Is Preterism Christianity?

[Clete]

Is Preterism Christianity?

Of course all Preterists would defend their doctrine as being fully consistent with the bible and therefore the Christian faith but since there seems to be more preterists around lately I thought I'd ask the question in a more detailed way and see what sort of responses I get. I honestly don't know what to expect...

If you are a preterist, please affirm (or deny) the following five points which are pretty much universally understood as fundamental to the Christian faith...

1. The divine inspiration and inerrancy of the bible.
2. The deity of Jesus Christ.
3. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Jesus Christ to the earth.​

It's the fifth point in particular that seems like it might make a preterist itchy. But, like I said, I really don't know what to expect here so regardless of your response, please give as much detail as possible. Thanks!

For the sake of clarity, I should point out that I personally believe that all five of these points are absolutely true but I do not believe that these are the only five things one must believe in order to be saved or even a genuine Christian. Nearly all Calvinists, for example, would affirm all five of these points but their distinctive doctrines (i.e. the doctrines that make them Calvinists) are incompatible with faith in the loving Creator depicted in the bible and worshiped by those who are saved by that same Love. So while all true Christians affirm all five points list above, those five points do not define what it means to be a Christian.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[George Affleck]

1. The divine inspiration and inerrancy of the bible.
2. The deity of Jesus Christ.
3. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Jesus Christ to the earth.​

I agree with the above, except for the following:

#1. - The Bible is/was not inspired. It was inerrantly produced by the process of inspiration. It is the authors who were inspired. The Bible is not breathed into; it was 'breathed out' by God by the Holy Spirit 'breathing in' to godly men the words of God.

#5. - Physical resurrection and personal bodily return but He will not come down to earth. Those who are alive at the time will rise to meet Him in the air. There being no further use for the physical universe, subsequently the elements will dissolve with fervent heat.

I should add that I disagree that preterism is on the rise; although it may seem so to some.

Also, I am an amillenial/partial preterist. I believe that Christ has already conquered the world, put an end to sin, and that all the law and the prophets find their fulfillment in His finished work. There is nothing left undone except for the Father's long-suffering to come to an end. Jesus has the keys of hell and death. I also affirm that, as happened many times in history, the second person was present in judgement (only) at the ceremonial end of the sacrificial system. The blood of bulls and goats were only ever a way to teach the plan of redemption. His blood was the only to be spilled that God will ever respect eternally.

I would rather ascribe complete victory to Christ and find out I am wrong than follow any of the myriad of cleverly devised superstitions of men.

 

[Clete]

I agree with the above, except for the following:

#1. - The Bible is/was not inspired. It was inerrantly produced by the process of inspiration. It is the authors who were inspired. The Bible is not breathed into; it was 'breathed out' by God by the Holy Spirit 'breathing in' to godly men the words of God.

Double talk.

#5. - Physical resurrection and personal bodily return but He will not come down to earth. Those who are alive at the time will rise to meet Him in the air. There being no further use for the physical universe, subsequently the elements will dissolve with fervent heat.

You are not a Christian.

Why bother caring if the bible was inspired if you get to cherry pick which plainly obvious things it teaches you're going to believe and which you're going to discard.

Rejecting doctrines that are less clear would be one thing but you don't get to claim to be a Christian and disagree with it's FUNDAMENTAL teachings.

I should add that I disagree that preterism is on the rise; although it may seem so to some.

I only meant that discussions of it around TOL are on the rise, not its popularity in the general population.

Also, I am an amillenial/partial preterist. I believe that Christ has already conquered the world, put an end to sin, and that all the law and the prophets find their fulfillment in His finished work. There is nothing left undone except for the Father's long-suffering to come to an end.

So you're not a preterist but believe the only thing necessary to make yourself a preterist. You're a little confused, I think.

Jesus has the keys of hell and death. I also affirm that, as happened many times in history, the second person was present in judgement (only) at the ceremonial end of the sacrificial system. The blood of bulls and goats were only ever a way to teach the plan of redemption. His blood was the only to be spilled that God will ever respect eternally.

