Justification

[Jacob]

Shalom.

I have been working on something for a thread for a couple of weeks now, getting verses ready that have the words just, justify, justifies, justified, justifier, justification, justice. I will leave them out of the opening post though. I just want people to know that I believe in justification by faith, and why.

What do you say?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Catholic Crusader]

1987 to 1995: LINK

Give it a whirl.


Justification and Salvation
The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” (Rom 3:22). Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man (CCC 1987–1989).

More

 

[john w]

1987 to 1995: LINK

Give it a whirl.


Justification and Salvation
The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” (Rom 3:22). Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man (CCC 1987–1989).

More

Do you ever Acts 17:11 KJV, "checking it out" in the book, surveying "It is written," instead of just spitting, like a drugged up drone, shill, out that which the Roman Catholic Organization indoctrinates you, or "The Catechism," or "Catholic Answers," or "Well, my priest, nun, cardinal says this, so I will be just fine!," or..........?

Save it-it is a rhetorical question.

 

[Jacob]

1987 to 1995: LINK

Give it a whirl.


Justification and Salvation
The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” (Rom 3:22). Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man (CCC 1987–1989).

More

It looks like Catholics don't know the truth.

 

[john w]

Believers in the gospel of Christ of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV have submitted themselves "unto the righteousness of God"(Romans 10:3 KJV).

We now have the righteousness of God, Romans 3:21-25 KJV, Romans 4:5 KJV, secured through the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ(1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The LORD God has justified us forever because He sees us "in Christ": Acts 13 KJV, Acts 43 KJV; Romans 3:24-28 KJV, Romans 4:25 KJV, Romans 5:1 KJV, Romans 5:9 KJV, Romans 8:30 KJV; 1 Cor. 6:11 KJV; Galatians 2:16 KJV, Galatians 3:24 KJV; Titus 3:7 KJV. This is an immutable reckoning in the mind of God. Justification is that judicial act of God by which, on account of the Lord Jesus Christ, to whom I am united("in Christ") by faith, He declares me to be no longer exposed to the penalty of the righteous requirements of the law, but restored to divine favor. I have been declared righteous. Justification is an act, not a process. Upon believing 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, the gospel "good news," of Christ, pertaining to salvation(to be rescued, delivered from, a danger),I was given a free gift(Romans 5:18 KJV)-a righteous standing before a Holy God. This gift, by definition, has nothing to do with what I have done or who I am. No amount of self-effort or good works could ever bring one to justification. I did not justify myself-it is God who justifies. This gift is unchanging. Once the LORD God declared me righteous on the merit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the sin/sins question regarding me has been settled once for all.

Justification is more than forgiveness, since implicit in forgiveness is guilt and cancellation/removal of sin(negative), while justification is "not guilty" and the bestowing of the merit and standing of the Lord Jesus Christ(positive). Justification is not equivalent to being pardoned. A pardoned criminal is still a criminal. Justification removes the guilt. God thus not only forgets my sin, but forgets that I am a sinner-and all because He sees me "in Christ". He sees me as a saint-NOW(despite Roman Catholic ramblings, protests, to the contrary).

Because I am "in Christ Jesus", I have been "...made the righteousness of God in him..."(1 Corinthians 1:30 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). I am "... found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."Philippians 3:9 KJV:

All my sins(plural-1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV) were forgiven at Calvary and the resurrection 3 days later:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense)of sins" Col. 1:14 KJV
"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you all trespasses" Col. 2:13 KJV

Read it, believe it-all.

"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave(emphasis mine-past tense)you, so also do ye." Col. 3:13 KJV

"In whom we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense) of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Eph. 1:7 KJV

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you" Eph. 4:32. KJV

 

[Jacob]

Just the word justification we have the following verses.

Justification

Romans 4:25 NASB - [He] who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 5:16 NASB - The gift is not like [that which came] through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment [arose] from one [transgression] resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift [arose] from many transgressions resulting in justification.

Romans 5:18 NASB - So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

 

[Jacob]

Believers in the gospel of Christ of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV have submitted themselves "unto the righteousness of God"(Romans 10:3 KJV).

Amen.

We now have the righteousness of God, Romans 3:21-25 KJV, Romans 4:5 KJV, secured through the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ(1 Cor. 15:1-4)

Amen.

The LORD God has justified us forever because He sees us "in Christ": Acts 13 KJV, Acts 43 KJV; Romans 3:24-28 KJV, Romans 4:25 KJV, Romans 5:1 KJV, Romans 5:9 KJV, Romans 8:30 KJV; 1 Cor. 6:11 KJV; Galatians 2:16 KJV, Galatians 3:24 KJV; Titus 3:7 KJV. This is an immutable reckoning in the mind of God. Justification is that judicial act of God by which, on account of the Lord Jesus Christ, to whom I am united("in Christ") by faith, He declares me to be no longer exposed to the penalty of the righteous requirements of the law, but restored to divine favor. I have been declared righteous. Justification is an act, not a process. Upon believing 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, the gospel "good news," of Christ, pertaining to salvation(to be rescued, delivered from, a danger),I was given a free gift(Romans 5:18 KJV)-a righteous standing before a Holy God. This gift, by definition, has nothing to do with what I have done or who I am. No amount of self-effort or good works could ever bring one to justification. I did not justify myself-it is God who justifies. This gift is unchanging. Once the LORD God declared me righteous on the merit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the sin/sins question regarding me has been settled once for all.

