Is there a defference between an eye for an eye and do to others what ou want done to

[CabinetMaker]

Is there a difference between the Old Covenant “eye for an eye” and the New Covenant “do to others what you want done to you”?


There is this passage from Leviticus

Leviticus 24:19-21New International Version (NIV) 19 Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury. 21 Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a human being is to be put to death.

Versus this passage from Luke

Luke 6:27-31New International Version (NIV) Love for Enemies 27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

I say the two are mutually exclusive propositions. Eye for an eye is about punishment and retribution. If somebody hurts you, you hurt them back exactly the same way. It is very satisfying to our human nature and the exact opposite to what Jesus taught.


What Jesus taught is the exact opposite. If somebody hurts you, Jesus says you are to turn the other cheek. In short, if you don’t like getting hurt, don’t others even when they hurt you first. That is a very different and much higher standard than an eye for an eye.

 

[oatmeal]

The eye for an eye works for those who complain about life not being fair. A coworker of mine states, "if life was fair, we would all be dead" I do not know if this is exactly correct, but a great point is made

Doing unto others is learning to love people with God's love.

God's love is not fair, see Romans 5 for one example of this

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

If God's love was fair, He would not have commended his love to us while we were yet sinners

 

[oatmeal]

The eye for an eye works for those who complain about life not being fair. A coworker of mine states, "if life was fair, we would all be dead" I do not know if this is exactly correct, but a great point is made

Doing unto others is learning to love people with God's love.

God's love is not fair, see Romans 5 for one example of this

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

If God's love was fair, He would not have commended his love to us while we were yet sinners

Likewise with God's grace, grace being God's favor toward those who do not merit it.

Likewise with God's mercy, which is the withholding of consequences from those who merit them

God is just, but His love is the greatest thing

 

[OCTOBER23]

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:

and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[daqq]

Is there a difference between the Old Covenant “eye for an eye” and the New Covenant “do to others what you want done to you”?


There is this passage from Leviticus

Leviticus 24:19-21New International Version (NIV) 19 Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury. 21 Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a human being is to be put to death.

Versus this passage from Luke

Luke 6:27-31New International Version (NIV) Love for Enemies 27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

I say the two are mutually exclusive propositions. Eye for an eye is about punishment and retribution. If somebody hurts you, you hurt them back exactly the same way. It is very satisfying to our human nature and the exact opposite to what Jesus taught.


What Jesus taught is the exact opposite. If somebody hurts you, Jesus says you are to turn the other cheek. In short, if you don’t like getting hurt, don’t others even when they hurt you first. That is a very different and much higher standard than an eye for an eye.

Matthew makes direct reference to the Torah by quoting a portion. However the passage states, "You have heard that IT HAS BEEN SAID", and this clearly means that Yeshua speaks of what was being taught by the rulers and teachers of the people concerning those passages:

Matthew 5:39 KJV
38. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Yeshua is not saying he is changing or dissolving the statutes concerning this statement but rather that the rulers, teachers, and leaders of the people had misinterpreted the meaning. The Torah is Spirit, supernal, and spiritual. An "eye for an eye" is not done away or dissolved but rather to be understood as concerning spiritual matters. When it comes to the physical, for example other literal physical people such as family members and neighbors, we are to turn the other cheek. But when it comes to the enemy, (we wrestle not against flesh and blood) we are to show them no mercy: soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (see Exodus 21:23-24 where nephesh-soul is employed). If your right eye offends you, pluck him out, and cast him from you; if your right hand offends you, cut it off, and cast it from you; if your foot is always running swiftly into mischief, cut it off, and cast it from you. These are likened to "evil shepherds" that rise up in your land and take over your own "members" of your "household" so as to use them for evil things, (it is an allegory and every man has his Land). Show them no mercy, "Mortify your members which are upon the land", put them to death or they will surely rise up to slay you in "the end".

 

[OCTOBER23]

70 X 7

REFERRING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Gen 4:24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold

Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee,

Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[Nick M]

One is about eternal life for the circumcision. The other is about crime and justice.

 

[jamie]

I say the two are mutually exclusive propositions. Eye for an eye is about punishment and retribution.

Eye for an eye is about proportional punishment and retribution.

If a matter arises which is too hard for you to judge between degrees of guilt for bloodshed, between one judgment or another, or between one punishment or another, matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the LORD your God chooses.

And you shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge there in those days and inquire of them; they shall pronounce upon you the sentence of judgment.

You shall do according to the sentence which they pronounce upon you in that place which the LORD chooses. And you shall be careful to do according to all that they order you.

According to the sentence of the law in which they instruct you, according to the judgment which they tell you, you shall do; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left from the sentence which they pronounce upon you. (Deuteronomy 17:8-11 NKJV)​

 

[CabinetMaker]

Matthew makes direct reference to the Torah by quoting a portion. However the passage states, "You have heard that IT HAS BEEN SAID", and this clearly means that Yeshua speaks of what was being taught by the rulers and teachers of the people concerning those passages:

Matthew 5:39 KJV
38. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Yeshua is not saying he is changing or dissolving the statutes concerning this statement but rather that the rulers, teachers, and leaders of the people had misinterpreted the meaning. The Torah is Spirit, supernal, and spiritual. An "eye for an eye" is not done away or dissolved but rather to be understood as concerning spiritual matters. When it comes to the physical, for example other literal physical people such as family members and neighbors, we are to turn the other cheek. But when it comes to the enemy, (we wrestle not against flesh and blood) we are to show them no mercy: soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (see Exodus 21:23-24 where nephesh-soul is employed). If your right eye offends you, pluck him out, and cast him from you; if your right hand offends you, cut it off, and cast it from you; if your foot is always running swiftly into mischief, cut it off, and cast it from you. These are likened to "evil shepherds" that rise up in your land and take over your own "members" of your "household" so as to use them for evil things, (it is an allegory and every man has his Land). Show them no mercy, "Mortify your members which are upon the land", put them to death or they will surely rise up to slay you in "the end".

