:10 subsection part b
  ... and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

CV
It does not mean (bla bla bla, wha wha wha, bla wha bla) and it does not mean (bla bla bla, wha wha wha, bla wha bla), man changed and therefore God simply did not need to punish them, so God did not change and that is that.

OV
That does not tell me what those specific words mean, it tells me that you are ignoring and perhaps violating them instead. If you do not have a suitable (specific) biblically provided replacement meaning for the text in question, then you have no standing to effectively deny it’s literal meaning.

CV
Oh, it means what it says alright, but there’s simply no Change in God.

OV
You mean where God says that

• He did not do what He said He would do, and He did not do it,

you mean THAT means that

• He DID DO what He said He would DO? And He did do it?

CV
God always gets His will done, it all happened with out any change in God. Your wrong and we’re right, stop trying to confuse us with details.
:doh:


OV

2 The context denies the prophesy message was conditional
It was honestly going to be a national disaster and
it was honestly going to be brought upon them

It could not have been a conditional warning of possible destruction as in “shape up or else”. God described the prophesy with the following contextual build up. This is the truth, and you are in error for violating scripture. Please reconsider the following.

The prophesied “overthrow” was said to be:

1. understood as lethal (3:9)
2. A national disaster (3:10)
3. that God would “bring upon them” (3:10)
4. correlated with God’s anger verses His lovingkingness (4:2)
5. correlated with God doing harm (4:2)

And remember, God recorded this account after the fact of it all happening. He would not have allowed the context to be falsifying what actually did happen.

If a nation repents from doing great wickedness, and puts their faith in God for their very lives, that is a good and righteous thing, it is not harmful, it is not a demonstration of God’s disapproving anger, it is not a national disaster that was brought upon them. So every single contextual consideration about God’s prophesy contradicts the idea that it was conditional, including the conclusive example, that God said concerning that prophesy of intended course of action, that He did not do it, God did "not" comply with what He said He would do.

CV
No, since God sent Jonah ahead of time, the condition is only obvious, get real and read your bible, we’re right and your wrong. They repented which is what God ordained the entire time, they were overthrown, so God accomplished His intentions.

OV
You argue that God did overthrow Nineveh by their repentance. But God said that concerning what He said He would do, He did not do it, so if the prophecy was primarily or literally to get them to repent, and they did repent, they why did God lie when He said that He did not accomplish what He said He would do?

CV
God does not lie, and He does not change, your wrong, we’re right. Actually, it was a conditional prophesy, that is why we know that God never changed His mind, since it was conditional, there was no possible way for God to reverse from complying with His prophesy. It was a shape up or else conditional prophecy, why else would God send His prophet 40 days in advance if He only had in mind destroying them.

OV
The conditionality rests within God, His word was not conditional, it was honest and truthful just as is described in scripture. For God’s nature to hold conditionality, necessarily means He can change depending upon what happens with newly brought about circumstances.

CV
No, the condition was not in God, it was in His word. God did do what He said He would do.



OV

3 The law of non-contradiction and moral integrity
It’s dishonest to contradict the truth
even if you use a lie to cover up a lie
to cover up a lie

Surely you can see the dishonesty in:

1. Absolutely and perfectly knowing that you will not do something
   and then
2. lying by saying you will do it anyway
   and then
3. lying again (after the fact of you not doing it) by saying, that you repented and did not do what you (honestly) said you would do, and you did not do it.

Making double statement that this was an issue of intended action, it was unequivocally an issue of honest course of action.

CV
No, it just was not, we don’t care what you think it means, your wrong, we’re right, God never intended on destroying them.

OV
No, your wrong for violating what God’s word plainly says, along with violating the entire context involved, and for promoting your manmade traditions that contradict scripture, voiding scripture and replacing it’s meaning with nothing (scripturally and contextually) fitting.

CV
We’ve already answered all your questions, just because you don’t like them does not mean their wrong.

OV
You have? Then what does Jonah 3:10 subsection part b specifically mean?

