Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[marke]

That depends on how one analyzes the propaganda. Some say there is no connection between covid vaccines and the deaths of those who died shortly after receiving the vaccine. There are others who say we should take the vaccine for everyone else's benefit if not for our own. There are others who say the government should shut down and/or restrict the movements of those who refuse to take the vaccine. But what are the facts?

I found this. People dying from unknown causes shortly after taking the vaccine while officials supporting the government narratives insist they see no apparent link between the vaccine and the resulting deaths.

Here are quotes:

What you need to know about severe reactions to COVID vaccines

A small number of vaccine recipients have had a serious, but treatable, allergic reaction, called anaphylaxis.

fortune.com

A few countries have reported deaths following administration of COVID-19 vaccines, but medical specialists have found no evidence of a connection to the inoculations.

Norwegian officials were the first to report people dying after being inoculated, saying in mid-January that 33 people age 75 and older had died a short time after receiving the COVID vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.

The U.K.’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency reported that as of Jan. 24, there were 143 deaths shortly after injections with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and another from AstraZeneca Plc, mainly in elderly people or those with underlying illness, and that there’s no suggestion the vaccines played a role.

And in the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that as of Feb. 7, there were 1,170 reported deaths among people who received either the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or another from Moderna Inc., a rate of 0.003%, and no evidence suggests a link.

 

[Gary K]

I posted a study here requested by the CDC back in 2012. It looked into how accurate the VAERS database is. The study found that less than 1% of all adverse vaccine events are reported to the VAERS database. Last time I looked at the VAERS numbers there were 3500+ deaths and more than 12000 severe adverse events. To figure out the approximate totals the VAERS numbers need to be multiplied by 100 as less than 1% of the events are in the database. That means there have been 350,000+ deaths and 1,200,000+ serious adverse events. So are a lot of people dying? Yup. Are there a lot of serious side effects happening? Yup.

If you look at the previous three years, just taking the numbers just as they are, 2020, 2019, and 2018 combined had fewer vaccine deaths than 2021 all by itself. And that's just in 5 months of 2021. So anyway you look at it vaccine deaths are way up.

 

[Gary K]

Here is my post with the link to the study.

Less than 1 percent of all adverse events

Less than 1% of all adverse effects caused by vaccines are reported to the VAERS database. This was reported by a study looking at just this type of information, and nothing has changed since. The excerpt I posted here is under the title Report. This is the final report from the 3 year study...

www.theologyonline.com

 

[chair]

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences to CDC and FDA. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem...

 

[Gary K]

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences to CDC and FDA. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem...

The problem is that's exactly how it is being used. Knowing how unreliable it is the government and health agencies still publicize it as the way to find out the adverse effects and deaths. It's all one big lie.

It's just as deceptive as the PCR test. A non-diagnostic test being used for diagnosis. I've pointed out a lot of data on that. The only thing a PCR test can find is a partial strand of dna. It cannot find a complete virus. It can find partial strands of a bunch of different dna strands that the Chinese said were in the virus. But, no one has ever identified a complete virus that is said to be the coronavirus. So all they can search for are incomplete strands of dna. Having one of those incomplete strands of dna in a person's system is not proof of the disease.

No, it's not designed to diagnose but you yourself have pointed to it as an argument that there aren't any problems with the vaccines. And when the numbers are multiplied by 100 it demonstrates that there are a lot of deaths and severe injuries associated with those who have taken this vaccine.

 

[marke]

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences to CDC and FDA. VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem...

Biased health officials who do not want the public believing there are serious risks to taking the covid vaccine all speak with the same mouth: "We have found no proof the vaccines caused the deaths." How comforting. But when we read between the lines we also understand "There is no proof the vaccines did not cause the deaths."

 

[chair]

Biased health officials who do not want the public believing there are serious risks to taking the covid vaccine all speak with the same mouth: "We have found no proof the vaccines caused the deaths." How comforting. But when we read between the lines we also understand "There is no proof the vaccines did not cause the deaths."