Read a bit further and see what Jesus says about loving your enemy.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Eye for an eye is about proportional punishment and retribution.

If a matter arises which is too hard for you to judge between degrees of guilt for bloodshed, between one judgment or another, or between one punishment or another, matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the LORD your God chooses.

And you shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge there in those days and inquire of them; they shall pronounce upon you the sentence of judgment.

You shall do according to the sentence which they pronounce upon you in that place which the LORD chooses. And you shall be careful to do according to all that they order you.

According to the sentence of the law in which they instruct you, according to the judgment which they tell you, you shall do; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left from the sentence which they pronounce upon you. (Deuteronomy 17:8-11 NKJV)​

Do you live under the Old Covenant or the New?

 

[daqq]

Read a bit further and see what Jesus says about loving your enemy.

Which shows that he speaks of the physical, (other human beings) and establishes my point. Otherwise you are implying that Yeshua teaches us to love the wicked one, the devil, and the satan, which are the enemy that I spoke of in my previous post: rightly divide.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Which shows that he speaks of the physical, (other human beings) and establishes my point. Otherwise you are implying that Yeshua teaches us to love the wicked one, the devil, and the satan, which are the enemy that I spoke of in my previous post: rightly divide.

No, that's you going down a different road than this thread intended. An eye for and eye, do unto others, and love your enemy all deal with how we treat each other. That is what this thread is limited to, how we treat each other.

 

[daqq]

No, that's you going down a different road than this thread intended. An eye for and eye, do unto others, and love your enemy all deal with how we treat each other. That is what this thread is limited to, how we treat each other.

My comments have everything to do with the topic and question of this thread. Your thread question assumes that Yeshua overturned the Torah:

"Is there a defference between an eye for an eye and do to others what you want done to you?"

With the passages you have referenced you show that your mindset appears to have already assumed that Yeshua overturned the Torah despite the fact that right there in the companion passage from Matthew 5:17-19 Yeshua says exactly the opposite of what you appear to assume:

Matthew 5:17-19 RSV
17. "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Just because I have shown you the difference between loving your neighbor and cutting off your spiritual enemy, (sin) does not mean I have gone down a different road than the thread question has implied. Is it my fault your thread title and question assumes a principle that is erroneous?

Oh well, enjoy the bliss of your error and have a nice erroneous thread. :crackup:

 

[CabinetMaker]

My comments have everything to do with the topic and question of this thread. Your thread question assumes that Yeshua overturned the Torah:

"Is there a defference between an eye for an eye and do to others what you want done to you?"

With the passages you have referenced you show that your mindset appears to have already assumed that Yeshua overturned the Torah despite the fact that right there in the companion passage from Matthew 5:17-19 Yeshua says exactly the opposite of what you appear to assume:

Matthew 5:17-19 RSV
17. "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Just because I have shown you the difference between loving your neighbor and cutting off your spiritual enemy, (sin) does not mean I have gone down a different road than the thread question has implied. Is it my fault your thread title and question assumes a principle that is erroneous?

Oh well, enjoy the bliss of your error and have a nice erroneous thread. :crackup:

Christ died to establish the New Covenant, what happened to the Old Covenant?

 

[daqq]

Christ died to establish the New Covenant, what happened to the Old Covenant?

Everyone likely knows what "difference" means or implies but you wrote "defference", (with two "f"'s) which might mean "deference" or might mean "difference", (neither of which you spelled correctly).

Defer : postpone : suspend
Deference : respect : as in "to respect" one statute over another.

If you mean "difference" I have shown you the difference between the two statutes. If you mean "deference" I have shown you why you are incorrect. The one statue does not "override" the other because they do not apply to the same things. The new covenant is the old having been finally interpreted correctly as understood through the Testimony of Yeshua:

Matthew 13:51-52
51. Yeshua says unto them, Have you understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Master.
52. Then he syas unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed-discipled into the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his thesauros-treasure things new and old.

And the wines are the covenants:

Luke 5:37-39
37. And no man puts neos-new wine into old wine skins: else the neos-new wine will burst the skins and itself will be spilled, and the skins will perish.
38. But neos-new wine must be put into kainos-fresh wine skins.
39. And no man having drunk old wine desires neos-new, for he says, The old is chrestos!

 

[jamie]

Do you live under the Old Covenant or the New?

It's the same covenant, the covenant that was placed in the ark of the covenant.

 

[CabinetMaker]

It's the same covenant, the covenant that was placed in the ark of the covenant.

If they are the same, why did Jesus need to die to form the new covenant? Who did God form the Old Covenant with? Who did God create the New Covenant for?

 

[quip]

Differing intention....differing Karmic denouement.

 

[jamie]

If they are the same, why did Jesus need to die to form the new covenant? Who did God form the Old Covenant with? Who did God create the New Covenant for?

Christ died for sin, which is the reason he became mortal.

The Jew's leaders rejected the kingdom of God so it was necessary to install a better priesthood, an eternal priesthood.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Try believing the words of Jesus.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Jesus didn't draw that distinction at all.

Your theology is as bankrupt as your personality.

One is about eternal life for the circumcision. The other is about crime and justice.