Jesus the Pharisees and the Law

[Robert Pate]

Jesus and the Pharisees were both teachers of the law. You would think that because they both taught the law that they would be friends. Not a chance, they were bitter enemies. What is the law and what was its purpose. There is only one law it is the law of Moses. Many believe that there are two laws. The law of Moses and the law of Christ. Jesus took the law of Moses elevated it and spiritualized it. But he did not change it or create a new law. It is still the law of Moses. An example is when Jesus said, "It has been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery" Matthew 5:31,32. Jesus did not change the law, he elevated it.

Jesus also spiritualized the law. Paul wrote, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin" Romans 7:14. The spiritual law searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Some may do pretty well with the written law, but when it comes to the spiritual law that searches the desires and the intent of the heart they fail every time. This is why Paul referred to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. To keep the spiritual law all of your thoughts would have to be without sin.

The law was given to the Jews as a keeper until Jesus arrived and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The reason that it was abolished was because Christian were no longer required to live according to rules and laws. The new way of living was by Spirit and by faith. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules, commandments is not living by Spirit and faith, its living by religion. To live by Spirit is to live by the Gospel. In the Gospel, Jesus has perfected our humanity and has taken it to heaven. This is why Paul wrote, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3 Paul also said, "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10. Knowledgeable Christians are no longer concerned about law keeping, or sin. They believe that they are perfect and complete "In Christ". The difference between the Christian and the religious person is that one is living by Spirit and faith, while the other is living by laws, rules and religion.

 

[clefty]

Jesus and the Pharisees were both teachers of the law. You would think that because they both taught the law that they would be friends. Not a chance, they were bitter enemies. What is the law and what was its purpose. There is only one law it is the law of Moses. Many believe that there are two laws. The law of Moses and the law of Christ. Jesus took the law of Moses elevated it and spiritualized it. But he did not change it or create a new law. It is still the law of Moses. An example is when Jesus said, "It has been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:31,32. Jesus did not change the law, he elevated it.

Jesus also spiritualized the law. Paul wrote, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin" Romans 7:14. The spiritual law searches the desires and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. Some may do pretty well with the written law, but when it comes to the spiritual law that searches the desires and the intent of the heart they fail every time. This is why Paul referred to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. To keep the spiritual law all of your thoughts would have to be without sin.

The law was given to the Jews as a keeper until Jesus arrived and then it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The reason that it was abolished was because Christian were no longer required to live according to rules and laws. The new way of living was by Spirit and by faith. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules, commandments is not living by Spirit and faith, its living by religion. To live by Spirit is to live by the Gospel. In the Gospel, Jesus has perfected our humanity and has taken it to heaven. This is why Paul wrote, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3 Paul also said, "And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" Colossians 2:10. Knowledgeable Christians are no longer concerned about law keeping, or sin. They believe that they are perfect and complete "In Christ". The difference between the Christian and the religious person is that one is living by faith, while the other is living by laws, rule and religion.

Yes yes...living in faith means a lawless life...no rules...the Spirit in fact won't have you follow a Way...but lead you to be less like not more like Him His way...

Once saved nothing we do will distinguish us or set us apart from the world...

Do what thou wilt...whatever whenever

Right?

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes yes...living in faith means a lawless life...no rules...the Spirit in fact won't have you follow a Way...but lead you to be less like not more like Him His way...

Living by Spirit and faith is the way that God wants his people to live. The law is written on their heart, but not on their brain. To live by faith is to live by the Gospel. If you live by laws and commandments you are under the law and will be judged by the law and condemned. Where there is law there must be judgment and condemnation.

 

[clefty]

Living by Spirit and faith is the way that God wants his people to live.

yup and following the spirit you actually follow Him His Way and thus Love as He does which in turn fulfills the Law...all By faith and led in our living by the Spirit that makes more like Him living more like Him His obedience to His Father's Law...not less

The law is written on their heart, but not on their brain.

actually the Law is inscribed in our minds...

live by faith is to live by the Gospel.

and the Spirit...now serious do you think the Spirit would ever lead you outside the Law? Have you do something He did NOT do?

