ECT Imputed Righteousness you say? For what? Redemption or Salvation?

[Cross Reference]

If the “imputation” of righteousness gifted a man produces no benefit to God, what then can be his reward? Must not therefore a diligent seeking after God be that which “saves”?

 

[Truster]

The imputation of sin to the extent Messiah became sin for us necessitates the imputation of justness to the sinner. Otherwise the sinner will stand forgiven, but stand naked.

 

[Interplanner]

Credited righteousness for the debt of past sins, no matter what time in life, is the motivation to serve and honor God. That is how God set it up, although religion(s) turns this around, and thinks we can make God owe us.

So long as you deal with sin as debt one way, and sin as stain or sickness another way, you will be keeping the distinctions you need to make. I can't tell from your terms 'redemption' and 'salvation.' I use justification and transformation.

 

[Cross Reference]

The imputation of sin to the extent Messiah became sin for us necessitates the imputation of justness to the sinner. Otherwise the sinner will stand forgive, but stand naked.

That makes no sense.

 

[Interplanner]

That makes no sense.

right, the 2nd part is clear. the 1st is not great, but means that righteousness must be credited in order to handle the debt of sin.

 

[Cross Reference]

Credited righteousness for the debt of past sins,

Credited righteousness speaks of conditional righteousness which I agree with because it requires a repentent disposition for it to be received by the new birth by Christ as a "reward". It is a process to be sure, that will reveal sincerity for implementation. Once that is achieved, however, then what? Where does the redeemed one advance to? What is he purposed to advance unto? "You didn't choose Me. I chose you".

 

[Interplanner]

Credited righteousness speaks of conditional righteousness which I agree with because it requires a repentent disposition, a process for sure, that reveals sincerity to impliment it. Once that is achieved, however, then what? Where does the redeemed one advanced to? What is he purposed to advance unto?

Neither imputed thing is a personal experience or accomplishment. It is about our account with God. That's why it is about past sin, not about what we are doing right now. It is about debt. As was parables in Lk 7 and Mt 18, etc, that are very important about how we forgive others and why.

Imputation is a bookkeeping term like crediting or accounting and involves a 3rd party amount. A debtor is able to solve his debt with a creditor by a 3rd party benefactor gifting him an amount that solves the debt.

The mistake of the evil person in Mt 18's parable of the unforgiving steward (watch his language closely) was that he thought he was given MORE TIME TO REPAY. that made him a miserable person. He had no idea he had been forgiven; he thought it was "refinanced" debt he had to repay.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The mistake of the evil person in Mt 18's parable of the unforgiving steward (watch his language closely) was that he thought he was given MORE TIME TO REPAY. that made him a miserable person. He had no idea he had been forgiven; he thought it was "refinanced" debt he had to repay.

Made up.
Do you have a specific commentary that botches all parables?

 

[northwye]

"So long as you deal with sin as debt one way, and sin as stain or sickness another way, you will be keeping the distinctions you need to make. I can't tell from your terms 'redemption' and 'salvation.' I use justification and transformation."

Yes.

And the contemporary ekklesia in apostasy (II Thessalonians 2:3-12, Luke 13: 20-21, Matthew 24: 11,23, II Peter 2: 1-3, I John 2: 18-19, I John 4: 1-3, I Timothy 4: 1-3, II Timothy 3: 1-8, and II Timothy 4: 3-4 does not focus much on that transformation.

I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a brief mention of the αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis, points to a method by which the false prophets are able to change the message of Christ, so that transformation in Christ is not emphasized or made outstanding and important.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12: 2 transformed is interestingly from μεταμορφουσθε, metamorphousthe, Strong's Number 3339. metamorphoó, transform. It literally means to be metamorphosized. "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3: 3

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Colossians 1: 27

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5

To have the mind of Christ in you means to be transformed in him.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." Galatians 6: 15

The ceremonies of the Old Covenant did not spiritually transform anyone, but the Holy Spirit by Christ can transform you. "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' John 3: 5

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5: 17

 

[Truster]

That makes no sense.

I didn't expect you to understand:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of Elohim: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But the answer I gave is true and amen.

 

[Cross Reference]

Neither imputed thing is a personal experience or accomplishment.

And?? What's new?

It is about our account with God.

Which was in what condition that could not satisfy God?

That's why it is about past sin, not about what we are doing right now.

Really? The OT saints upon death descended into the abode of the righteous dead; Paradise. Remembering, only the righteous were allowed in and, they were NOT made righteous by God because the penalty for Adam's transgression had not yet been paid in full that would put teeth into his declaration: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) which was inpossible until Jesus went to the cross. Ergo, no more Paradise interim.

It is about debt.

It is about a better sacrifice for sin than the incomplete offerings of animals.

Imputation is a bookkeeping term like crediting or accounting and involves a 3rd party amount. A debtor is able to solve his debt with a creditor by a 3rd party benefactor gifting him an amount that solves the debt.