Amen.

Justification is more than forgiveness, since implicit in forgiveness is guilt and cancellation/removal of sin(negative), while justification is "not guilty" and the bestowing of the merit and standing of the Lord Jesus Christ(positive). Justification is not equivalent to being pardoned. A pardoned criminal is still a criminal. Justification removes the guilt. God thus not only forgets my sin, but forgets that I am a sinner-and all because He sees me "in Christ". He sees me as a saint-NOW(despite Roman Catholic ramblings, protests, to the contrary).

Interesting. I am not sure about this. It seems that there is then forgiveness, guilt, and justification. I am not for Catholics at all.

Because I am "in Christ Jesus", I have been "...made the righteousness of God in him..."(1 Corinthians 1:30 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). I am "... found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."Philippians 3:9 KJV:

Amen.

All my sins(plural-1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV) were forgiven at Calvary and the resurrection 3 days later:

Are you saying that there is not only forgiveness at Calvary but also in the resurrection?

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense)of sins" Col. 1:14 KJV
"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you all trespasses" Col. 2:13 KJV

Great Scripture.

Read it, believe it-all.

All that comes from God is to be believed.

"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave(emphasis mine-past tense)you, so also do ye." Col. 3:13 KJV

Amen.

"In whom we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense) of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Eph. 1:7 KJV

Amen.

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you" Eph. 4:32. KJV

Amen.

 

[john w]

Are you saying that there is not only forgiveness at Calvary but also in the resurrection?

You missed it-sins(plural), not sin(singular).


In Romans 5:12 KJV, Paul "switches gears," and is no longer addressing sins(plural); Nea,he is discussing the "cause," the "source" of sins, the "root," of sins, that being indwelling sin. Romans 5:12 KJV is speaking of identification-our "where we are in the LORD God's eyes," our "positional history." We were all identified positionally with the source of humanity-"in Adam"(in contrast to "in Christ"-memorize). When Adam sinned and thereby positionally died to God, I died with him, as part of "The Adams' Family." When he became flesh, so did I, all of mankind, in him. When Adam was judged, I/all of us were also judged/condemned, in Adam.

However, in contrast to its "offspring," product, sins(plural), sin cannot be forgiven, as that is not justice, and it would be sin still. A forgiven thief, murderer, .... is still a thief, murderer,... Hence, sin has to be condemned/judged in death:

"...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for SIN(emphasis mine-not sins), condemned SIN(emphasis mine-singular) in the flesh, as it is written, in Romans 8:3 KJV

"Connect the dots"-my/our sins, plural, are forgiven by the principle of substitution("for"-"vicarious"):


"...Christ died for our sins..."(1 Cor 15:3 KJV)/"...gave himself for our sins...." Gal. 1:4 KJV

However, our sin(singular)was condemned/judged by the principle of identification-survey 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV="...to be sin(singular)for us..."=propitiation


Again, sins(plural) can be forgiven, but sin(singular), cannot be forgiven-it must be judged/condemned, i.e., the sin nature(despite protests to the contrary), who I/we am/are was "in Adam"(1 Cor. 15:22 KJV), was not forgiven at the altar of Calvary. My/our then future sins were forgiven("Christ died for our sins"-plural-emphasis mine-1 Cor. 15:3 KJV), but I/we, as the "old man" in Adam(Romans 6:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:22 KJV, Colossians 3:9 KJV), the source of those sins, was not forgiven. Sin must be judged/condemned, and it was at Calvary.. "For he(God the Father-my note) hath made him(the Lord Jesus Christ-my note) to be sin for us...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV)/"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."(Romans 8:3 KJV)

Thus, while Savior was on the cross, God the Father laid all of my/our "future" sins upon His Christ, and His death, by blood, for those sins freed/released me/us from the penalty of the incurred sin debt.While the Lord Jesus Christ was on that same cross, God the Father identified(the meaning of the word "baptize") me/us, in my/our "in Adam" life of sin, with His Christ, who was made to be that sin offering(2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). In Him, I/we died to sin. In my/our death unto sin, in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, I/we was/were freed, delivered, rescued, from all that I/we was/were in the "first man Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV), and was/were re-created in the "last Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV)-Romans 6:5 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV, Ephesians 2:10 KJV.

Again, and thus, all my/our sins were forgiven via the principle of substitution, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...."(1 Cor. 15:3 KJV). But my/our sin was condemned/judged via the principle of identification, i.e., "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin...."(2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ did not die for sin, but for sins. Being made sin, our sin, He was judged, condemned, and crucified in our place.

QED.

 

[musterion]

You missed it-sins(plural), not sin(singular).


In Romans 5:12 KJV, Paul "switches gears," and is no longer addressing sins(plural); Nea,he is discussing the "cause," the "source" of sins, the "root," of sins, that being indwelling sin. Romans 5:12 KJV is speaking of identification-our "where we are in the LORD God's eyes," our "positional history." We were all identified positionally with the source of humanity-"in Adam"(in contrast to "in Christ"-memorize). When Adam sinned and thereby positionally died to God, I died with him, as part of "The Adams' Family." When he became flesh, so did I, all of mankind, in him. When Adam was judged, I/all of us were also judged/condemned, in Adam.

