JOHN'S BAPTISM

[DougE]

1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. JOHN 1:31
It can be seen here that John's baptism was to prepare Israel to recognize the promised coming Messiah.
John's baptism was to identify Jesus as the Christ, The Son of God to Israel; to prepare Israel for the coming kingdom.
John's baptism is not for us, it was for Israel.

 

[TestedandTried]

1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. JOHN 1:31
It can be seen here that John's baptism was to prepare Israel to recognize the promised coming Messiah.
John's baptism was to identify Jesus as the Christ, The Son of God to Israel; to prepare Israel for the coming kingdom.
John's baptism is not for us, it was for Israel.

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance first and foremost and yes, that helped prepare the way of the Lord just as prophesied.

Acts 19:3-5 New International Version (NIV)
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

...and...

Isaiah 40:3:
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God

 

[Right Divider]

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance first and foremost and yes, that helped prepare the way of the Lord just as prophesied.

Indeed, John was calling Israel to repent and turn to the Lord.

Every single person that John baptized was an Israelite.

Acts 19:3-5 New International Version (NIV)
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

...and...

Isaiah 40:3:
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God

Isaiah was an Israelite; a prophet of Israel.

"Our God" in that passage refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Isa 40:1-3 KJV Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. (2) Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins. (3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

Verse 1: "ye my people" -- Israel
Verse 2: Speaking to Jerusalem -- Israel's capital.

It's 100% about Israel and God's dealing with them.

 

[TestedandTried]

Indeed, John was calling Israel to repent and turn to the Lord.

Every single person that John baptized was an Israelite.


Isaiah was an Israelite; a prophet of Israel.

"Our God" in that passage refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Isa 40:1-3 KJV Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. (2) Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins. (3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

Verse 1: "ye my people" -- Israel
Verse 2: Speaking to Jerusalem -- Israel's capital.

It's 100% about Israel and God's dealing with them.

One can never say 100%. Some of the OT Laws had allowances for Gentiles coming in even though original language forbade them.
Jesus Himself had mercy on not a few Gentiles and healed them due to their faith...the Canaanite woman, the Samaritan woman, the Centurion, Zacchaeus the tax collector of whom there can be no doubt for Jesus said of him...
Luke 19:9-10:
“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Yet we know Jesus said salvation is from the Jews.

Why wouldn't John have baptized a sincere Gentile? We don't know 100%. We know his mission and that was to call and prepare the Jews.

 

[Right Divider]

One can never say 100%. Some of the OT Laws had allowances for Gentiles coming in even though original language forbade them.

I never said that gentiles were excluded, just that everything there was 100% talking about Israel and God's relationship with them.

Jesus Himself had mercy on not a few Gentiles and healed them due to their faith...the Canaanite woman, the Samaritan woman, the Centurion, Zacchaeus the tax collector of whom there can be no doubt for Jesus said of him...
Luke 19:9-10:
“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

And still, when scripture says "my people", God is talking about Israel

Yet we know Jesus said salvation is from the Jews.

Was there a point here?

Why wouldn't John have baptized a sincere Gentile? We don't know 100%.

There is simply no evidence from scripture that he did. It's best not to speculate.

John was preparing Israel to receive their King.

We know his mission and that was to call and prepare the Jews.

Exactly my point all along.

 

[TestedandTried]

I never said that gentiles were excluded, just that everything there was 100% talking about Israel and God's relationship with them.


And still, when scripture says "my people", God is talking about Israel


Was there a point here?


There is simply no evidence from scripture that he did. It's best not to speculate.

John was preparing Israel to receive their King.


Exactly my point all along.

We do agree...I do not speculate that there were Gentiles baptized by John, only that there may have been ...based on the passages of the OT Law and Jesus' healings which all point to exceptions so in an abundance of caution I wouldn't say 100% were Jews or Israelites. Now if you are simply pointing out the language is directed to Israel then we have no disagreement.
Our baptism today is that of water and the Spirit and not one of repentance...I believe we both agree on this point too.

 

[Right Divider]

Our baptism today is that of water and the Spirit and not one of repentance...I believe we both agree on this point too.

Paul disagrees. Paul said that we have ONE baptism. Eph 4:5

 

[TestedandTried]

Paul disagrees. Paul said that we have ONE baptism. Eph 4:5

Yes, that is one baptism...the baptism of Jesus it is so called and He baptizes with the Holy Spirit as water baptism is done.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, that is one baptism...the baptism of Jesus it is so called and He baptizes with the Holy Spirit as water baptism is done.

