Jezreel, Esdraelon, Ahab and Jezebel and the Battle of Armageddon

[northwye]

Jezreel, Esdraelon, Ahab and Jezebel and the Battle of Armageddon

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." Revelation 16: 13-15

Those who insist on making end time prophecy literal say this is talking about a physical battle of flesh and blood between the state of Israel, and the enemies of that state.

Armageddon is from the Hebrew term Har-Megiddon - the Mountain of Megiddo. Megiddo was an ancient city in the Plain of Esdraelon.

Esdraelon is the Greek word for Jezreel. Hosea 1: 4 says “And the Lord said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel”

King Ahab had married a priestess of Baal called Ishabaal – Jezebel in the Bible. She was the daughter of the King of Sidon. Ahab wanted the vineyard of Naboth, and Jezebel came up with a plan to falsely accuse Naboth of blasphemy, including bringing two false witnesses against him.

But there was none like unto Ahab, which did sell himself to work wickedness in the sight of the Lord, whom Jezebel his wife stirred up” I Kings 16:30.

After a period of apostasy, led by Ahab and inspired by Jezebel, God raised up Jehu, and he had Ahab’s 70 grandsons beheaded, with their heads stuffed into baskets and delivered to Jezreel. Jehu’s followers then killed Jezebel by throwing her out of a high window, to the ground below, where the dogs ate her body.

Jezreel, which is known as Esdraelon in Greek is where Armageddon, the Big Battle of the end time is to occur. But this Big Battle is a spiritual conflict which is already going on.

 

[jamie]

Armageddon is from the Hebrew term Har-Megiddon - the Mountain of Megiddo.

Megiddon mean rendezvous. Armageddon refers to the mount of rendezvous which is the Mt. of Olives. (Zechariah 14:3-4)

The Mt. of Olives has not yet been split in two.

 

[northwye]

OK - Strongs for number 4023 (Hebrew) says megiddo means rendezvous.

Zechariah 14: 3-4: "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4.And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

You have to be careful in interpreting end time prophecy from the Old Testament in the New Covenant time.

What James said in Acts 15: 13-17 shows a little on the use of Old Testament prophecy in the timeline of the New Covenant, even though James at that time apparently did not fully accept the teachings of Paul on the issue of Hebrews 10: 1 and Colossians 2: 16-17.

"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

James is quoting Amos 9: 11-12; "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12. That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this."

James did not interpret Amos 9: 11-12 literally, that is, that God would restore the tabernacle of David, meaning to restore Old Covenant Israel. Instead, James said that Amos 9: 11-12 means that God would take a people for himself out of the Gentiles. Literally, Amos 9: 11-12 does not say God was to take some of his elect out of the Gentiles.

People get into false doctrine with some Old Testament prophecies by interpreting them from the point of view of the Old Covenant. The splitting of Mount Olives into two parts may be metaphoric from the New Covenant spirit of interpretation.

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?......,......,.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

This is a little subtle. Paul is calling the Old Covenant the ministration of death and the New Covenant the ministration of the Spirit, and is saying that the Old Covenant was done away.

Paul is saying much the same thing he said in Romans 9: 6-8 and in Galatians 4: 24-26.

 

[jamie]

James did not interpret Amos 9: 11-12 literally, that is, that God would restore the tabernacle of David, meaning to restore Old Covenant Israel.

Is that why the apostles asked Jesus if he would at that time restore the kingdom to Israel? (Acts 1:6)

Maybe they asked because they didn't believe the kingdom was literal. They might have thought it was a metaphor, right?

 

[Wick Stick]

Megiddon mean rendezvous. Armageddon refers to the mount of rendezvous which is the Mt. of Olives. (Zechariah 14:3-4)

The Mt. of Olives has not yet been split in two.

No.

You can find the valley of Megiddo on any regular old map, and you can visit the fortress-hill in the middle of it. It's an archeological dig. I've been there.

Without trying to delve into the signification, I can tell you that the literal place is a valley just east of Mount Carmel. It's not close to the Mount of Olives.

 

[northwye]

C. I. Scofield claimed that "Not one instance exists of a 'spiritual' or figurative fulfilment of prophecy... Jerusalem is always Jerusalem, Israel is always Israel, Zion is always Zion... Prophecies may never be spiritualised, but are always literal." C.I. Scofield, Scofield Bible Correspondence Course (Chicago, Moody Bible Institute), pp. 45-46.

Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has
"...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447.....

Some New Testament scriptures are too subtle for the mind of those in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 to understand. And so Chafer and others changed the interpretations of these key scriptures which are hard for the guy in the state of the natural man to understand because the scriptures are too subtle. What came out of this change is the theology saying God has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel and the Church, with a capital C.

 

[chair]

No.

You can find the valley of Megiddo on any regular old map, and you can visit the fortress-hill in the middle of it. It's an archeological dig. I've been there.

Without trying to delve into the signification, I can tell you that the literal place is a valley just east of Mount Carmel. It's not close to the Mount of Olives.