CV
(go back to the beginning and replay the same story without ever answering the question about what those words mean.)
:doh:


Conclusion


What a state of affairs! I love it that this is going on in the thread who’s entire quest is over one single bible conformity challenge, and yet not one single closed theist has even come close to answering it. They are absolutely terrified of the text because it is in direct contradiction against their beliefs and thus it perfectly denies their viewpoint, so they just ignore and violate it because there is no middle ground on this issue. As long as they believe they are right (i.e. their false manmade presupposition of classic divine immutability), then they can not agree with God repenting as is literally and repeatedly described in scripture. The two ideas are contradictory and can not be reconciled.


Conform your faith to the bible!!! :up:

Don’t violate against the bible
because of manmade tradition! :down:

Congratulations to all of this years award winners!!!! :first:

 

[Imrahil]

:BRAVO:

 

[Crow]

:BRAVO:

Where the heck is 1Way, anyway?

 

[BillyBob]

:banana:

 

[1Way]

I am deeply honored.

Thanks Knight for bringing us the world's best truth smacking website around!

 

[BillyBob]

Hilston made the Top 5 Twice! [sorta] :chuckle:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by 1Way

I am deeply honored.

Thanks Knight for bringing us the world's best truth smacking website around!

Now there is a great Christmas present!!!! A visit from 1Way!!

Yea!!! Our winner!!! And great friend. :up:

 

[Lucky]

I made the TOP 10. Woohoo!!! :banana:

 

[ebenz47037]

I guess I'm going to have to get to digging through the site to see if I can come up with twenty for the year. :chuckle:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

I guess I'm going to have to get to digging through the site to see if I can come up with twenty for the year. :chuckle:

I always just pick them out of the POTD's that I have made for that year.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Knight

I always just pick them out of the POTD's that I have made for that year.

Have I made 20 POTD's this year?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

Have I made 20 POTD's this year?

You don't have to have your list be the top 20. It could be the top 10, or top 5 or heck... even just the top three! :third: :second: :first:

 

[BillyBob]

I just reviewed my 'BillyBob's 2004 POTD's'.......they mostly feature my own posts.



:chuckle:

 

[ebenz47037]

I only have 18 POTD's from the year 2004. So, I'm not going to give a top 20. I'm just going to give the links to them, in no particular order, except for the one that I liked the best. Let's see if anyone can guess why I like it. :chuckle:

cattyfan

Lucky

Brother Willi

geralduk

Living4Him

Mateo

cattyfan

Shaun

lost-n-found

Light Son

Melody

Aimiel

lighthouse

lighthouse

Mustard Seed

elected4ever

Progenitor

And, my favorite one of the bunch is this one by Melody. See if you guys can guess why.

Originally posted by Melody

It is time to take a serious look at our involvement there.

Every day there are news reports about more deaths. Every night on the TV are photos of death and destruction. Why are we still there?

The land is too large to secure all of it. The bad people causing this damage can roam anywhere, and we can't possibly police the whole place. Why are we still there?

We occupied this land, which we had to take by force, but it causes us nothing but trouble. Why are we still there?

Their government is unstable, and in the process of changing.
Why are we still there?

Refugees are fleeing by the thousands, driven from their homes. Why are we still there?

It will cost billions to rebuild, which we can't afford. Why are we still there?

There are more than 1000 religious sects.

We can't even secure the borders. Why are we still there?

And to repeat. Every day we hear of more Americans killed in this dangerous land.

It is clear! We must abandon California!!!!!

 

[Lighthouse]

Well, at least I made somebody's.

 

[ShadowMaid]

Ahh! I should be in bed, but I just had to say congrats to the winners, and say that I'm so glad my Dad made the list!

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Well, at least I made somebody's.

Not only did you make my list, but you made it with two posts. :chuckle:

 

[Delmar]

Originally posted by 1Way

I am deeply honored.

Thanks Knight for bringing us the world's best truth smacking website around!

Good to see you checking in:thumb:

 

[Clete]

What an outstanding choice for the number one spot! 1Way is truly one of the best contributors on this site. Congratulations 1Way. I hope you'll keep such substantive posts coming for at least another year!


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[cattyfan]

Thanks, ebenz! I had forgotten about those two posts