However, in contrast to its "offspring," product, sins(plural), sin cannot be forgiven, as that is not justice, and it would be sin still. A forgiven thief, murderer, .... is still a thief, murderer,... Hence, sin has to be condemned/judged in death:

"...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for SIN(emphasis mine-not sins), condemned SIN(emphasis mine-singular) in the flesh, as it is written, in Romans 8:3 KJV

"Connect the dots"-my/our sins, plural, are forgiven by the principle of substitution("for"-"vicarious"):


"...Christ died for our sins..."(1 Cor 15:3 KJV)/"...gave himself for our sins...." Gal. 1:4 KJV

However, our sin(singular)was condemned/judged by the principle of identification-survey 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV="...to be sin(singular)for us..."=propitiation


Again, sins(plural) can be forgiven, but sin(singular), cannot be forgiven-it must be judged/condemned, i.e., the sin nature(despite protests to the contrary), who I/we am/are was "in Adam"(1 Cor. 15:22 KJV), was not forgiven at the altar of Calvary. My/our then future sins were forgiven("Christ died for our sins"-plural-emphasis mine-1 Cor. 15:3 KJV), but I/we, as the "old man" in Adam(Romans 6:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:22 KJV, Colossians 3:9 KJV), the source of those sins, was not forgiven. Sin must be judged/condemned, and it was at Calvary.. "For he(God the Father-my note) hath made him(the Lord Jesus Christ-my note) to be sin for us...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV)/"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."(Romans 8:3 KJV)

Thus, while Savior was on the cross, God the Father laid all of my/our "future" sins upon His Christ, and His death, by blood, for those sins freed/released me/us me from the penalty of the incurred sin debt.While the Lord Jesus Christ was on that same cross, God the Father identified(the meaning of the word "baptize") me/us, in my our "in Adam" life of sin, with His Christ, who was made to be that sin(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV). In Him, I/we died to sin. In my/our death unto sin, in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, I/we was/were freed, delivered, rescued, from all that I was in the "first man Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV), and was re-created in the "last Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV)-Romans 6:5 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV, Ephesians 2:10 KJV.

Again, and thus, all my/our sins were forgiven via the principle of substitution, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...."(1 Cor. 15:3 KJV). But my/our sin was condemned/judged via the principle of identification, i.e., "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin...."(2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ did not die for sin, but for sins. Being made sin, our sin, He was judged, condemned, and crucified in our place.

QED.

Brother John, what would you say to someone who tells you he believes all of that BUT wants to keep trying to keep parts of the Law, just to be obedient and (I guess) make himself pleasing to God?

 

[Jacob]

You missed it-sins(plural), not sin(singular).


In Romans 5:12 KJV, Paul "switches gears," and is no longer addressing sins(plural); Nea,he is discussing the "cause," the "source" of sins, the "root," of sins, that being indwelling sin. Romans 5:12 KJV is speaking of identification-our "where we are in the LORD God's eyes," our "positional history." We were all identified positionally with the source of humanity-"in Adam"(in contrast to "in Christ"-memorize). When Adam sinned and thereby positionally died to God, I died with him, as part of "The Adams' Family." When he became flesh, so did I, all of mankind, in him. When Adam was judged, I/all of us were also judged/condemned, in Adam.

However, in contrast to its "offspring," product, sins(plural), sin cannot be forgiven, as that is not justice, and it would be sin still. A forgiven thief, murderer, .... is still a thief, murderer,... Hence, sin has to be condemned/judged in death:

"...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for SIN(emphasis mine-not sins), condemned SIN(emphasis mine-singular) in the flesh, as it is written, in Romans 8:3 KJV

"Connect the dots"-my/our sins, plural, are forgiven by the principle of substitution("for"-"vicarious"):


"...Christ died for our sins..."(1 Cor 15:3 KJV)/"...gave himself for our sins...." Gal. 1:4 KJV

However, our sin(singular)was condemned/judged by the principle of identification-survey 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV="...to be sin(singular)for us..."=propitiation


Again, sins(plural) can be forgiven, but sin(singular), cannot be forgiven-it must be judged/condemned, i.e., the sin nature(despite protests to the contrary), who I/we am/are was "in Adam"(1 Cor. 15:22 KJV), was not forgiven at the altar of Calvary. My/our then future sins were forgiven("Christ died for our sins"-plural-emphasis mine-1 Cor. 15:3 KJV), but I/we, as the "old man" in Adam(Romans 6:6 KJV, Ephesians 4:22 KJV, Colossians 3:9 KJV), the source of those sins, was not forgiven. Sin must be judged/condemned, and it was at Calvary.. "For he(God the Father-my note) hath made him(the Lord Jesus Christ-my note) to be sin for us...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV)/"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."(Romans 8:3 KJV)

Thus, while Savior was on the cross, God the Father laid all of my/our "future" sins upon His Christ, and His death, by blood, for those sins freed/released me/us me from the penalty of the incurred sin debt.While the Lord Jesus Christ was on that same cross, God the Father identified(the meaning of the word "baptize") me/us, in my our "in Adam" life of sin, with His Christ, who was made to be that sin(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV). In Him, I/we died to sin. In my/our death unto sin, in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, I/we was/were freed, delivered, rescued, from all that I was in the "first man Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV), and was re-created in the "last Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45 KJV)-Romans 6:5 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV, Ephesians 2:10 KJV.