There is also no proof that bubble gum didn't cause the deaths.

 

[marke]

There is also no proof that bubble gum didn't cause the deaths.

Since there is no proof that bubble gum did not cause the deaths there are those who feel confident in saying the vaccines did not cause the thousands of deaths of those who died shortly after taking the vaccine as Hank Aaron did.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh my. This (and other) threads are a veritable clinic in bad reasoning. I cannot believe it needs to be pointed out that, of course, thousands, nay thousands upon thousands upon thousands, of people around the world will, yes, drop dead "shortly" after receiving a Covid vaccine.

How many blows to the head does one need before one would think that this correlation indicates causation?

Obviously, if the numbers of people who died, say, in a 90-day interval after getting their shot were higher than the the number of people who typically die in such a time interval, then there might be a case to be made for a connection.

 

[Clete]

That depends on how one analyzes the propaganda. Some say there is no connection between covid vaccines and the deaths of those who died shortly after receiving the vaccine. There are others who say we should take the vaccine for everyone else's benefit if not for our own. There are others who say the government should shut down and/or restrict the movements of those who refuse to take the vaccine. But what are the facts?

I found this. People dying from unknown causes shortly after taking the vaccine while officials supporting the government narratives insist they see no apparent link between the vaccine and the resulting deaths.

Here are quotes:

What you need to know about severe reactions to COVID vaccines

A small number of vaccine recipients have had a serious, but treatable, allergic reaction, called anaphylaxis.

fortune.com

A few countries have reported deaths following administration of COVID-19 vaccines, but medical specialists have found no evidence of a connection to the inoculations.

Norwegian officials were the first to report people dying after being inoculated, saying in mid-January that 33 people age 75 and older had died a short time after receiving the COVID vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.

The U.K.’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency reported that as of Jan. 24, there were 143 deaths shortly after injections with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and another from AstraZeneca Plc, mainly in elderly people or those with underlying illness, and that there’s no suggestion the vaccines played a role.

And in the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that as of Feb. 7, there were 1,170 reported deaths among people who received either the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or another from Moderna Inc., a rate of 0.003%, and no evidence suggests a link.

I don't think hardly anyone has a good understanding of just how small a number .00003 is.

And yes, I typed that number correctly. I simply converted the percentage into a real number. .003% is the same as 3 100,000ths or 0.00003.
So, for every 33,333.33 people who got the shot, 1 person died shortly thereafter. That is, without any doubt whatsoever, a statistically insignificant amount! When you consider such a tiny number of deaths along with the fact that most of those who died were already past the average life expectancy there is no rational reason to tie any of the deaths to the vaccine.

Clete

 

[marke]

Oh my. This (and other) threads are a veritable clinic in bad reasoning. I cannot believe it needs to be pointed out that, of course, thousands, nay thousands upon thousands upon thousands, of people around the world will, yes, drop dead "shortly" after receiving a Covid vaccine.

How many blows to the head does one need before one would think that this correlation indicates causation?

Obviously, if the numbers of people who died, say, in a 90-day interval after getting their shot were higher than the the number of people who typically die in such a time interval, then there might be a case to be made for a connection.

When thousands die from complications from the covid vaccine, why do biased supporters of the erroneous democrat narratives still insist there is no connection between their deaths and the covid vaccine? What would be better reasoning would be for the leftists to have admitted that people who died from other issues like gunshot wounds did not die from covid as was reported by health officials far too many times.

 

[marke]

I don't think hardly anyone has a good understanding of just how small a number .00003 is.

And yes, I typed that number correctly. I simply converted the percentage into a real number. .003% is the same as 3 100,000ths or 0.00003.
So, for every 33,333.33 people who got the shot, 1 person died shortly thereafter. That is, without any doubt whatsoever, a statistically insignificant amount! When you consider such a tiny number of deaths along with the fact that most of those who died were already past the average life expectancy there is no rational reason to tie any of the deaths to the vaccine.