If you live by laws and commandments you are under the law and will be judged by the law and condemned. Where there is law there must be judgment and condemnation.

Condemned only if outside Him His grace...

Again as with sports if you commit a foul or error you are not immediately removed from the game...if you insist and persist well...no sacrifice remains for you...

Follow Him do as He did love as He loved...this will fulfill the Law...because it still remains still points out sin and demands fulfillment...duh

 

[Robert Pate]

yup and following the spirit you actually follow Him His Way and thus Love as He does which in turn fulfills the Law...all By faith and led in our living by the Spirit that makes more like Him living more like Him His obedience to His Father's Law...not less

actually the Law is inscribed in our minds...

and the Spirit...now serious do you think the Spirit would ever lead you outside the Law? Have you do something He did NOT do?



Condemned only if outside Him His grace...

Again as with sports if you commit a foul or error you are not immediately removed from the game...if you insist and persist well...no sacrifice remains for you...

Follow Him do as He did love as He loved...this will fulfill the Law...because it still remains still points out sin and demands fulfillment...duh

Thankfully, the law has already been fulfilled and abolished in Jesus Christ. However, the law reminds us that we have missed the mark and all of our righteousness comes short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. When we discover this we run to Jesus to be saved by him. This is one of the purposes of the law, to keep us close to Christ.

 

[clefty]

Thankfully, the law has already been fulfilled and abolished in Jesus Christ. However, the law reminds us that we have missed the mark and all of our righteousness comes short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. When we discover this we run to Jesus to be saved by him. This is one of the purposes of the law, to keep us close to Christ.

Right good...so it is NOT abolished...HalleluYah... but remains to remind us and cause us to flee to Him and His Grace...we are in turn to establish it elsewhere by the gospel message logically...

The Law indeed reminds us of what we do/did...and then what He did/does for us...we now wish to love and live as He did...we desire to die and live in Him...more like not less...just as...and soon for just as long...as was intended before this detour of sin and revelation of Law...HalleluYah

 

[Bradley D]

Thankfully, the law has already been fulfilled and abolished in Jesus Christ. However, the law reminds us that we have missed the mark and all of our righteousness comes short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. When we discover this we run to Jesus to be saved by him. This is one of the purposes of the law, to keep us close to Christ.

Jesus did not come to abolish the law.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).

If we did not have the law then we would not know how to live.

"But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully" (1 Tim. 1:8).

 

[clefty]

Jesus did not come to abolish the law.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).

If we did not have the law then we would not know how to live.

"But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully" (1 Tim. 1:8).

Yes but Robert Pate already admits as much:

"However, the law reminds us that we have missed the mark and all of our righteousness comes short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. When we discover this we run to Jesus to be saved by him. This is one of the purposes of the law, to keep us close to Christ."

 

[jamie]

Thankfully, the law has already been fulfilled and abolished in Jesus Christ.

Paul and James both explained that love fulfills the law.

Jesus was not sent to abolish love. That's absurd.

 

[Robert Pate]

Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to the law.

The words "Law" and "religion" basically mean the same thing. When you are doing your religion you are doing the law. When you are doing the law you are doing religion.

Any religious thing that we do is religion.

There is good religion, this is work that is done out of gratitude for what Christ has done for us.

There is bad religion, this is work that is done to try and make ones self holy.

The Bible makes it clear that we are not justified by what we do, works. The work of salvation has already been done by Jesus Christ. This is why "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.

 

[musterion]

The religion of Christendom invariably sets a standard that tries to buy God off to avoid His wrath. It may give lip service to faith in what Christ did but is always about the self-effort...the "good" works...which God will allegedly approve and which negate faith.

The works of all Christendom are essentially worthless, self-righteous bribes offered to an inflexibly holy Judge.

 

[Robert Pate]

The religion of Christendom invariably sets a standard that tries to buy God off to avoid His wrath. It may give lip service to faith in what Christ did but is always about the self-effort...the "good" works...which God will allegedly approve and which negate faith.