Again, and thus, all my/our sins were forgiven via the principle of substitution, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...."(1 Cor. 15:3 KJV). But my/our sin was condemned/judged via the principle of identification, i.e., "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin...."(2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ did not die for sin, but for sins. Being made sin, our sin, He was judged, condemned, and crucified in our place.

QED.

A lot of good stuff. Thank you john w!

 

[Jacob]

Brother John, what would you say to someone who tells you he believes all of that BUT wants to keep trying to keep parts of the Law, just to be obedient and (I guess) make himself pleasing to God?

You can't make yourself pleasing to God by observing the Law. However, somehow it is possible to please God by more than belief or believing.

 

[john w]

Brother John, what would you say to someone who tells you he believes all of that BUT wants to keep trying to keep parts of the Law, just to be obedient and (I guess) make himself pleasing to God?

I would tell them,brother musty, that that is sanctification, the result of justification, and cross out the "I," in attempting to be obedient, as the cross is "I" crossed out, and allow grace to teach you how to be obedient....

Titus 2 KJV
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;




...not to be saved, but out of gratitude,love as the motivation to please Him, not obligation, as an adopted son, since you are saved, not to be saved, and to quit trying to resuscitate a dead man, with formaldehyde, letting the spirit of Christ that began the good work, finish it....

Philppians 1 KJV
6 being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Phrases such as "Give your heart to Jesus," may sound very romantic, but we are not saved by "falling in love with Jesus"-we are saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary and His resurrection 3 days later. Giving one's heart, life(commitment) is an activity of service to the Lord, and and, as such, service and dedication is something the LORD appeals to believers to do(Romans 12:1-2 KJV, for eg.). But this is service from those who have become his own. The biblical order is sonship, then service. Service, then sonship is a work-based performance system, as typified by the Roman Catholic Organization, and "perverts the gospel of Christ"(Gal. 1:7 KJV). Statements such as " ...I believe salvation is a journey; it is not a moment in time" reflect this mindset and false doctrine. Sanctification is a journey, but justification is not. Justification is a "moment in time" declaration of righteousness based on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Practically every false doctrine is a result of "getting things out of order", as I mentioned previously. The divine order is justification, then change/sanctification, not change/sanctification and then salvation. Notice in Romans 5:6 KJV, God "JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY(emphasis mine)"-no "fixing yourself up first", no "stop sinning first".......... Notice in Romans 5:8 KJV, "while we were yet SINNERS(emphasis mine), Christ died for us". Again, those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus, commit your life to Jesus, be obedient to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ GIVING HIS LIFE FOR US, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!) make this deadly error-confusing sanctification with justification.

Many error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue". You could "stop sinning" all the rest of your life(which is a self righteous PRIDE that no one can do), and that would not allow you in the presence of our Holy God. Sin is not just wrong acts, it is "not doing what you are suppose to do", and it is "wrong thinking"-thus,"all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". The LORD God has pronounced all of us GUILTY, with no exceptions(read Romans again)-guilty of not only what we do, but guilty of falling short of his absolute standard, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST="who he wants us to be the biblical requirement is not just forgiveness=a pardon for an offence, but JUSTIFICATION=a legal declaration of righteousness, and includes not just "stop doing what is wrong", but also DOING EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT in thought, word, and deed(had any evil thoughts today? I have). And this is "the righteousness of God in him"(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV), the "righteousness of God"(Romans 1:17), " righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe"(Romans 3:22 KJV), "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"(Philippians 3:9 KJV).

The divine operation works from within to without, the opposite of Satan's "modest operandi"(sic), which works from the outside of man to within. We need to preach the gospel of Christ, and not confuse the "fruits" of salvation, the effects of salvation, which is our "walk"/sanctification, with the CAUSE of salvation. Only the gospel of Christ is the"power of God unto salvation"(Romans 1:16 KJV)- and this is the power of God from the PENALTY of sin (justification), the power of sin(sanctification), and the presence of sin(glorification).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5


Memorize that.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

It looks like Catholics don't know the truth.

LOL. Okay. I guess 2,000 years of the saints, popes, bishops, doctors of the Church, and all the faithful got it all wrong all this time, and for 2,000 years we were waiting for you to steer us straight.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but your blatant simple statement is a bit laughable to me.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

JUSTIFICATION: DOCTRINE OF COUNCIL OF TRENT
By Father William Most
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/JUSTITRT.TXT

What is justification? Loosely, it means getting right with God.
But there is an impassable gap between the Catholic and the
Lutheran position after that point. Luther insisted that even
after justification we are totally corrupt and really, have no
free will (<The Bondage of the Will>). The Catholic teaching is
that justification means the reception of (sanctifying) grace for
the first time. This grace changes us, making us share in the
divine nature( 2 Peter 1. 4) which is far different from being
totally corrupt. It gives us the basic ability to take part in
the face to face vision of God in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). So
the soul becomes even now the temple of the Holy Spirit: 1 Cor
6:19 -could we imagine God joining Himself for eternity to a soul
that is totally corrupt? Rather,"who can stand when He appears?
For He is like the refiner's fire": Mal 3:2).