While it pays A debt,[personal sins] it does NOT solve the reason for the debt [Adam's transgression] which is not able to be satisfied by anyone except the offended [God]. Enter Jesus, the Creditor.

I trust you now know why the reason for Paradise.. . God's holding tank for those OT saints awaiting redemption.

 

[Cross Reference]

I didn't expect you to understand:

You guessed rightly. One star for you.

 

[Cross Reference]

"So long as you deal with sin as debt one way, and sin as stain or sickness another way, you will be keeping the distinctions you need to make. I can't tell from your terms 'redemption' and 'salvation.' I use justification and transformation."

Yes.

And the contemporary ekklesia in apostasy (II Thessalonians 2:3-12, Luke 13: 20-21, Matthew 24: 11,23, II Peter 2: 1-3, I John 2: 18-19, I John 4: 1-3, I Timothy 4: 1-3, II Timothy 3: 1-8, and II Timothy 4: 3-4 does not focus much on that transformation.

I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a brief mention of the αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis, points to a method by which the false prophets are able to change the message of Christ, so that transformation in Christ is not emphasized or made outstanding and important.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12: 2 transformed is interestingly from μεταμορφουσθε, metamorphousthe, Strong's Number 3339. metamorphoó, transform. It literally means to be metamorphosized. "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3: 3

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Colossians 1: 27

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5

To have the mind of Christ in you means to be transformed in him.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." Galatians 6: 15

The ceremonies of the Old Covenant did not spiritually transform anyone, but the Holy Spirit by Christ can transform you. "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' John 3: 5

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5: 17

I am saved. Thank you.

Moving on: Jesus died and redeemed all mankind. When one realizes his redemption his option is to either ignore/reject it OR call upon Jesus Christ to saved him, which would make his being redeemed effective as of that date.

 

[Truster]

I am saved. Thank you.

Moving on: Jesus died and redeemed all mankind. When one realizes his redemption his option is to either ignore/reject it OR call upon Jesus Christ to saved him, which would make his being redeemed effective as of that date.

Like all those that say "I am Saved" you never give an account of conversion. The reason being is that your account will show you to be a fraud. Try starting with what the word conversion actually means. Not from a secular dictionary, but from the language of scripture.

 

[Cross Reference]

Like all those that say "I am Saved" you never give an account of conversion. The reason being is that your account will show you to be a fraud. Try starting with what the word conversion actually means. Not from a secular dictionary, but from the language of scripture.

And I don't intend to let you bring me down to your level.

If you were able to understand what I have written the many years of being on this forum, you would know "I am saved". However, something drives you in the wrong direction. Probably pride amd self pity. I will let you figger out that one. And arrogance?? Without question. Enjoy your "star".

 

[Truster]

And I don't intend to let you bring me down to your level.

If you were able to understand what I have written the many years of being on this forum, you would know "I am saved". However, something drives you in the wrong direction. Probably pride amd self pity. I will let you figger out that one. And arrogance?? Without question. Enjoy your "star".

I have read some of what you post and I can categorically say that you have never been converted. No converted man remains as blind to the truth as you are.

 

[Danoh]

Regarding your post repeated in the post below, northwye...

Spoiler

"So long as you deal with sin as debt one way, and sin as stain or sickness another way, you will be keeping the distinctions you need to make. I can't tell from your terms 'redemption' and 'salvation.' I use justification and transformation."

Yes.

And the contemporary ekklesia in apostasy (II Thessalonians 2:3-12, Luke 13: 20-21, Matthew 24: 11,23, II Peter 2: 1-3, I John 2: 18-19, I John 4: 1-3, I Timothy 4: 1-3, II Timothy 3: 1-8, and II Timothy 4: 3-4 does not focus much on that transformation.

I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a brief mention of the αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis, points to a method by which the false prophets are able to change the message of Christ, so that transformation in Christ is not emphasized or made outstanding and important.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12: 2 transformed is interestingly from μεταμορφουσθε, metamorphousthe, Strong's Number 3339. metamorphoó, transform. It literally means to be metamorphosized. "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3: 3

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Colossians 1: 27

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5

To have the mind of Christ in you means to be transformed in him.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." Galatians 6: 15

The ceremonies of the Old Covenant did not spiritually transform anyone, but the Holy Spirit by Christ can transform you. "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' John 3: 5

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5: 17

Just because you don't see evidence of that transformation in most of the so called MAD Dispies on here in their too often grace-less response and or condoning of same from their own towards anyone who challenges, or even besmirches their views, does not mean the transformation process is not taught nor walked in by many a MAD outside of TOL.

Case in point, this video, of MANY like it.

Title: Will I Ever Stop Sinning As A Christian?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9b3FGwwAJ5w

Nevertheless, northwye, Rom. 5:8

 

[Cross Reference]

I have read some of what you post and I can categorically say that you have never been converted. No converted man remains as blind to the truth as you are.

So be it.