Clete

I don't believe Americans should be forced to get the shot at all, especially if there remains a small risk they may die from it. Do AIDS victims need to be forced to submit to register on national AIDS databases for the safety of others? There is a point at which government obligations for safety overstep Americans' right to freedom and privacy.

I don't need the vaccine and don't intend to take it. I got covid and got over it. I am more confident that I have as much or more immunity from the disease because of having been infected already than I could get from an unproven vaccine. Besides, increased vaccinations, shutdowns, and mask-wearing has not slowed the spread of the virus in some places, giving me no confidence at all that those measures are working like people think they should.

 

[Clete]

I don't believe Americans should be forced to get the shot at all, especially if there remains a small risk they may die from it.

There is no such risk but I don't think they should be forced to get the shot either. At least not by the government. Has anyone seriously proposed such a policy?

Do AIDS victims need to be forced to submit to register on national AIDS databases for the safety of others?

Anyone who knowingly spreads a disease is guilty of a crime and upon conviction of that crime should be made to pay eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, life for life.

No such criminal act is possible in the case of a disease that spreads the way COVID and other upper respiratory diseases spread. In so far as the intent of the spreader is concerned, the spread is effectively accidental and thus there is no crime.

That does not mean, however, that the government does not have a legitimate role to play in the area of public safety.

There is a point at which government obligations for safety overstep Americans' right to freedom and privacy.

I agree. Any measures the government takes in the control of disease must be reasonable and temporary.

I don't need the vaccine and don't intend to take it. I got covid and got over it.

You can get it again and with so much false case reporting, there's no good way for many people to confirm that it was COVID that they actually got. There are a few unusual symptoms of COVID that can let one be reasonable certain that it was in fact COVID but in more mild cases, people may have had the regular flu and were simply told they had COVID for a host of reasons.

There is a reason why there have been almost no flu cases reported this past year and it isn't because people wore masks.

The point being that the vaccine has less to do with you as it does stopping the virus' ability to spread. It cannot spread if it has nowhere to live and as such, one person getting the vaccine could prevent a great many cases of the disease. This is why the COVID numbers drop so quickly once the vaccine came out. We didn't have to wait until the whole population was immune to see a significant benefit across the whole population.

As for you not getting the shot, do what you like but don't pretend like your actions (or lack thereof) have no consequences. Depending on how long ago it was when you had it, it is possible for you to get COVID again and spread to others. Act accordingly.

I am more confident that I have as much or more immunity from the disease because of having been infected already than I could get from an unproven vaccine.

It is no longer an unproven vaccine. There were several scientifically valid tests done before the released it and there have been several more done since. It turns out that less than one percent of people who are vaccinated acquire the disease (i.e. become symptomatic) after being intentionally exposed to the actual virus. In other words, in the real world, the vaccine is more than 99% effective.

Besides, increased vaccinations, shutdowns, and mask-wearing has not slowed the spread of the virus in some places, giving me no confidence at all that those measures are working like people think they should.

The shutdowns, masks and social distancing did not, do not and cannot possibly work against the spread of any disease that spreads the way COVID spreads. If we were about following the science we'd have stopped all of that a year ago. But that is very simply not the case with these vaccines. They not only work but have been proven quite safe. The published scientific studies prove it and since you know of no one, nor do you know anyone who knows of someone who has had anything close to a deadly reaction to the vaccine, your own experience proves it.

Clete

 

[marke]

There is no such risk but I don't think they should be forced to get the shot either. At least not by the government. Has anyone seriously proposed such a policy?

0.00% risk is no risk. Small risks don't qualify as no risks.

Anyone who knowingly spreads a disease is guilty of a crime and upon conviction of that crime should be made to pay eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, life for life.

Anyone calling people murderers who do not wear masks or do not destroy their lives and businesses in the name of group-think hysteria is a moron.

No such criminal act is possible in the case of a disease that spreads the way COVID and other upper respiratory diseases spread. In so far as the intent of the spreader is concerned, the spread is effectively accidental and thus there is no crime.

That does not mean, however, that the government does not have a legitimate role to play in the area of public safety.