This is a tremendous thought. When I look at you, I do not take
you into my mind, I take in an image of you. But no image could
let me know what God really is, so there must be no image in the
process (Defined thus by Benedict XII: DS 1000). So it must be
that God joins Himself directly to the human soul or mind,
without even an image in between so that the soul may know HIm
face to face.

2 Peter 1:4 said by this grace we share in the divine nature. So
we are made children of God,"heirs of God, fellow heirs with
Christ - provided that we suffer with Him so that we may be
glorified with Him": Rom 8:17. We notice the condition attached
at the end. We are saved and made holy if and to the extent that
we are members of Christ, and like Him. So we are not saved
alone, we are saved as brothers of Christ, sharing the same
divine nature with Him (2 Pet. 1:4).

Now the child of a Father has a claim to inherit. So we have, by
justification, a claim to inherit from our Father, to inherit a
place in His mansions. But, a merit is simply a claim. So we
could say that having grace is a merit. Yet we gained that first
grace without any merit of our own. We can, however, merit
increases in it (DS 1574), since we then have the dignity of sons
of God. If we keep that grace, we will enter His mansions. But we
could lose it by mortal sin. So Trent defined: If anyone says
that the justification that is received is not kept and even
increased before God by good works... A. S. ." But this
presupposes reception of grace for the firs time without any
merit at all. As to "keeping" justification: All concrete actions
are either good or evil. If we commit evil, mortally, we lose
that grace. If we do not commit mortal sin, then this grace is
kept.

We achieve justification by faith. But Luther, without any
checking, simply assumed that faith means confidence that the
merits of Christ apply to me. Then I would be infallibly saved,
for in a ledger for myself, on the credit page I would write
infinity, the merits of Christ; on the debit page, the number for
my sins. Hence no matter how much I have sinned, am sinning, will
sin - all is outbalanced by the infinite merits of Christ. So I
have infallible salvation.

The trouble is that, as we said, Luther made no effort to see
what St. Paul meant by <faith>. If we read all of Paul, we find
three things:1)If God speaks a truth, we believe it in our mind;
2) If He make a promise, we are confident in it; 3) If He tells
us to do something, we must do it-- "the obedience of faith" :Rom
1:5. - Even a standard Protestant reference work, <Interpreter's
Dictionary of the Bible>, in Supplement, p. 333, describes
Pauline faith just as we have done). But poor Luther did not see
that faith includes obedience to God, and so he wrote: "Be a
sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even
more boldly... . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even
though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."
(Weimar ed. vol. 2. p. 372; Letters I, <Luther's Works>, American
ed. vol. 48, p. 282. Luther in his <Exposition on the Psalms 130.
4>; wrote:"If this article [justification by faith] stands, the
church stands;' if it falls, the church falls." Since he did not
know what St. Paul meant by faith, his church never did stand. --
and further, he had no means of knowing which books are part of
Scripture. He tried to say that if a book preaches justification
by faith strongly, it is inspired. He did not notice that most
books of Scripture do not even mention the subject.

Here are the chief texts of the Council of Trent on these
matters:

First Stage

<Capitulum 8 on justification>. DS 1532: "... we are said to be
justified gratuitously for this reason, because nothing of those
things that come before justification, whether faith, or works,
earns the grace of justification itself... ."

Second Stage

<Canon 32 on Justification>. DS 1582: "If any one says that the
works of a man who has been justified [has received first grace]
are in such a way the gifts of God that they are not also the
good merits of the one who is justified, or that the one who is
justified does not really merit by good works, which are done by
him through the grace of God and Jesus Christ [does not really
merit] eternal life and the attainment of eternal life itself (if
however he dies in grace) and even an increase in glory, let him
be anathema." COMMENT: They are merit in that they are a claim to
a reward. The claim is established since first grace, unearned,
makes us children of God, who as such have a claim to inherit.
And we are brothers of Christ, who did establish a claim albeit
on the secondary level. After we are made children of God, this
dignity gives a ground for merit of additions to grace.

Conclusions

1. <There is justification by faith, without works>. Examine each
of the three words:

a)<Justification>;Means getting right with God. It makes us
adopted sons (Rom 8. 17) and sharers in the divine nature (2 Pt.
1. 4) and temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 19). That is not a
spatial presence, spirits do not take up space. A spirit is
present wherever he causes an effect. What effect? The
transformation of the soul making it radically capable of the
vision of God in the next life: 1 Cor 13.12.

2)<Faith> It is itself a gift (Eph 2.8). It includes three things
according to Paul:belief in mind, confidence, obedience.

3)<Without works>: which works? Not just the ceremonial and
dietary works for that could imply that other works can justify
us. But they cannot do that for no man is just before God by his
own power (Rom 3.24:we are justified gratis). Abraham had works
other than those, but they did not earn justification, if they
did, he would have a boast, but not before God.

Final salvation is an <inheritance>:1 Cor 6.9-10. We could not
earn the inheritance, nor need we do it, but we could earn to
lose it:ibid. We are adopted children. But children do not earn
their inheritance, though they could earn to lose it: Rom 6.23.
We get a claim not of ourselves, but inasmuch as we are
brothers/members of Christ, who did earn, and are like Him in all
things, including work of rebalancing the objective order: Rom
8.17. Yet we do have a claim, inasmuch as first grace, unmerited,
makes us children of God, who as such, have a claim to inherit.