That is all contrived nonsense.

It's fascinating when people try to throw a bunch of "Bible words" together as if that is what the Bible actually teaches.

The ONE baptism that Paul it talking about is the baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Not a drop of water anywhere in that.

1Co 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

That is from the SAME book where Paul tells us that God sent him NOT to baptize (that's water).

1Co 1:17 KJV For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
​

 

[TestedandTried]

That is all contrived nonsense.

It's fascinating when people try to throw a bunch of "Bible words" together as if that is what the Bible actually teaches.

The ONE baptism that Paul it talking about is the baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Not a drop of water anywhere in that.

1Co 12:13 KJV For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

That is from the SAME book where Paul tells us that God sent him NOT to baptize (that's water).

1Co 1:17 KJV For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
​

You have to take all Scripture into account...
Acts 8:34-37:
34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

This is after the Pentecost this is just one example from Acts of water baptism (and that is baptism with the Spirit).
Then too we have...
I Peter 3:19-22:
19 After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
The word baptism is used with a few meanings in the Bible, sometimes confusing for a new reader.
In the following passages the word baptism refers to the suffering we endure for our Christianity while here on earth...
Mark 10:37-39:
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
39 “We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with
Colossians 2:11-12:
Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
God uses symbolism to teach us...see that we were buried with Christ in baptism.
Matthew 3:11:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...KJV
Above is a baptizing with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
All examples, so carefully read in context without prejudice as you read or they won't be God's word, but rather only your own.
Remember especially the Acts accounts of baptism...this is after the ascension of Christ and therefore after also His Great Commisssion.

 

[TestedandTried]

You have to take all Scripture into account...
Acts 8:34-37:
34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

This is after the Pentecost this is just one example from Acts of water baptism (and that is baptism with the Spirit).
Then too we have...
I Peter 3:19-22:
19 After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
The word baptism is used with a few meanings in the Bible, sometimes confusing for a new reader.
In the following passages the word baptism refers to the suffering we endure for our Christianity while here on earth...
Mark 10:37-39:
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
39 “We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with
Colossians 2:11-12:
Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
God uses symbolism to teach us...see that we were buried with Christ in baptism.
Matthew 3:11:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...KJV
Above is a baptizing with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
All examples, so carefully read in context without prejudice as you read or they won't be God's word, but rather only your own.
Remember especially the Acts accounts of baptism...this is after the ascension of Christ and therefore after also His Great Commisssion.

Here's a fuller account of the eunich's baptism:
Acts 8:35-39 Evangelical Heritage Version (EHV)
35 Then Philip began to speak. Starting with that very passage of Scripture, he told him the good news about Jesus. 36 As they were traveling along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What is there to prevent me from being baptized?”
38 He ordered the chariot to stop. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. 39 When they stepped up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away. The eunuch did not see him anymore, but went on his way rejoicing.
(Definite use of water)

 

[Right Divider]

You have to take all Scripture into account...
Acts 8:34-37:
34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

This is after the Pentecost this is just one example from Acts of water baptism (and that is baptism with the Spirit).

I do take all scripture into account. Philip was one of the twelve apostles that will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. THEY were sent to baptize... Paul was sent NOT to baptize. Paul says that we are to follow him as he follows Christ.

The eunuch was a Jew from a foreign land. He was reading Isaiah, that prophet of Israel.

Then too we have...
I Peter 3:19-22:
19 After being made alive,he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
The word baptism is used with a few meanings in the Bible, sometimes confusing for a new reader.
In the following passages the word baptism refers to the suffering we endure for our Christianity while here on earth...

:mock: "new reader"

More contrived nonsense.

Mark 10:37-39:
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
39 “We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with

Nothing to do with water baptism. This baptism was death.

Colossians 2:11-12:
Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
God uses symbolism to teach us...see that we were buried with Christ in baptism.

Nothing to do with water.

Matthew 3:11:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...KJV
Above is a baptizing with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
All examples, so carefully read in context without prejudice as you read or they won't be God's word, but rather only your own.
Remember especially the Acts accounts of baptism...this is after the ascension of Christ and therefore after also His Great Commisssion.

Christ sent the twelve to baptize. Christ sent Paul NOT to baptize.