Yep. It's about a half hour drive from here...

 

[Totton Linnet]

OK - Strongs for number 4023 (Hebrew) says megiddo means rendezvous.

Zechariah 14: 3-4: "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4.And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

You have to be careful in interpreting end time prophecy from the Old Testament in the New Covenant time.

What James said in Acts 15: 13-17 shows a little on the use of Old Testament prophecy in the timeline of the New Covenant, even though James at that time apparently did not fully accept the teachings of Paul on the issue of Hebrews 10: 1 and Colossians 2: 16-17.

"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

James is quoting Amos 9: 11-12; "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12. That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this."

James did not interpret Amos 9: 11-12 literally, that is, that God would restore the tabernacle of David, meaning to restore Old Covenant Israel. Instead, James said that Amos 9: 11-12 means that God would take a people for himself out of the Gentiles. Literally, Amos 9: 11-12 does not say God was to take some of his elect out of the Gentiles.

People get into false doctrine with some Old Testament prophecies by interpreting them from the point of view of the Old Covenant. The splitting of Mount Olives into two parts may be metaphoric from the New Covenant spirit of interpretation.

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?......,......,.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

This is a little subtle. Paul is calling the Old Covenant the ministration of death and the New Covenant the ministration of the Spirit, and is saying that the Old Covenant was done away.

Paul is saying much the same thing he said in Romans 9: 6-8 and in Galatians 4: 24-26.

Paul is specifically speaking about the covenant of the law, THAT is done away...but the covenant with Abe is an everlasting covenant. Paul says that the law which came later does not annul the promise to Abe.

Part of that pledge by God is that Abe's seed would inherit the land and possess it forever

You are quite blind to what Paul says is God's plan for the fullness of times "to unite ALL things in Christ Jesus whether they be things in heaven or things ON EARTH"

There is the heavenly inheritance and the earthly inheritance

Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth

 

[northwye]

"but the covenant with Abe is an everlasting covenant. Paul says that the law which came later does not annul the promise to Abe.

Part of that pledge by God is that Abe's seed would inherit the land and possess it forever

You are quite blind to what Paul says is God's plan for the fullness of times "to unite ALL things in Christ Jesus whether they be things in heaven or things ON EARTH""

"For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20. And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven." Colossians 1: 19-20

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?.........Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ..........For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 3, 16, 26-29

The promise to Abraham in the New Covenant is spiritual, not of flesh and blood, as Galatians 3: 16 and 3: 26-29 say.

Part of the struggle or battle - which is a spiritual conflict - is between those who mix the covenants so that parts of the Old Covenant are said to remain in place in the New Covenant and those who follow Hebrews 10: 9, Colossians 2: 16-16 and II Corinthians 3: 6-11. That is, those who do not believe that parts of the Old Covenant now remain in place war with those who do believe the Old Covenant was not totally done away with.

And again, Acts 15: 14-17 is an example of how a doctrine of the Old Covenant was interpreted in the New Covenant. Israel was remade as Jeremiah 18: 1-6 says it would be, and I Peter 2: 5 says "ye" are built up a spiritual house.

Why mix the covenants? From the point of view of 2016 - and the unfolding of the move to unite the major world religions - Protestant Evangelicals, Other Protestants, Catholics, Jews and the Muslims - it makes sense for Christian Zionism to largely take over the Protestant Evangelicals as one step toward the one world religion and move closer to a Judeo-Christian religion. The next step would be to unite with the Catholics and the moderate Muslims to create an Abrahamic religion. Those in Christian Zionism may not be aware at all that they are doing this.

 

[jamie]

The promise to Abraham in the New Covenant is spiritual...

Is the land God gave to Abraham also spiritual? (Genesis 28:13-14)

 

[chair]

OK - Strongs for number 4023 (Hebrew) says megiddo means rendezvous....

It is a place name. Here is Strongs:
Mgiddown: Megiddo
Original Word: מְגִדּוֹן
Part of Speech: Proper Name Location
Transliteration: Mgiddown
Phonetic Spelling: (meg-id-done')
Short Definition: Megiddo

he explains that word may come from the word for rendezvous:
Megiddo, Megiddon
(Zech. 'abdan or Mgiddow {meg-id-do'}; from gadad; rendezvous; Megiddon or Megiddo, a place in Palestine -- Megiddo, Megiddon.

 

[patrick jane]

It is a place name. Here is Strongs:
Mgiddown: Megiddo
Original Word: מְגִדּוֹן
Part of Speech: Proper Name Location
Transliteration: Mgiddown
Phonetic Spelling: (meg-id-done')
Short Definition: Megiddo

he explains that word may come from the word for rendezvous:
Megiddo, Megiddon
(Zech. 'abdan or Mgiddow {meg-id-do'}; from gadad; rendezvous; Megiddon or Megiddo, a place in Palestine -- Megiddo, Megiddon.

Megiddo