Is there a true church?

OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
As I have said many times before , there is only ONE CHURCH mentioned

in the Bible and it is the CHURCH OF GOD .

Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God,

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Ga 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
 
brewmama

brewmama

New member
jamie said:
Christ's doctrines are listed in Hebrews 6:1-2.

If you have any questions just ask. There are no brick & mortar assemblies that teach Christ's doctrines.
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Only the elementary doctrines are listed. There must be more therefore, to lead to perfection. That's what it says in black and white.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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glassjester said:
Does any Christian church have 100% true doctrine?
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Only one, that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., against which He declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18-19), which the apostles identified as "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and which from the end of the first century has commonly been known as "the Catholic Church*."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


__________
*"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." ~ Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
 
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glassjester said:
Does any Christian church have 100% true doctrine? Which denomination teaches the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
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Of course, one must understand the meaning of the word "church" as understood from Scripture, and not by Rome:

"In the sense of the faithful (the one people of God), the church is one, despite contrary evidences, but not in the sense of being visibly united. In the definitive and progressive sense, the church is holy, but not empirically perfect. The church is apostolic, not because it is directly led by the Apostles themselves, rather because the church is guided, whenever and wherever it qualifies as "the church," by the apostolic proclamation and patterns from Scripture."

...and so on, as more fully explained here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4580080#post4580080

AMR
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
BREWMAMA said,

The Orthodox Church

Crumixmaster said,


that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., against which He declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18-19), which the apostles identified as "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and which from the end of the first century has commonly been known as "the Catholic Church*."
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And I say

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,

because there is no truth in him.

The Catholic Church is ROMAN has Murdered and Tortured Real Christians and wants to be

Catholic, which means universal because Satan wants to Rule the Universe

through his Roman Church.

The Catholic Church is so TOTALLY PAGAN it is a wonder that the Devil is not shocked by

its PERVERSIONS and PAGAN HYPOCRACY.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
The true church has Christ as its head. I believe we are to live by the words in "red."

"…As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love" (Eph. 4:14-16).
 
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Cruciform said:
"...as understood from Scripture" as authentically interpreted Christ's one historic Church, as opposed to AMR's preferred recently-invented, man-made Protestant sect.

Post #8 above.
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From your referenced post <—which I have linked to—something you need to master as a common courtesy to the reader—I note you rely upon a quote from Ignatius  35 or 50 AD-98 to c.108 AD), as it is likely the earliest known use of the word "catholic" by the ECF.

For accuracy, the quote reads in English and the Greek as follows:

"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the congregation be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic church."
Src: J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8.2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), pp. 189 & 191.

Ὅπου ἂν φανῇ ὁ ἐπίσκοπος, ἐκεῖ τὸ πλῆθος ἔστω, ὥσπερ ὅπου ἂν ᾖ Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς, ἐκεῖ ἡ καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία.
Src: J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8.2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 190.

Footnote #109 on page 191 in the above work by Lightfoot and Harmer reads:

"The term catholic here occurs in Christian literature for the first time. In later use (by ca. A.D. 200) the word catholic became a technical term designating "the Catholic Church" as opposed to the heretical sects, but here the expression is used in the sense of "universal" or "general" (thus the adjective could be attached to words like "resurrection" or "salvation" as well as to "church"), or possibly "whole" (conveying the idea of organic unity or completeness); cf. Lightfoot, AF 2.2.310-12; Schoedel, Ignatius, 243-44."

In J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines (San Francisco: Harper, 1960), p. 190 we also read:
"As regards 'Catholic', its original meaning was 'universal' or 'general', and in this sense Justin can speak of 'the catholic resurrection'. As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations."

In other words, if a Romanist apologist is going to continue to leverage the ECF poorly, especially as relates to the common Romanist tactic of replacing "catholic" with "Catholic" without warrant, at least do the ECF the courtesy of allowing them to speak for themselves versus importing anachronisms into their words.

AA Hodge on “What is the Church?”
Spoiler

From Evangelical Theology pgs 174-177:

What is the Church? There is one thing certain about it: the Church has a great many attributes, but that which is absolutely essential is its absolute unity. There is no doubt if there be but one God, there is but one Church; if there be but one Christ, there is but one Church; if there be but one Holy Ghost, there is but one Church. This is absolutely settled—there is but one Church. We have heard about the visible and invisible Church, as if there were two churches. There cannot be two churches, one that is visible and another that is invisible. There is but one Church, and that Church is visible or invisible just according to the eye that is looking, just according to the point of view taken….

There have been two distinct conceptions of the Church: one is the theory that the Church consists of an organized society which God has constituted, that identity consists in its external form as well as in its spirit, and that its life depends upon the continuity of officers from generation to generation. This is held by a great many able men, men of intellect, and by many respectable, level-headed Christians as well.

