Is Calvinism Right?

Exegete

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Hello all! I'm new to the board and look foward to getting to know you. :)

When I was in college (10 plus years ago) I was introduced to Calvinism and accepted its teaching because I was convinced it was biblical. Sense then I have done some much more extensive study on the topic and found the system to be inaccurate both logically and biblically.

I would love to discuss this with someone who consider themselves Calvinistic and able to defend the system's tenets.

Is this the appropriate place to make that request? Thank you.
 

Turbo

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Welcome to TOL, Exegete.

Yes, this is an appropriate forum for this topic.
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Exegete


Any takers?

Sorry, you won't find a person on here more anti-calvinistic than me. Clete Pfeiffer will try and say differently but don't listen to him. :D

Although if you're interested in reading exceptional arguments for Open View (anti-Calvinistic as well as anti-Armininian) I highly recommend Clete's stuff. It's awesome!!

But I'm sure it won't be long before the takers come along. :)
 
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Nathon Detroit

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Re: Is Calvinism Right?

Originally posted by Exegete

Hello all! I'm new to the board and look foward to getting to know you. :)

When I was in college (10 plus years ago) I was introduced to Calvinism and accepted its teaching because I was convinced it was biblical. Sense then I have done some much more extensive study on the topic and found the system to be inaccurate both logically and biblically.

I would love to discuss this with someone who consider themselves Calvinistic and able to defend the system's tenets.

Is this the appropriate place to make that request? Thank you.
If you are not a Calvinist how would you describe yourself?
 

Exegete

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Non-Calvinist? or Christian? or Biblicist?

I'm not really Arminian, but I'm also not into the "Open" view.
 

billwald

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Calvin's "Institutes" is the most internally logical theology I have read.

It was slightly distorted after his death. <G>
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by Exegete

Non-Calvinist? or Christian? or Biblicist?

I'm not really Arminian, but I'm also not into the "Open" view.
What's left?
 

Sold Out

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Swanca99.....this is a description of Calvinism:

T – Total Depravity - Calvinists believe man is in complete rebellion to God, and by his free will CANNOT and will never make a decision for CHRIST even when presented with the GOSPEL. However, that is unscriptural. Whereas it is true that all men are in complete rebellion to God (See - Rom 3:10-12), it is not true that men cannot respond positively to the GOSPEL when it is presented to them. According to John 12:32, every man is drawn by the power of the GOSPEL and can be saved if he so chooses. That is why salvation is a “whosoever will.” (See - Rev 22:17 & Jn 3:14-16 & 4:14 & 11:25,26 & 12:46 & Acts 2:21 & 10:42,43 & 13:26 & Rom 9:33 & 10:9-11,13 & I Jn 5:1)

U – Unconditional election - Calvinists believe man obtains salvation because God choose him for salvation before the world began. They believe that God has chosen some people for heaven and the others to hell. However, that is unscriptural. According to Acts 2:36-40, Peter pleads with the Jews to “save yourselves” from the hell to come. Men do have a choice in salvation because it was offered to ALL (See - Mt 28:19 & Lk 2:10 & Jn 3:16 & II Pet 3:9). To say that God chooses some to go to heaven and others to go to hell is to breach the very nature of God (See - Ezk 18:23).

L – Limited Atonement - Calvinists believe CHRIST only died for those who would be chosen for salvation. However, that is unscriptural. According to John 1:29, John the Baptist proclaimed, “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the SIN (singular) of the world.” CHRIST died for the whole sin package. Salvation is not limited to a few, but is freely offered to ALL (See - I Jn 2:2 & II Cor 5:14,15,19 & I Tim 2:6 & 4:10 & Titus 2:11 & II Pet 3:9).

I – Irresistible grace - Calvinists believe man can do nothing to resist salvation if God has chosen him. However, that is unscriptural. According to Genesis 1:26, man is made in the image of God. Like God, man has a “mind” to process thoughts, a “heart” to stimulate those thoughts, and a “will” to activate those thoughts. If irresistible grace is true and man has absolutely no power to decide concerning salvation, then he was not made in the image of God. The problem with irresistible grace in Calvinism is that it is built on a misunderstanding of the doctrine of man. Man does have a choice in salvation. It is a part of his three-part nature (See - Mt 19:16-22 & Acts 26:19-28).


