John Calvin said this....

[Clete]

I have a collection of quotes of John Calvin that I think most Calvinists wouldn't admit to agreeing with, if they agree at all. In this thread I'll post one from time to time and we'll see just how many real Calvinists there are around here.

Ready? Here we go.....

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

Quote 2 & 3: Added 9/3/15 - post 109...

“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)​

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”He testifies that He creates light and darkness, forms good and evil (Isaiah 45:7); that no evil happens which He hath not done (Amos 3:6).* Let them tell me whether God exercises His judgments willingly or unwillingly.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 18, Paragraph 3)​

Quote 4, 5, 6 & 7: Posted on9/4/15 - Post 221

“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)​

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“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)​

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“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)​

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“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)​

Quote 8 posted on 9/7/15 post 272

“But since he foresees future events only by reason of the fact that he decreed that they take place, they vainly raise a quarrel over foreknowledge, when it is clear that all things take place rather by his determination and bidding.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

Quote 9 posted on 9/22/15 post #399

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

Quote 10 posted on 8/11/16 Post 580

"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)​

Quote 11 posted on 9/18/16 Post 582

"I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will...​

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...Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23)​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Robert Pate]

I have a collection of quotes of John Calvin that I think most Calvinists wouldn't admit to agreeing with, if they agree at all. In this thread I'll post one from time to time and we'll see just how many real Calvinists there are around here.

Ready? Here we go.....

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

Resting in Him,
Clete

According to John Calvin, we are all just a bunch of dumb mindless robots.

 

[HisServant]

I have a collection of quotes of John Calvin that I think most Calvinists wouldn't admit to agreeing with, if they agree at all. In this thread I'll post one from time to time and we'll see just how many real Calvinists there are around here.

Ready? Here we go.....

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)​

Resting in Him,
Clete

I have no problem with this statement....

Afterall, Satan had to ask permission to tempt Job...

God allows Satan to do his evil for our own good and to show his grace.

 

[Clete]

I have no problem with this statement....

Afterall, Satan had to ask permission to tempt Job...

God allows Satan to do his evil for our own good and to show his grace.

I'm not sure you read the quote!

If Satan asked permission then according to John Calvin, he did so because God predestined that he would ask permission and God, according to John Calvin, does not merely allow anything, He commands it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[HisServant]

I'm not sure you read the quote!

If Satan asked permission then according to John Calvin, he did so because God predestined that he would ask permission and God, according to John Calvin, does not merely allow anything, He commands it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

That is also true.

God is the alpha and omega... the beginning, end and everything in between is all under his absolute control.... not a single hair falls out of your head unless he decreed it.

Your assumption is based on God creating a stone that is too big for him to move.

 

[Clete]

Wow!!

I mean really - Wow!

How can you believe that your god is just?

I'd be interested to know what you think it means to be just. Can you explain it?

Clete

 

[HisServant]

Wow!!

I mean really - Wow!

How can you believe that your god is just?

I'd be interested to know what you think it means to be just. Can you explain it?

Clete

You are judging God based on your own sense of justice.

He he were just, you would never have breathed a breath... neither would I for that matter.

 

[Clete]

You are judging God based on your own sense of justice.

He he were just, you would never have breathed a breath... neither would I for that matter.

On the contrary!

My God is just and insists that the demands of justice be met! If this were not so and justice was arbitrary,as you seem to believe, then there would be no need for God the Son to die in our place as a propriciatory sacrifice. We deserve death, yes but we need not die because God has paid the price that justice demands with His own Son's blood.

So, contrary to your claim, I live because of God's justice!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[HisServant]

On the contrary!

My God is just and insists that the demands of justice be met! If this were not so and justice was arbitrary,as you seem to believe, then there would be no need for God the Son to die in our place as a propriciatory sacrifice. We deserve death, yes but we need not die because God has paid the price that justice demands with His own Son's blood.

So, contrary to your claim, I live because of God's justice!

Resting in Him,
Clete

Your justice is arbitrary... I'm sorry you do not realize that.

If God were just according to you, then he would have pushed the reset button when Adam and Eve fell and none of us would be here.

God will have mercy on those he choses to.. there is nothing immoral or unjust about that.

 

[Clete]

Your justice is arbitrary... I'm sorry you do not realize that.

If God were just according to you, then he would have pushed the reset button when Adam and Eve fell and none of us would be here.

That was a stupid thing to say.

Please explain what you understand the word 'justice' to mean.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Robert Pate]

Your justice is arbitrary... I'm sorry you do not realize that.

If God were just according to you, then he would have pushed the reset button when Adam and Eve fell and none of us would be here.

God will have mercy on those he choses to.. there is nothing immoral or unjust about that.

So you believe that God is a dumb robot also.

 

[HisServant]

So you believe that God is a dumb robot also.

No, I believe you are too dumb to understand him.... and all your posts demonstrate your limited mental capacities to think bigger than yourself... so you relegate God to being as dumb as yourself because that is all you can comprehend.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

That is also true.

God is the alpha and omega... the beginning, end and everything in between is all under his absolute control.... not a single hair falls out of your head unless he decreed it.

If I believed that to be true Christianity would be the most vile, evil, religion to have ever existed.

 

[eddie17]

The devil is Gods devil,he made him and he has him under control,just where he wants him.

 

[HisServant]

If I believed that to be true Christianity would be the most vile, evil, religion to have ever existed.

As a religion, I would agree with you.

But understanding your place in all of creation is the first step toward understanding God.

He is not human, he is not bound by time, he is the the creator of all.. both good and bad... and scripture says as much. Whether you like it or not.. you decreeing it vile and evil is of no consequence to him.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, I believe you are too dumb to understand him.... and all your posts demonstrate your limited mental capacities to think bigger than yourself... so you relegate God to being as dumb as yourself because that is all you can comprehend.

The God of the Bible is just, merciful, righteous and is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Your God is a mean unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is why you are lost. It is not humanly possible to have saving faith in a God such as this.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

He is not human, he is not bound by time, he is the the creator of all.. both good and bad... and scripture says as much. Whether you like it or not.. you decreeing it vile and evil is of no consequence to him.

That's not the God of the Bible.

God is personal, loving, merciful, and relational. What you are describing is a stone idol.

 

[HisServant]

That's not the God of the Bible.

God is personal, loving, merciful, and relational. What you are describing is a stone idol.

How so?

God was certain was not any of those to whom he deemed enemies of Israel...he instituted the hareem policy (kill every man, woman and child.. and sometimes animals).

There was nothing personal, loving, merciful or relational with that decree.. those people didn't even have a choice... and weren't even given the opportunity to negotiate because God specifically commanded Israel to not make treaties..

God does not change... he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

 

[Clete]

How so?

God was certain was not any of those to whom he deemed enemies of Israel...he instituted the hareem policy (kill every man, woman and child.. and sometimes animals).

There was nothing personal, loving, merciful or relational with that decree.. those people didn't even have a choice... and weren't even given the opportunity to negotiate because God specifically commanded Israel to not make treaties..

God does not change... he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Why won't you answer my question?

What is justice?

 

[Adam]

You are judging God based on your own sense of justice.

And yet if I asked you what God's sense of justice is, you would not be able to answer, just as you have not been able to answer Clete. For you, like most Calvinists, probably believe that we are unable to know the mind of God or how He would rule on any matter.

But understanding your place in all of creation is the first step toward understanding God.

At the same time, you want us to know our place in all of this creation. That's fine, but to know one's place, means to also know the place of others, which you do not. You do not know the place of God (see above).