I hold this to be simply impossible. The marks of the Church are catholicity, apostolicity, infallibility, and purity. Now, apply that to any corporation—to the Church in Jerusalem or to the Church in Antioch; to the Congregational Church, to the Presbyterian, or to the Prelatical Churches. I do not care as to the form; but there never did exist, and there does not now exist, any organized society upon the face of the earth of which these qualities could be predicated. Not one of these societies has apostolicity—that is, precisely the apostolic form as well as the apostolic spirit; not one of these societies has had an absolute organic continuity, or has, without modification, preserved it. Societies, like the Church of Rome, which are most conspicuous in claiming these marks for themselves, are most conspicuously unworthy of them, because there is no comparison between their ritual of service, their organization, and the apostolic Church with which they claim to be identified.

The only possible definition of a Church is that it consists of what is termed "the body of Christ"—that is, human souls regenerated by the presence and power of the Holy Ghost, kept in immediate union with Christ. Of this you can predicate apostostolicity, catholicity, and the sanctifying power and perpetual presence of the Holy Ghost, which belongs to the Church of Christ. This is the true Church, which exists through all the successive generations of men, which is united to Christ, and which shares in the benefits of his redemption through the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. This great body is one because the Holy Ghost dwells in it and makes it one. This Church is apostolical, because it is unchanging as to apostolic doctrine; it is catholic, because it contains in one body all of God's people in all worlds and in all time; it unites all from the creation of the world to the coming of Christ, and all from the coming of Christ to the end of the world in one body—absolutely one, both visible and invisible.…

Now, as to the unity of this Church I have something to say. A great many are agitated at present with regard to Church unity and its manifestations, and I think there is a great deal of confusion of thought as to the original conception of the Church itself. If the Church be an external society, then all deviation from that society is of the nature of schism; but if the Church be in its essence a great spiritual body, constituted by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost through all the ages and nations, uniting all to Christ, and if its external organization is only accidental and temporary, and subject to change and variation, then deviation of organization, unless touched by the spirit of schism, is not detrimental to the Church. I do believe that God's purpose, on the contrary, has been to differentiate his Church without end. You know that the very highest form of beauty of which you can conceive, the very highest form of order, is multiplicity in unity, and unity in multiplicity; the higher the order of unity, the greater must be the multiplicity.

This is so everywhere. Go to the ocean: every drop of water is the repetition of every other drop, and there is union simply without diversity. Go to the desert of Sahara, and every grain of sand is the duplicate of every other grain of sand; but there is no unity, no life.

You could not make a great cathedral by piling up simple identical rhomboids or cubes of stone. It is because you differentiate, and make every stone of a different form in order to perform a different function, and then build them up out of this multitudinous origination into the continuity and unity of the one plan or architectural idea, that you have your cathedral. You could not make a great piece of music simply by multiplying the same tone or sound. In order to obtain the harmony of a great orchestra, you get together a large number of musical instruments, or you have a great number of human voices in a choir, and you combine them; then you have an infinite variety of quality and infinite variety of tone. You combine them in the absolute unit of the one great musical idea which you seek to express.

But if this is true of such things, it is more true of Christ's Church. If God had followed our idea, how simple a thing it would have been to make a united Church descending from Adam and Eve! We might think that was all that could be done, and there would be then no stones of stumbling. You could then watch this Church, and it would go on indefinitely and without limit.

Now, what has God been doing? He has broken humanity up into infinite varieties. This has been his method. He has been driving it into every clime. He has been driving it into every age through the succession of centuries. He has been moulding human nature under every variety of influences through all time, until he has got men in every age, every tribe, every tongue, every nation, every colour, every fashion—in order to do what? Simply to build up a variety, to build up the rich, inexhaustible variety which constitutes the beauty in unity of this great infinite Church of the first-born, whose final dwelling-place is to be in heaven.


In other words, your declaration of victory by pointing to your post #8 has been shown to be in error as it is rooted in your usual serpentine tactics. Avoid buying into Rome's mythologies as relates to its own account of its history.

AMR
 
R

RBBI

New member
In mud up to their ears. I just have to ask....what is this "TULIP" some of you refer to? Peace
 
journey

journey

New member
There are truly saved people in many brick and mortar churches, and they all share belief in the Gospel of the Grace of God:

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The one True Church that they belong to is not made with human hands - rather it is a living organism called the Church which is the Body of Christ, and Christ Himself is the Head of this Church - His Church:

Romans 12:5 KJV So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Colossians 3:15-17 KJV And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
 
jamie

jamie

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glassjester said:
According to Scripture, did Christ found a visible, formally structured Church, or an invisible, disorganized Church?
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Peter taught that pastors and teachers should set an proper example for the flock of God, not for money but for service.

In the NT church of God there is no priest/laity structure, no "lords" over the flock.

Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly, nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. (1 Peter 5:2-3 NKJV)

And remember marriage is honorable among all... (Hebrews 13:4 NKJV)​

Organizations that don't adhere to these instructions are not of God.
 
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