2. What of the OT "justifications"? They did not of themselves
give this grace, but promised temporal reward: Probably did not
know eternal reward until time of Antiochus IV. -- And no OT
sacrifice was provided for sins <be yad ramah>, but only for
<sheggagah>.

3. Why good works? Because faith includes obedience, which calls
for them. Also, out of gratitude to so good a Father who even
gives us by grace an inclination to good works. He, being
Holiness, loves all that is good, and so is pleased with our good
works. But they do not at all earn salvation in primary sense
(Cf. DS 1532 above):if they did, we would have a boast.

 

[Jacob]

LOL. Okay. I guess 2,000 years of the saints, popes, bishops, doctors of the Church, and all the faithful got it all wrong all this time, and for 2,000 years we were waiting for you to steer us straight.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but your blatant simple statement is a bit laughable to me.

You need to seriously consider that you have something wrong here.

 

[Jacob]

JUSTIFICATION: DOCTRINE OF COUNCIL OF TRENT
By Father William Most
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/JUSTITRT.TXT

What is justification? Loosely, it means getting right with God.
But there is an impassable gap between the Catholic and the
Lutheran position after that point. Luther insisted that even
after justification we are totally corrupt and really, have no
free will (<The Bondage of the Will>). The Catholic teaching is
that justification means the reception of (sanctifying) grace for
the first time. This grace changes us, making us share in the
divine nature( 2 Peter 1. 4) which is far different from being
totally corrupt. It gives us the basic ability to take part in
the face to face vision of God in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). So
the soul becomes even now the temple of the Holy Spirit: 1 Cor
6:19 -could we imagine God joining Himself for eternity to a soul
that is totally corrupt? Rather,"who can stand when He appears?
For He is like the refiner's fire": Mal 3:2).

This is a tremendous thought. When I look at you, I do not take
you into my mind, I take in an image of you. But no image could
let me know what God really is, so there must be no image in the
process (Defined thus by Benedict XII: DS 1000). So it must be
that God joins Himself directly to the human soul or mind,
without even an image in between so that the soul may know HIm
face to face.

2 Peter 1:4 said by this grace we share in the divine nature. So
we are made children of God,"heirs of God, fellow heirs with
Christ - provided that we suffer with Him so that we may be
glorified with Him": Rom 8:17. We notice the condition attached
at the end. We are saved and made holy if and to the extent that
we are members of Christ, and like Him. So we are not saved
alone, we are saved as brothers of Christ, sharing the same
divine nature with Him (2 Pet. 1:4).

Now the child of a Father has a claim to inherit. So we have, by
justification, a claim to inherit from our Father, to inherit a
place in His mansions. But, a merit is simply a claim. So we
could say that having grace is a merit. Yet we gained that first
grace without any merit of our own. We can, however, merit
increases in it (DS 1574), since we then have the dignity of sons
of God. If we keep that grace, we will enter His mansions. But we
could lose it by mortal sin. So Trent defined: If anyone says
that the justification that is received is not kept and even
increased before God by good works... A. S. ." But this
presupposes reception of grace for the firs time without any
merit at all. As to "keeping" justification: All concrete actions
are either good or evil. If we commit evil, mortally, we lose
that grace. If we do not commit mortal sin, then this grace is
kept.

We achieve justification by faith. But Luther, without any
checking, simply assumed that faith means confidence that the
merits of Christ apply to me. Then I would be infallibly saved,
for in a ledger for myself, on the credit page I would write
infinity, the merits of Christ; on the debit page, the number for
my sins. Hence no matter how much I have sinned, am sinning, will
sin - all is outbalanced by the infinite merits of Christ. So I
have infallible salvation.

The trouble is that, as we said, Luther made no effort to see
what St. Paul meant by <faith>. If we read all of Paul, we find
three things:1)If God speaks a truth, we believe it in our mind;
2) If He make a promise, we are confident in it; 3) If He tells
us to do something, we must do it-- "the obedience of faith" :Rom
1:5. - Even a standard Protestant reference work, <Interpreter's
Dictionary of the Bible>, in Supplement, p. 333, describes
Pauline faith just as we have done). But poor Luther did not see
that faith includes obedience to God, and so he wrote: "Be a
sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even
more boldly... . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even
though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."
(Weimar ed. vol. 2. p. 372; Letters I, <Luther's Works>, American
ed. vol. 48, p. 282. Luther in his <Exposition on the Psalms 130.
4>; wrote:"If this article [justification by faith] stands, the
church stands;' if it falls, the church falls." Since he did not
know what St. Paul meant by faith, his church never did stand. --
and further, he had no means of knowing which books are part of
Scripture. He tried to say that if a book preaches justification
by faith strongly, it is inspired. He did not notice that most
books of Scripture do not even mention the subject.

Here are the chief texts of the Council of Trent on these
matters:

First Stage

<Capitulum 8 on justification>. DS 1532: "... we are said to be
justified gratuitously for this reason, because nothing of those
things that come before justification, whether faith, or works,
earns the grace of justification itself... ."