The government cannot stop deaths by alcohol. They tried prohibition but that did not work. The government cannot stop deaths by AIDS. They did not even try to isolate or identify the carriers of the disease. The government cannot stop deaths by gunshot without destroying the whole nation by giving it over to thugs with guns who do not obey American laws. And the government is stupid for destroying the economy under the delusion that such stupid measures will stop people from dying from covid.

I agree. Any measures the government takes in the control of disease must be reasonable and temporary.

You can get it again and with so much false case reporting, there's no good way for many people to confirm that it was COVID that they actually got. There are a few unusual symptoms of COVID that can let one be reasonable certain that it was in fact COVID but in more mild cases, people may have had the regular flu and were simply told they had COVID for a host of reasons.

We don't know how effective the unproven vaccines are, and we don't know for how long covid patients will be immune from reinfection, if forever. So why live in fear every day? Why shut the economy down indefinitely and force everyone to wear masks forever when it has clearly been shown that such tactics have not slowed covid infections?

There is a reason why there have been almost no flu cases reported this past year and it isn't because people wore masks.

There have been so few flu cases this year because of the government-encouraged habit of classifying everyone with flu symptoms as covid patients.

The point being that the vaccine has less to do with you as it does stopping the virus' ability to spread. It cannot spread if it has nowhere to live and as such, one person getting the vaccine could prevent a great many cases of the disease. This is why the COVID numbers drop so quickly once the vaccine came out. We didn't have to wait until the whole population was immune to see a significant benefit across the whole population.

Like placebos, the covid vaccine likely had little to do with falling covid cases since the vaccine came out at a time when covid cases were already declining. But fearful alarmists want to believe the miracle is in the drug and you cannot tell them otherwise.

As for you not getting the shot, do what you like but don't pretend like your actions (or lack thereof) have no consequences. Depending on how long ago it was when you had it, it is possible for you to get COVID again and spread to others. Act accordingly.

Act accordingly? How? By assuming I might still get sick again and should wear three to five masks all the time for years to come just in case something bad might happen to me or others if I don't? I have a better idea. I will act normally as always and encourage fearful alarmists to stop worrying so much about what bad thing might happen to them if others do not live exactly as they want them to.

It is no longer an unproven vaccine. There were several scientifically valid tests done before the released it and there have been several more done since. It turns out that less than one percent of people who are vaccinated acquire the disease (i.e. become symptomatic) after being intentionally exposed to the actual virus. In other words, in the real world, the vaccine is more than 99% effective.

And yet the FDA has still not approved the drug and clinical trials are still in their infancy.

The shutdowns, masks and social distancing did not, do not and cannot possibly work against the spread of any disease that spreads the way COVID spreads. If we were about following the science we'd have stopped all of that a year ago. But that is very simply not the case with these vaccines. They not only work but have been proven quite safe. The published scientific studies prove it and since you know of no one, nor do you know anyone who knows of someone who has had anything close to a deadly reaction to the vaccine, your own experience proves it.

Clete

I don't share your faith in the unknown and unproven effectiveness of a very new drug touted as a miracle cure for anyone wanting to believe such a thing.

 

[Clete]

0.00% risk is no risk. Small risks don't qualify as no risks.

Anyone calling people murderers who do not wear masks or do not destroy their lives and businesses in the name of group-think hysteria is a moron.



The government cannot stop deaths by alcohol. They tried prohibition but that did not work. The government cannot stop deaths by AIDS. They did not even try to isolate or identify the carriers of the disease. The government cannot stop deaths by gunshot without destroying the whole nation by giving it over to thugs with guns who do not obey American laws. And the government is stupid for destroying the economy under the delusion that such stupid measures will stop people from dying from covid.

We don't know how effective the unproven vaccines are, and we don't know for how long covid patients will be immune from reinfection, if forever. So why live in fear every day? Why shut the economy down indefinitely and force everyone to wear masks forever when it has clearly been shown that such tactics have not slowed covid infections?