P – Perseverance of the saints - Calvinists believe that Christians will persevere to the end of their lives because their salvation is dependent upon God’s irresistible grace. However, that is unscriptural. According to II Tim 4:10, Demas, an earlier co-laborer of Paul’s, left the faith because of the allurement of the world. Obviously, Demas was not able to “persevere.” Whereas every Christian is eternally secure, not every Christian finishes his or her race. Even the great apostle Paul worried about finishing his race (See - I Cor 9:27) (See also - Acts 5:1-11 & I Cor 11:30 & I Jn 5:17,18).T -
 

swanca99

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Thanks, Sold Out.

But I'm wondering what Exegete means by a Calvinist.

Some consider simply a belief in individual election to be "Calvinism." Some consider those who buy the whole TULIP thing to be "HyperCalvinists" or "Extreme Calvinists."

I don't believe in Limited Atonement but I DO believe in the other 4 points. On that basis, some have refered to me as a "4-point Calvinist," some have refered to me as an "Arminian," and some have called me other things which are less kind (although not on this board...yet).

The term is used so differently that when somebody asks a question like Exegete did, I always feel I need to get THEIR definition of it.

But thanks...it looks like you put a lot of time into that and whenever it comes up again, we'll be able to say, "Look at Sold Out's post in that other thread."
 

Exegete

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I'm referring to TULIP. Some Calvinists differ on their view of the atonement, but if you hold to an idea that God only selected a particular number to save before time and passed over the rest, then you can pretty much call yourself a Calvinist.
 

God_Is_Truth

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Originally posted by Exegete

Non-Calvinist? or Christian? or Biblicist?

I'm not really Arminian, but I'm also not into the "Open" view.

do you believe that the future is settled (i.e. closed) in that all that is to come is set in stone and unchanging?
 

Exegete

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I believe the future is known by God, but only the past is set in that it has been determined. Foreknowing something doesn't determine it.
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Exegete

I believe the future is known by God, but only the past is set in that it has been determined. Foreknowing something doesn't determine it.

I'm having a little trouble following you. Are you saying that God sees the future but might change something He foresees?
 

Nathon Detroit

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Originally posted by Exegete

I believe the future is known by God, but only the past is set in that it has been determined. Foreknowing something doesn't determine it.
Do you think God's foreknowledge is exhaustive and perfect?
 

God_Is_Truth

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Originally posted by Knight

Do you think God's foreknowledge is exhaustive and perfect?

open theists believe in that you know. the difference is not in knowledge, but what that knowledge entails.
 

God_Is_Truth

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Originally posted by Exegete

I believe the future is known by God, but only the past is set in that it has been determined. Foreknowing something doesn't determine it.

how does God see the future? does he see it as complete and settled (in terms of what will or will not come to pass)? or does he see it as open and unsettled (in terms of what might or might not come to pass)?
 

swanca99

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Originally posted by Exegete

...but if you hold to an idea that God only selected a particular number to save before time and passed over the rest, then you can pretty much call yourself a Calvinist.

Then the answer to the question posed in your thread title is "Yes."

<8^)

Seriously, though, if it were that simple, we wouldn't have so many discussions on it.

If you read the Scriptures as they are, not as a theology textbook, what conclusions do you reach? That's what you should go with. You may reach different conclusions than I did. Sure, I could delve into theology textbooks and commentaries, and come up with all sorts of arguments, but so could those who don't believe in election (Wesley is the best I've seen at defending his position - he's quite eloquent and persuasive).

If you are a believer in Christ, you have eternal life, regardless of whether you believe you were elected to it from the foundation of the world or not.

If I believe I was elected to eternal life from the foundation of the world, that does not mean that I have eternal life without exercising saving faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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