Second Stage

<Canon 32 on Justification>. DS 1582: "If any one says that the
works of a man who has been justified [has received first grace]
are in such a way the gifts of God that they are not also the
good merits of the one who is justified, or that the one who is
justified does not really merit by good works, which are done by
him through the grace of God and Jesus Christ [does not really
merit] eternal life and the attainment of eternal life itself (if
however he dies in grace) and even an increase in glory, let him
be anathema." COMMENT: They are merit in that they are a claim to
a reward. The claim is established since first grace, unearned,
makes us children of God, who as such have a claim to inherit.
And we are brothers of Christ, who did establish a claim albeit
on the secondary level. After we are made children of God, this
dignity gives a ground for merit of additions to grace.

Conclusions

1. <There is justification by faith, without works>. Examine each
of the three words:

a)<Justification>;Means getting right with God. It makes us
adopted sons (Rom 8. 17) and sharers in the divine nature (2 Pt.
1. 4) and temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 19). That is not a
spatial presence, spirits do not take up space. A spirit is
present wherever he causes an effect. What effect? The
transformation of the soul making it radically capable of the
vision of God in the next life: 1 Cor 13.12.

2)<Faith> It is itself a gift (Eph 2.8). It includes three things
according to Paul:belief in mind, confidence, obedience.

3)<Without works>: which works? Not just the ceremonial and
dietary works for that could imply that other works can justify
us. But they cannot do that for no man is just before God by his
own power (Rom 3.24:we are justified gratis). Abraham had works
other than those, but they did not earn justification, if they
did, he would have a boast, but not before God.

Final salvation is an <inheritance>:1 Cor 6.9-10. We could not
earn the inheritance, nor need we do it, but we could earn to
lose it:ibid. We are adopted children. But children do not earn
their inheritance, though they could earn to lose it: Rom 6.23.
We get a claim not of ourselves, but inasmuch as we are
brothers/members of Christ, who did earn, and are like Him in all
things, including work of rebalancing the objective order: Rom
8.17. Yet we do have a claim, inasmuch as first grace, unmerited,
makes us children of God, who as such, have a claim to inherit.

2. What of the OT "justifications"? They did not of themselves
give this grace, but promised temporal reward: Probably did not
know eternal reward until time of Antiochus IV. -- And no OT
sacrifice was provided for sins <be yad ramah>, but only for
<sheggagah>.

3. Why good works? Because faith includes obedience, which calls
for them. Also, out of gratitude to so good a Father who even
gives us by grace an inclination to good works. He, being
Holiness, loves all that is good, and so is pleased with our good
works. But they do not at all earn salvation in primary sense
(Cf. DS 1532 above):if they did, we would have a boast.

Justification is not getting right with God, it is God making us right to Him.

 

[john w]

LOL. Okay. I guess 2,000 years of the saints, popes, bishops, doctors of the Church, and all the faithful got it all wrong all this time, and for 2,000 years we were waiting for you to steer us straight.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but your blatant simple statement is a bit laughable to me.

Translation: When you discover objective truth, determines if it is, in fact, objective truth, and thus God the Father was not God the Father, until the Lord Jesus Christ revealed him, as such, and the earth is actually flat, as it being spherical, is a relatively recent discovery.


I would suggest you lay it down, as I surmise that even the RCO thinks you are embarrassing them.

 

[musterion]

You can't make yourself pleasing to God by observing the Law. However, somehow it is possible to please God by more than belief or believing.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?131483-Justification&p=5298401&viewfull=1#post5298401

 

[Jacob]

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?131483-Justification&p=5298401&viewfull=1#post5298401

What? Just posting an unexpected link is not supposed to mean anything to me is it?

 

[john w]

JUSTIFICATION: DOCTRINE OF COUNCIL OF TRENT
By Father William Most
http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/JUSTITRT.TXT

What is justification? Loosely, it means getting right with God.
But there is an impassable gap between the Catholic and the
Lutheran position after that point. Luther insisted that even
after justification we are totally corrupt and really, have no
free will (<The Bondage of the Will>). The Catholic teaching is
that justification means the reception of (sanctifying) grace for
the first time. This grace changes us, making us share in the
divine nature( 2 Peter 1. 4) which is far different from being
totally corrupt. It gives us the basic ability to take part in
the face to face vision of God in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). So
the soul becomes even now the temple of the Holy Spirit: 1 Cor
6:19 -could we imagine God joining Himself for eternity to a soul
that is totally corrupt? Rather,"who can stand when He appears?
For He is like the refiner's fire": Mal 3:2).

This is a tremendous thought. When I look at you, I do not take
you into my mind, I take in an image of you. But no image could
let me know what God really is, so there must be no image in the
process (Defined thus by Benedict XII: DS 1000). So it must be
that God joins Himself directly to the human soul or mind,
without even an image in between so that the soul may know HIm
face to face.

2 Peter 1:4 said by this grace we share in the divine nature. So
we are made children of God,"heirs of God, fellow heirs with
Christ - provided that we suffer with Him so that we may be
glorified with Him": Rom 8:17. We notice the condition attached
at the end. We are saved and made holy if and to the extent that
we are members of Christ, and like Him. So we are not saved
alone, we are saved as brothers of Christ, sharing the same
divine nature with Him (2 Pet. 1:4).