There have been so few flu cases this year because of the government-encouraged habit of classifying everyone with flu symptoms as covid patients.

Like placebos, the covid vaccine likely had little to do with falling covid cases since the vaccine came out at a time when covid cases were already declining. But fearful alarmists want to believe the miracle is in the drug and you cannot tell them otherwise.

Act accordingly? How? By assuming I might still get sick again and should wear three to five masks all the time for years to come just in case something bad might happen to me or others if I don't? I have a better idea. I will act normally as always and encourage fearful alarmists to stop worrying so much about what bad thing might happen to them if others do not live exactly as they want them to.

And yet the FDA has still not approved the drug and clinical trials are still in their infancy.

I don't share your faith in the unknown and unproven effectiveness of a very new drug touted as a miracle cure for anyone wanting to believe such a thing.

You're basically in denial.

Repeating your position is not a rebuttal but then you aren't interested in being convinced anyway so believe what you want.

 

[marke]

You're basically in denial.

Repeating your position is not a rebuttal but then you aren't interested in being convinced anyway so believe what you want.

Maybe I am right or maybe I am wrong. At least I am free and happy to trust God to protect me from lies, ignorance, and corruption.

 

[Clete]

Maybe I am right or maybe I am wrong. At least I am free and happy to trust God to protect me from lies, ignorance, and corruption.

There isn't any maybe about it. The science exists, easy to find and just as clear as the nose on your face. You want to believe in conspiracy theories and fear mongering and all the science in the world couldn't change your mind.

 

[marke]

There isn't any maybe about it. The science exists, easy to find and just as clear as the nose on your face. You want to believe in conspiracy theories and fear mongering and all the science in the world couldn't change your mind.

When scientists tell you the earth is 4 billion years old, they lie, but that does not mean they know they are lying. Many are simply repeating what other liars taught them in school and the dummies believed the nonsense because they did not know to question their assumptions, speculations, theories, and assertions. People with flawed judgments think a scientist must be irrefutable if he works for such-a-such organization or has -such-a-such degree. That is wrong.

 

[Clete]

When scientists tell you the earth is 4 billion years old, they lie, but that does not mean they know they are lying. Many are simply repeating what other liars taught them in school and the dummies believed the nonsense because they did not know to question their assumptions, speculations, theories, and assertions. People with flawed judgments think a scientist must be irrefutable if he works for such-a-such organization or has -such-a-such degree. That is wrong.

More proof that you're grasping at straws trying your best to cling to an irrational fear of a vaccine that is definitely safe and effective. We Christian doubt geological claims of billions of years because there is reason to doubt it not because were convinced someone is lying for no rational reason.

Being wary about the vaccine when it first came out would have been more understandable but even then it would have been to ignore the science behind it. Now, after hundreds of millions of doses having been administered with one three hundredth of one percent of people having died shortly after getting the shot, being afraid of this vaccine has nothing whatsoever to do with science and it is the opposite of rational. You're simply a conspiracy theorist. No better or worse than your average flat earther.

Clete

 

[marke]

More proof that you're grasping at straws trying your best to cling to an irrational fear of a vaccine that is definitely safe and effective. We Christian doubt geological claims of billions of years because there is reason to doubt it not because were convinced someone is lying for no rational reason.

Being wary about the vaccine when it first came out would have been more understandable but even then it would have been to ignore the science behind it. Now, after hundreds of millions of doses having been administered with one three hundredth of one percent of people having died shortly after getting the shot, being afraid of this vaccine has nothing whatsoever to do with science and it is the opposite of rational. You're simply a conspiracy theorist. No better or worse than your average flat earther.

Clete

Science has not proven the vaccine safe or effective. Vaccine salesmen and their cheerleaders just say that. Not only do rational people and medical professionals have serious reservations about different vaccines, but also those in the general public who support vaccines and have been vaccinated still, by an overwhelming majority, wear masks because of fears of catching covid or giving covid. What kind of sense does that make? It just means that the majority of those who support vaccines do not trust the vaccine's effectiveness against covid.