I would rather ascribe complete victory to Christ and find out I am wrong than follow any of the myriad of cleverly devised superstitions of men.

Well, believe whatever the heck you want! If the bible isn't inspired and you get to pick and choose doctrines, then by all means, pick and choose! Just don't muddy the water by telling everyone that you're a Christian.


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Nick M]

Is Preterism Christianity?


Resting in Him,
Clete

No.

 

[George Affleck]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

[musterion]

Affie sounds like one of those "It isn't the Word of God, it only contains the Word of God" types.

 

[George Affleck]

Affie sounds like one of those "It isn't the Word of God, it only contains the Word of God" types.

That's because you can't read with cognition

 

[tetelestai]

5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Jesus Christ to the earth.[/INDENT]

We've been through this before.

You mixed two completely different things in #5

Preterism affirms a physical resurrection.

Preterism denies a personal bodily return of Jesus Christ to planet earth.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say there is a personal bodily return of Christ Jesus returns to planet earth.

 

[tetelestai]

the following five points which are pretty much universally understood as fundamental to the Christian faith...

​

What a joke.

It's pretty much universally understood in the Christian faith that the church began on the Day of Pentecost, not somewhere in Mid-Acts.

Does that mean you MADists aren't saved?​

 

[iamaberean]

Is Preterism Christianity?

Of course all Preterists would defend their doctrine as being fully consistent with the bible and therefore the Christian faith but since there seems to be more preterists around lately I thought I'd ask the question in a more detailed way and see what sort of responses I get. I honestly don't know what to expect...

5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Jesus Christ to the earth.[/INDENT]

It's the fifth point in particular that seems like it might make a preterist itchy. But, like I said, I really don't know what to expect here so regardless of your response, please give as much detail as possible. Thanks!

So while all true Christians affirm all five points list above, those five points do not define what it means to be a Christian.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Clete,

I consider myself to be a Christian that believes all prophecy has been fulfilled.

You seem to believe that one must be in the majority to be a true Christian. I don't think so, Christians are like people, some are babies that are walking by faith, trying to learn about God. As they grow they must start reading God's word for themselves for there are wolves in sheep clothing that will turn them to error when possible.

Number 5 on your list is not biblical. If I am wrong, show me by scripture where Jesus would need to return to earth again. I think Jesus said "It is finished".

 

[Clete]

Clete,

I consider myself to be a Christian that believes all prophecy has been fulfilled.

Considering yourself to be a African Elephant doesn't make your ears grow bigger or give you a long nose.

You seem to believe that one must be in the majority to be a true Christian.

I "believe" (i.e. I know) that you have to believe Christian doctrine to be a Christian. You just don't get to believe anything you want and still be a Christian. Words mean things! You can ignore the meaning of the word 'Christian' if you like but it doesn't change the facts of reality.

I don't think so, Christians are like people, some are babies that are walking by faith, trying to learn about God. As they grow they must start reading God's word for themselves for there are wolves in sheep clothing that will turn them to error when possible.

It is NOT posssible to become a Preterist by merely reading the Bible.

That is NOT my opinion.

Number 5 on your list is not biblical. If I am wrong, show me by scripture where Jesus would need to return to earth again. I think Jesus said "It is finished".

I will do so but your "It is finished" quote shows that your use of scripture is so far out of whack that it'll be a waste of time.

I have no time this morning. I have to go to work. I'll post something for you on this as soon as I have the time (won't be long, I promise).

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[patrick jane]

Stay tuned - Coming Soon: Clete destroys preterism

 

[patrick jane]

2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV -

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What a joke.

It's pretty much universally understood in the Christian faith that the church began on the Day of Pentecost, not somewhere in Mid-Acts.

Does that mean you MADists aren't saved?

You're a very ignorant fellow, did you know that?