Now the child of a Father has a claim to inherit. So we have, by
justification, a claim to inherit from our Father, to inherit a
place in His mansions. But, a merit is simply a claim. So we
could say that having grace is a merit. Yet we gained that first
grace without any merit of our own. We can, however, merit
increases in it (DS 1574), since we then have the dignity of sons
of God. If we keep that grace, we will enter His mansions. But we
could lose it by mortal sin. So Trent defined: If anyone says
that the justification that is received is not kept and even
increased before God by good works... A. S. ." But this
presupposes reception of grace for the firs time without any
merit at all. As to "keeping" justification: All concrete actions
are either good or evil. If we commit evil, mortally, we lose
that grace. If we do not commit mortal sin, then this grace is
kept.

We achieve justification by faith. But Luther, without any
checking, simply assumed that faith means confidence that the
merits of Christ apply to me. Then I would be infallibly saved,
for in a ledger for myself, on the credit page I would write
infinity, the merits of Christ; on the debit page, the number for
my sins. Hence no matter how much I have sinned, am sinning, will
sin - all is outbalanced by the infinite merits of Christ. So I
have infallible salvation.

The trouble is that, as we said, Luther made no effort to see
what St. Paul meant by <faith>. If we read all of Paul, we find
three things:1)If God speaks a truth, we believe it in our mind;
2) If He make a promise, we are confident in it; 3) If He tells
us to do something, we must do it-- "the obedience of faith" :Rom
1:5. - Even a standard Protestant reference work, <Interpreter's
Dictionary of the Bible>, in Supplement, p. 333, describes
Pauline faith just as we have done). But poor Luther did not see
that faith includes obedience to God, and so he wrote: "Be a
sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even
more boldly... . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even
though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."
(Weimar ed. vol. 2. p. 372; Letters I, <Luther's Works>, American
ed. vol. 48, p. 282. Luther in his <Exposition on the Psalms 130.
4>; wrote:"If this article [justification by faith] stands, the
church stands;' if it falls, the church falls." Since he did not
know what St. Paul meant by faith, his church never did stand. --
and further, he had no means of knowing which books are part of
Scripture. He tried to say that if a book preaches justification
by faith strongly, it is inspired. He did not notice that most
books of Scripture do not even mention the subject.

Here are the chief texts of the Council of Trent on these
matters:

First Stage

<Capitulum 8 on justification>. DS 1532: "... we are said to be
justified gratuitously for this reason, because nothing of those
things that come before justification, whether faith, or works,
earns the grace of justification itself... ."

Second Stage

<Canon 32 on Justification>. DS 1582: "If any one says that the
works of a man who has been justified [has received first grace]
are in such a way the gifts of God that they are not also the
good merits of the one who is justified, or that the one who is
justified does not really merit by good works, which are done by
him through the grace of God and Jesus Christ [does not really
merit] eternal life and the attainment of eternal life itself (if
however he dies in grace) and even an increase in glory, let him
be anathema." COMMENT: They are merit in that they are a claim to
a reward. The claim is established since first grace, unearned,
makes us children of God, who as such have a claim to inherit.
And we are brothers of Christ, who did establish a claim albeit
on the secondary level. After we are made children of God, this
dignity gives a ground for merit of additions to grace.

Conclusions

1. <There is justification by faith, without works>. Examine each
of the three words:

a)<Justification>;Means getting right with God. It makes us
adopted sons (Rom 8. 17) and sharers in the divine nature (2 Pt.
1. 4) and temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 19). That is not a
spatial presence, spirits do not take up space. A spirit is
present wherever he causes an effect. What effect? The
transformation of the soul making it radically capable of the
vision of God in the next life: 1 Cor 13.12.

2)<Faith> It is itself a gift (Eph 2.8). It includes three things
according to Paul:belief in mind, confidence, obedience.

3)<Without works>: which works? Not just the ceremonial and
dietary works for that could imply that other works can justify
us. But they cannot do that for no man is just before God by his
own power (Rom 3.24:we are justified gratis). Abraham had works
other than those, but they did not earn justification, if they
did, he would have a boast, but not before God.

Final salvation is an <inheritance>:1 Cor 6.9-10. We could not
earn the inheritance, nor need we do it, but we could earn to
lose it:ibid. We are adopted children. But children do not earn
their inheritance, though they could earn to lose it: Rom 6.23.
We get a claim not of ourselves, but inasmuch as we are
brothers/members of Christ, who did earn, and are like Him in all
things, including work of rebalancing the objective order: Rom
8.17. Yet we do have a claim, inasmuch as first grace, unmerited,
makes us children of God, who as such, have a claim to inherit.

2. What of the OT "justifications"? They did not of themselves
give this grace, but promised temporal reward: Probably did not
know eternal reward until time of Antiochus IV. -- And no OT
sacrifice was provided for sins <be yad ramah>, but only for
<sheggagah>.

3. Why good works? Because faith includes obedience, which calls
for them. Also, out of gratitude to so good a Father who even
gives us by grace an inclination to good works. He, being
Holiness, loves all that is good, and so is pleased with our good
works. But they do not at all earn salvation in primary sense
(Cf. DS 1532 above):if they did, we would have a boast.

Translation of the above: Roman propaganda, not based upon the scriptures,but with which these RCO clowns, in clown outfits, indoctrinate their Pied Piper followers.