Rightly divide the word of truth and you won't be so confused.

 

[TestedandTried]

I do take all scripture into account. Philip was one of the twelve apostles that will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. THEY were sent to baptize... Paul was sent NOT to baptize. Paul says that we are to follow him as he follows Christ.

The eunuch was a Jew from a foreign land. He was reading Isaiah, that prophet of Israel.


:mock: "new reader"

More contrived nonsense.


Nothing to do with water baptism. This baptism was death.


Nothing to do with water.


Christ sent the twelve to baptize. Christ sent Paul NOT to baptize.

Rightly divide the word of truth and you won't be so confused.

You are not reading comprehensively yet. New reader means new to Bible reading...or some such problem. I'll skip the rest of your comments because of your obvious misunderstandings.
I know Philip was an apostle. Paul did not baptize except for...
I Corinthians 1:13-17:
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Oooops! (on your part; I only add this because you are quite arrogant in your posts.)

Ooops! (Again, Philip baptized... oops! (another time) it was water baptism!
Wise up or you'll be outside looking in...not my bad...I tried with you. Hint: Try to read without preconceived ideas or that you already know it all. Our goal is togetherness and holiness and sharing the Word to build one another up...fill the voids within us. Please try for Jesus sake and mine to not take this too badly, had to be done at this point.

 

[steko]

Indeed, John was calling Israel to repent and turn to the Lord.

Every single person that John baptized was an Israelite.


Isaiah was an Israelite; a prophet of Israel.

"Our God" in that passage refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Isa 40:1-3 KJV Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. (2) Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins. (3) The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

Verse 1: "ye my people" -- Israel
Verse 2: Speaking to Jerusalem -- Israel's capital.

It's 100% about Israel and God's dealing with them.

Yep! :thumb:

 

[steko]

One can never say 100%. Some of the OT Laws had allowances for Gentiles coming in even though original language forbade them.
Jesus Himself had mercy on not a few Gentiles and healed them due to their faith...the Canaanite woman, the Samaritan woman, the Centurion, Zacchaeus the tax collector of whom there can be no doubt for Jesus said of him...
Luke 19:9-10:
“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Yet we know Jesus said salvation is from the Jews.

Why wouldn't John have baptized a sincere Gentile? We don't know 100%. We know his mission and that was to call and prepare the Jews.

We do know for sure.... 100%.

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The Canaanite woman, the Samaritan woman and the Centurion gained the blessing of Abraham by acknowledging their secondary status to GOD's chosen people and for blessing them, otherwise Christ was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Zacchaeus was a Jewish publican who collected taxes from his kinsmen Israelites for the Romans.

 

[steko]

Oooops! (on your part; I only add this because you are quite arrogant in your posts.)

To the point bluntness is often misinterpreted as arrogance.

 

[TestedandTried]

Sorry, I'm done on this thread...

Do not speak to a fool,
for he will scorn the wisdom of
your words.

 

[steko]

Sorry, I'm done on this thread...

Do not speak to a fool,
for he will scorn the wisdom of
your words.

The same could be said in response to you.

You'll likely find the same frustration in another thread.

You gonna' leave all of 'em when you fail to comprehend?

 

[glorydaz]

You are not reading comprehensively yet. New reader means new to Bible reading...or some such problem. I'll skip the rest of your comments because of your obvious misunderstandings.
I know Philip was an apostle. Paul did not baptize except for...
I Corinthians 1:13-17:
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Oooops! (on your part; I only add this because you are quite arrogant in your posts.)

Ooops! (Again, Philip baptized... oops! (another time) it was water baptism!
Wise up or you'll be outside looking in...not my bad...I tried with you. Hint: Try to read without preconceived ideas or that you already know it all. Our goal is togetherness and holiness and sharing the Word to build one another up...fill the voids within us. Please try for Jesus sake and mine to not take this too badly, had to be done at this point.

Spare us the hypocrisy. It's only making you look the fool.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, that is one baptism...the baptism of Jesus it is so called and He baptizes with the Holy Spirit as water baptism is done.

You say, "He baptizes with the Holy Spirit". Then you throw in water baptism from out of nowhere.

Paul says clearly we are baptized BY ONE SPIRIT INTO ONE BODY. NOT baptized "with the Spirit" into water.

1 Cor. 12:13KJV

There is a difference.