The works of all Christendom are essentially worthless, self-righteous bribes offered to an inflexibly holy Judge.

I agree.

The Christian religion does not promote faith, instead they promote works. This is why you will not hear the Gospel preached in the organized church. It is all about works, works, works.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

 

[clefty]

I agree.

The Christian religion does not promote faith, instead they promote works. This is why you will not hear the Gospel preached in the organized church. It is all about works, works, works.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Hey, maybe if I shout:

WORKS ARE NOT DONE TO EARN OR MERIT SALVATION!

THEY ARE DONE BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY SAVED AND GRATEFULLY WISH TO FOLLOW HIM HIS WAY!

Oh and AS HE ASKED US TO DO!!!

There maybe now it will begin to sink in...

IF WE LOVE HIM

 

[clefty]

The religion of Christendom invariably sets a standard that tries to buy God off to avoid His wrath. It may give lip service to faith in what Christ did but is always about the self-effort...the "good" works...which God will allegedly approve and which negate faith.

The works of all Christendom are essentially worthless, self-righteous bribes offered to an inflexibly holy Judge.

Lol...wow really? that is what He asked for if we love Him?

Exactly what Israel whined about and followed "easier" gods...

Not surprising you support these idolators...

 

[Robert Pate]

Lol...wow really? that is what He asked for if we love Him?

Exactly what Israel whined about and followed "easier" gods...

Not surprising you support these idolators...

The Christian religion is in a state of apostasy. The Gospel that justifies the ungodly and reconciles us and the world unto God is not being preached. Instead of the Gospel the church is teaching that your Christian life is what saves you and not Christ.

 

[clefty]

The Christian religion is in a state of apostasy. The Gospel that justifies the ungodly and reconciles us and the world unto God is not being preached. Instead of the Gospel the church is teaching that your Christian life is what saves you and not Christ.

Perhaps but 500 years into a reformation we are closer to understanding...hopefully here on TOL closer still...

Works are voluntary merit nothing...but done out of gratitude and because we are bought...His...to do HIS WAY

 

[Nanja]

The Christian religion is in a state of apostasy. The Gospel that justifies the ungodly and reconciles us and the world unto God is not being preached. Instead of the Gospel the church is teaching that your Christian life is what saves you and not Christ.

The Gospel that Justifies the ungodly Rom. 4:5 and reconciles the World unto God Rom. 5:10 is the Gospel of God's Grace, given to all those chosen In Union with Christ, all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-5, before the World began.

2 Tim. 1:8-9
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

 

[Robert Pate]

The Gospel that Justifies the ungodly Rom. 4:5 and reconciles the World unto God Rom. 5:10 is the Gospel of God's Grace, given to all those chosen In Union with Christ, all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-5, before the World began.

2 Tim. 1:8-9
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

CALVINISM: The belief that God predestinates men, women and children to hell before they are born.

WARNING: You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him and his Son Jesus Christ with this false doctrine.

 

[Nick M]

Yes yes...living in faith means a lawless life...no rules.

It isn't what he said, it wasn't what he implied. You are carnal and in sin, your mind is on the performance of the flesh. Being free from the law is not lawless. It is being lawful. All of those that trust the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, including his raising from the dead are no longer under the law. All things are lawful for us. That isn't lawless. You implied people go out of their way to do wrong.

Pate isn't talking about right and wrong for salvation.

 

[clefty]

The Gospel that Justifies the ungodly Rom. 4:5 and reconciles the World unto God Rom. 5:10 is the Gospel of God's Grace, given to all those chosen In Union with Christ, all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-5, before the World began.

2 Tim. 1:8-9
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Umm...yes salvation is not of our works...done only in our lifetimes obviously...

Should be as obvious that His Son born again into flesh Christ Jesus was begotten of Him before the world began...that begetting was according to His own purpose and grace...NOT our salvation but the way to...His begetting His Son hath saved us...done before the world began