 

[iamaberean]

Considering yourself to be a African Elephant doesn't make your ears grow bigger or give you a long nose.

It is NOT posssible to become a Preterist by merely reading the Bible.

That is NOT my opinion.
Clete

That must be a blind man's opinion because through comparing scriptures is exactly how I came to grasp with it.

My son, fifteen years ago, ask me for my opinion on preterism. I had never heard of it but I told him to get me some info so I could study it. He could only tell me it was on the internet. Well I ignored it for a couple of months, but he asked again. This time I asked God to give me knowledge to answer my son. Also told him I would accept what ever position he showed me. Then I started searching the internet.

The first web site was one of a popular Apostolic I had heard of. Couldn't make any since out of his logic. The next was a Pastor of another Apostolic church. He was new to the belief and felt it was right, but he had no info available. Then I found an x-pastor of another denominational church that he had been kicked out of because of his belief in preterism. He has lots of material on preterism and scripture to back up all he taught. There was so much that it took me another 3 months before I was able to tell my son that I had read enough to know that preterism was probably correct. After six more months of study there was no more doubt about it.

What impressed me the most is that he charges nothing for the knowledge God gave him. Too many prophecy teachers are only interested in how much money they can make from it.

May God bless Bro David Curtis abundantly.

Want to learn more?
http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/home.php

 

[musterion]

Preterism does not exist without appeals to extrabiblical writings which determine how prophecy is understood. The very name preterism tells you that.

 

[iamaberean]

That must be a blind man's opinion because through comparing scriptures is exactly how I came to grasp with it.

My son, fifteen years ago, ask me for my opinion on preterism. I had never heard of it but I told him to get me some info so I could study it. He could only tell me it was on the internet. Well I ignored it for a couple of months, but he asked again. This time I asked God to give me knowledge to answer my son. Also told him I would accept what ever position he showed me. Then I started searching the internet.

The first web site was one of a popular Apostolic I had heard of. Couldn't make any since out of his logic. The next was a Pastor of another Apostolic church. He was new to the belief and felt it was right, but he had no info available. Then I found an x-pastor of another denominational church that he had been kicked out of because of his belief in preterism. He has lots of material on preterism and scripture to back up all he taught. There was so much that it took me another 3 months before I was able to tell my son that I had read enough to know that preterism was probably correct. After six more months of study there was no more doubt about it.

What impressed me the most is that he charges nothing for the knowledge God gave him. Too many prophecy teachers are only interested in how much money they can make from it.

May God bless Bro David Curtis abundantly.

Want to learn more?
http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/home.php

Preterism does not exist without appeals to extrabiblical writings which determine how prophecy is understood. The very name preterism tells you that.

The only other book needed is the book on hermeneutics. It is about how to understand the Bible, not preterism. It was written many years ago by Milton Terry in 1883.

 

[Right Divider]

I agree with the above, except for the following:

#1. - The Bible is/was not inspired. It was inerrantly produced by the process of inspiration. It is the authors who were inspired. The Bible is not breathed into; it was 'breathed out' by God by the Holy Spirit 'breathing in' to godly men the words of God.

#5. - Physical resurrection and personal bodily return but He will not come down to earth. Those who are alive at the time will rise to meet Him in the air. There being no further use for the physical universe, subsequently the elements will dissolve with fervent heat.
<cut>

It's really simple if you let the Bible be true and speak for itself.

Acts 1:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (1:10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (1:11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (1:12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

​

Zech 14:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(14:1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (14:2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (14:3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (14:4) ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. ​

Your problem is not rightly dividing Paul's prophecy (the catching away which you reference in your #5 response) and the prophecy of the LORD's return to Israel.

 

[Nang]

Stay tuned - Coming Soon: Clete destroys preterism

Clete is destroying himself with all his judgments against the saints . . .

 

[Right Divider]

Clete is destroying himself with all his judgments against the saints . . .

Would you like some cheese with that whine?